Car Snobs - I Despise Them

[skyrover]

I drive a battered old jeep..

Do I get asked why?... yes all the time.

Because I want to.

[amgmcqueen]

RobM77 said:

In over 20 years of driving and mixing with a wide range of people from broke binmen to multi-millionaires, the only type of snobs I've [i]ever[\i] come across are the tiresomely vocal 'reverse snobs', who bang on and on about BMWs, Porsches and Ferraris and sing the praises of their Ford or Vauxhall. I have spoken to and befriended lots of supercar and prestige car owners and have genuinely never heard them look down on other cars in a snobby way.

Reverse snob...?

[RobM77]

amgmcqueen said:

RobM77 said:

In over 20 years of driving and mixing with a wide range of people from broke binmen to multi-millionaires, the only type of snobs I've [i]ever[\i] come across are the tiresomely vocal 'reverse snobs', who bang on and on about BMWs, Porsches and Ferraris and sing the praises of their Ford or Vauxhall. I have spoken to and befriended lots of supercar and prestige car owners and have genuinely never heard them look down on other cars in a snobby way.

Reverse snob...?

Sorry, it's probably not too common a phrase. Strictly, the definition of a snob is someone who believes their taste is superior to other people's, so it works both ways, but usually people mean someone with expensive tastes belittling cheap things. The reverse of that is, in my opinion, a far more common form of snobbery. In the car world this would be someone with a Ford who despises BMWs, or someone with an MX5 who despises Porsches.

[DanL]

RobM77 said:

Sorry, it's probably not too common a phrase. Strictly, the definition of a snob is someone who believes their taste is superior to other people's, so it works both ways, but usually people mean someone with expensive tastes belittling cheap things. The reverse of that is, in my opinion, a far more common form of snobbery. In the car world this would be someone with a Ford who despises BMWs, or someone with an MX5 who despises Porsches.

"Inverse snobbery" is the phrase you're looking for (he says, looking down on RobM77 ).

[RobM77]

DanL said:

RobM77 said:

Sorry, it's probably not too common a phrase. Strictly, the definition of a snob is someone who believes their taste is superior to other people's, so it works both ways, but usually people mean someone with expensive tastes belittling cheap things. The reverse of that is, in my opinion, a far more common form of snobbery. In the car world this would be someone with a Ford who despises BMWs, or someone with an MX5 who despises Porsches.

"Inverse snobbery" is the phrase you're looking for (he says, looking down on RobM77 ).

I hear 'reverse snobbery' more often, but yes, I have heard 'inverse' used too

[lyonspride]

RobM77 said:

The reverse of that is, in my opinion, a far more common form of snobbery. In the car world this would be someone with a Ford who despises BMWs, or someone with an MX5 who despises Porsches.

Yeah and that's usually the first thing people say to me, but it's not the cars I hate it's the self-entitled drivers. I'm sure they love to think everyone is just jealous, but no unfortunately it's because they drive and park like complete tits.

I literally have £15k sitting in my bank account, i've also got £700 a month disposable income, sometime I look at what I could get on lease/pcp, it's honestly ridiculous.... But I don't want to be associated with that type of driver.

I drive a Ford because it's cheap and I have much better things to be spending money on (like getting mortgage free before I turn 40). I don't give a flying one about what people think of me based on my chosen transport.
Now I don't care if people feel the need to buy these cars and/or put themselves into debt doing it, that is their choice, but certain cars just turn certain people into complete and utter self-entitled tw@s, who in turn justify (to themselves) brake checking a bus full of school children, cutting across 4 lanes at high speed to leave a motorway and other bad behaviour by brushing people off as "just jealous".

Perhaps some people are jealous, but I think most of them simply think that German saloon boy is driving like a to make sure everyone notices him, much like a child that just learnt how to pull a wheelie on his BMX.

[PixelpeepS3]

Just going to put a slightly different slant on things.

Sometimes its important from a work prospective to look successful in order to be successful.

If you are a salesman and drive to a customer site in a 20 year old fiesta that is a bit battered some might make the assumption your product is not that great because you 'can't be making a very good living if you can't afford a better car'

thank god i've never worked in sales

[RobM77]

lyonspride said:

RobM77 said:

The reverse of that is, in my opinion, a far more common form of snobbery. In the car world this would be someone with a Ford who despises BMWs, or someone with an MX5 who despises Porsches.

Yeah and that's usually the first thing people say to me, but it's not the cars I hate it's the self-entitled drivers. I'm sure they love to think everyone is just jealous, but no unfortunately it's because they drive and park like complete tits.

