Lotus Senator

[aaron_2000]

Just come from the Lotus Carlton thread, does anyone know if this is real? I think it actually looks better than the Carlton.

http://forum.retro-rides.org/thread/190122/1991-va...

[Jimmy Recard]

It depends on what you mean by real. It is a real car.

However it’s still a mix of a Vauxhall/Opel Senator and a Lotus Carlton rather than a complete car from the Lotus factory

Edited by Jimmy Recard on Sunday 14th January 19:53

[SimonTheSailor]

Reading the article it says its not. Its a re-creation.

[aaron_2000]

Thought so, looks fantastic though, probably a pretty good car for £16k.

[J4CKO]

TVR Moneypit said:

About 7 years ago when I used to frequent the Omega forums, there was a guy on there who claimed he used to work for the Opel design department in Russelheim, who, incidentally, had a Senator Lotus which he claimed was one of a handful of factory prototypes.

Allegedly, Vauxhall / Opel were going to make the Lotus Senator before changing their mind and making the Carlton.

Whether the one in the OP's link is one of these super rare factory originals, I don't know, but by all accounts, they do exist, abelt in very, very limited numbers. I'd have assumed that the prototype Lotus Senators would all have been LHD?

Sort of makes sense a the Senator was the poshest Vauxhall despite being Carlton based, so would stand to reason that they would pick the Senator as the base, at least initially, but the Senator was a barge and not sporty, the logical base was really the Carlton as it already had the GSI model, my brother in law had a Carlton Diplomat with a C changer no less, it came up for sale and I so wanted it but couldnt raise the cash, dark grey with BBS sort of style alloys, quite pokey for a 2.0 as well.

[NotNormal]

TVR Moneypit said:

About 7 years ago when I used to frequent the Omega forums, there was a guy on there who claimed he used to work for the Opel design department in Russelheim, who, incidentally, had a Senator Lotus which he claimed was one of a handful of factory prototypes.

I'd quite happily go as far to call total BS on that story

TVR Moneypit said:

Allegedly, Vauxhall / Opel were going to make the Lotus Senator before changing their mind and making the Carlton.

Correct, but the decision to change to the Carlton was made way before prototypes were built.

TVR Moneypit said:

Whether the one in the OP's link is one of these super rare factory originals,

No it definately is not.

[Cold]

The