I literally have £15k sitting in my bank account, i've also got £700 a month disposable income, sometime I look at what I could get on lease/pcp, it's honestly ridiculous.... But I don't want to be associated with that type of driver.

I drive a Ford because it's cheap and I have much better things to be spending money on (like getting mortgage free before I turn 40). I don't give a flying one about what people think of me based on my chosen transport.
Now I don't care if people feel the need to buy these cars and/or put themselves into debt doing it, that is their choice, but certain cars just turn certain people into complete and utter self-entitled tw@s, who in turn justify (to themselves) brake checking a bus full of school children, cutting across 4 lanes at high speed to leave a motorway and other bad behaviour by brushing people off as "just jealous".

Perhaps some people are jealous, but I think most of them simply think that German saloon boy is driving like a to make sure everyone notices him, much like a child that just learnt how to pull a wheelie on his BMX.

If you don't mind me saying so, that sounds like simple superstition.

Could you honestly say that if you kept a log of drivers doing stupid things that the percentage in each make of car would be different to the percentages of what's on the road? Perhaps 'German saloons' are more common than you think, which is why you see a lot of idiotic behaviour by their drivers? I do a lot of miles, mostly in rush hour, so I see a lot of cars and a lot of drivers and I have never noticed any correlation between driving standards and make of car. Think about the logic: you appear to be suggesting that when I drive my BMW (or my Dad, or any of my friends who own BMWs) I somehow drive differently to when I drive, for example, my wife's Honda, or perhaps the years on end I owned Toyotas. I find that rather implausible, the notion that if you took a Mondeo driver and put him in a 3 series that he'd change his driving to be less considerate whilst he was in the BMW and then switch back again when he drove the Mondeo. Surely consideration for others and driving ability is something innate to the individual that they take with them no matter what type of car they're driving?

Edited to add: I follow your logic on expenditure completely. We all have a raft of things to spend our money on, and it just depends on our priorities. I suspect quite a high percentage of people driving cheap ordinary cars have the money for a flashier car, but choose to spend their money in other areas. My daily driver is 7 years old, has done 95k miles and cost me £6k (it's a BMW by the way...), but I also own a racing car, two bikes, a boat, windsurfing stuff and a fancy racing SUP board, but I don't own a watch and spend a tiny amount of money on clothes. We all make our own choices.

Edited by RobM77 on Friday 12th January 17:45

[skyrover]

PixelpeepS3 said:

Just going to put a slightly different slant on things.

Sometimes its important from a work prospective to look successful in order to be successful.

If you are a salesman and drive to a customer site in a 20 year old fiesta that is a bit battered some might make the assumption your product is not that great because you 'can't be making a very good living if you can't afford a better car'

thank god i've never worked in sales

I suppose it depends on what your selling.

It's never okay to look scruffy.. but even something old and oddball should be fine as long as it's well presented.

[theboss]

TooMany2cvs said:

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Not free, but it may work out a chunk cheaper. The VAT on the lease is reclaimed, and the money is before corp tax and/or income tax are deducted. OTOH, it then falls under co.car BiK tax.

Only half the VAT is reclaimable if the car is used personally, plus the tax and NIC charges arising from the P11d value would be eye watering. The only way it works out cheaper is if you convince HMRC it’s a pool car... good luck with that!

[lyonspride]

RobM77 said:

If you don't mind me saying so, that sounds like simple superstition, perhaps driven by inverse snobbery.

Could you honestly say that if you kept a log of drivers doing stupid things that the percentage in each make of car would be different to the percentages of what's on the road? Perhaps 'German saloons' are more common than you think, which is why you see a lot of idiotic behaviour by their drivers? I do a lot of miles, mostly in rush hour, so I see a lot of cars and a lot of drivers and I have never noticed any correlation between driving standards and make of car. Think about the logic: you appear to be suggesting that when I drive my BMW (or my Dad, or any of my friends who own BMWs) I somehow drive differently to when I drive, for example, my wife's Honda, or perhaps the years on end I owned Toyotas. I find that rather implausible, the notion that if you took a Mondeo driver and put him in a 3 series that he'd change his driving to be less considerate whilst he was in the BMW and then switch back again when he drove the Mondeo. Surely consideration for others and driving ability is something innate to the individual that they take with them no matter what type of car they're driving?

What I always say its that certain cars enable poor behaviour in certain people and those people are disproportionately attracted to that type of car. Thus the steretypes become true.
When somebody begins to think they are a cut above everyone else, they feel a false sense of power and power corrupts, turns people who seek it into monsters.

I'm very careful about overtaking slow drivers in German cars, or so called prestige vehicles like Range Rover and Jag, because it doesn't just upset them, it sends them into fits of rage..... Like somebody has disrespected their "authoritah" and must pay the ultimate price.

BMW for example use the marketing slogan "ultimate driving machine" (which is a bit of a joke to be honest), but it's actually very clever, it plays into the false superiority thing which they know sells their cars. They do at least fit driver aids galore to ensure their drivers don't kill themselves instantly.

What i'm not saying is that the stereotypes always apply, just that it's uncanny just how often they do.

[RobM77]

lyonspride said:

RobM77 said:

If you don't mind me saying so, that sounds like simple superstition, perhaps driven by inverse snobbery.

Could you honestly say that if you kept a log of drivers doing stupid things that the percentage in each make of car would be different to the percentages of what's on the road? Perhaps 'German saloons' are more common than you think, which is why you see a lot of idiotic behaviour by their drivers? I do a lot of miles, mostly in rush hour, so I see a lot of cars and a lot of drivers and I have never noticed any correlation between driving standards and make of car. Think about the logic: you appear to be suggesting that when I drive my BMW (or my Dad, or any of my friends who own BMWs) I somehow drive differently to when I drive, for example, my wife's Honda, or perhaps the years on end I owned Toyotas. I find that rather implausible, the notion that if you took a Mondeo driver and put him in a 3 series that he'd change his driving to be less considerate whilst he was in the BMW and then switch back again when he drove the Mondeo. Surely consideration for others and driving ability is something innate to the individual that they take with them no matter what type of car they're driving?

What I always say its that certain cars enable poor behaviour in certain people and those people are disproportionately attracted to that type of car. Thus the steretypes become true.
When somebody begins to think they are a cut above everyone else, they feel a false sense of power and power corrupts, turns people who seek it into monsters.

I'm very careful about overtaking slow drivers in German cars, or so called prestige vehicles like Range Rover and Jag, because it doesn't just upset them, it sends them into fits of rage..... Like somebody has disrespected their "authoritah" and must pay the ultimate price.

BMW for example use the marketing slogan "ultimate driving machine" (which is a bit of a joke to be honest), but it's actually very clever, it plays into the false superiority thing which they know sells their cars. They do at least fit driver aids galore to ensure their drivers don't kill themselves instantly.

What i'm not saying is that the stereotypes always apply, just that it's uncanny just how often they do.

Again, do you have any evidence at all for this? It all seems highly unlikely and pure superstition. As for 'driver aids galore', what do you think BMWs have that most other cars don't?!

[av185]

RobM77 said:

the risk on this sort of investment in the short term is quite high (10% of that time period say declining house prices). Houses make a lot of sense in the long term

Edited by RobM77 on Friday 12th January 12:38

Most short term investments carry high risk though.

Property, cars, stock market, funds, investment and unit trusts, Bitcoin etc etc...witness tanking prices only yesterday.

Back to the subject of cars and to give a perfect e.g. this friend of mine recently bought a 458 Speciale at the top of the market paying over £300k which now seems overpriced for even such an iconic car and guaranteed future classic by virtue of last of the n.a. V8s.etc.

I would currently see the car at £250k no more. So short term a potential loss of £50k but long term, if he keeps it that long perhaps 4 years plus these cars could well be realistically £600 to £750k along with the 997 GT3 RS 4.0. which is in a similar category.

As with many investments it is not timing the market which is often impossible but time in the market.

[Tempest_5]

I once lived in a place where I felt judged by the car I drove, part of the London commuter belt. There was a feeling of people looking at you as if to say "I'm not talking to you because your car is not good/expensive enough". I moved out and now live near somewhere perceived to be posher but it's not got that element of snobbery about it.

If people feel that way about you then they are probably not worth talking to anyway.

In an anti snob sort way one of my best drives ever was an old Fiat Uno diesel I used for commuting when I lived in the snobby place. It didn't have the handling of my sporty cars I've had over the years (Westfield/Alfa GTV/Minis/VR6 Golf) but that was the fun of it. Awesome amounts of body roll at minimal speed in the corners, this after going around everything flatish in the others. If anyone got too close up your chuff in the Uno you just dumped it a gear or two and floored it. The large cloud of soot produced soon got them to back off.

[Mr2Mike]

RobM77 said:

Again, do you have any evidence at all for this? It all seems highly unlikely and pure superstition. As for 'driver aids galore', what do you think BMWs have that most other cars don't?!

RWD.

[lyonspride]

Mr2Mike said:

RobM77 said:

Again, do you have any evidence at all for this? It all seems highly unlikely and pure superstition. As for 'driver aids galore', what do you think BMWs have that most other cars don't?!

RWD.

RWD and people who can't drive = always a bad combination.

[XMT]

get new friends

[greenarrow]

RobM77 said:

lyonspride said:

RobM77 said:

If you don't mind me saying so, that sounds like simple superstition, perhaps driven by inverse snobbery.

Could you honestly say that if you kept a log of drivers doing stupid things that the percentage in each make of car would be different to the percentages of what's on the road? Perhaps 'German saloons' are more common than you think, which is why you see a lot of idiotic behaviour by their drivers? I do a lot of miles, mostly in rush hour, so I see a lot of cars and a lot of drivers and I have never noticed any correlation between driving standards and make of car. Think about the logic: you appear to be suggesting that when I drive my BMW (or my Dad, or any of my friends who own BMWs) I somehow drive differently to when I drive, for example, my wife's Honda, or perhaps the years on end I owned Toyotas. I find that rather implausible, the notion that if you took a Mondeo driver and put him in a 3 series that he'd change his driving to be less considerate whilst he was in the BMW and then switch back again when he drove the Mondeo. Surely consideration for others and driving ability is something innate to the individual that they take with them no matter what type of car they're driving?

What I always say its that certain cars enable poor behaviour in certain people and those people are disproportionately attracted to that type of car. Thus the steretypes become true.
When somebody begins to think they are a cut above everyone else, they feel a false sense of power and power corrupts, turns people who seek it into monsters.

I'm very careful about overtaking slow drivers in German cars, or so called prestige vehicles like Range Rover and Jag, because it doesn't just upset them, it sends them into fits of rage..... Like somebody has disrespected their "authoritah" and must pay the ultimate price.

BMW for example use the marketing slogan "ultimate driving machine" (which is a bit of a joke to be honest), but it's actually very clever, it plays into the false superiority thing which they know sells their cars. They do at least fit driver aids galore to ensure their drivers don't kill themselves instantly.

What i'm not saying is that the stereotypes always apply, just that it's uncanny just how often they do.

Again, do you have any evidence at all for this? It all seems highly unlikely and pure superstition. As for 'driver aids galore', what do you think BMWs have that most other cars don't?!

There's no smoke without fire as they say. I work as a contractor in financial services and a fellow contractor on my team drives a BMW 335i cab. He really does look down on pretty much anything other than a BMW. When I bought my Insignia, he said "so, you don't mind not getting to work then..."...i.e the car's going to break down all the time. He was partly joking but being partly serious.

I also really do think certain sorts of cars bring out different behaviour in people, so yes your Mondeo (or Insignia) man may well drive differently in a BMW than in his Mondeo. A BMW is set up to be a drivers car....lovely RWD handling, sporty feeling steering, slick gearchange, responsive engine etc, so it positively encourages enthusiastic push on driving, something my Insignia sadly doesn't!!! I also drive an old MX-5 and I can tell you that on the rare occasions someone tries to race me or harry me at speed, its nearly always someone in a BMW, usually a 1 series diesel......is that superstition? I don't think so.

...but I wouldn't say any of it bothers me like it does the OP. I love all sorts of cars, from Fords and Vauxhalls to BMWs. I was only thinking this morning this whilst looking at an F10 M5 in a car park alongside a 2007 Vauxhall Astra Coupe. Loved the BMW but also thought, what a sharp looking car the old Astra was!!!

[RobM77]

Mr2Mike said:

RobM77 said:

Again, do you have any evidence at all for this? It all seems highly unlikely and pure superstition. As for 'driver aids galore', what do you think BMWs have that most other cars don't?!

RWD.

I was talking about electronic driver aids - that poster said that BMWs have more aids than other cars so the owners don't crash, which is completely untrue.

[Wills2]

greenarrow said:

I also drive an old MX-5 and I can tell you that on the rare occasions someone tries to race me or harry me at speed, its nearly always someone in a BMW, usually a 1 series diesel......is that superstition? I don't think so.

For every bellend in a BMW there is one in a Vauxhall or Ford etc.....I've lost count of the number of people who have tried to race/harry or attempt to drive into my boot whilst I'm driving my M3.

Some people are bad drivers the car is just whatever they happen to drive, so yes it is superstition or perhaps more correctly supposition on your part.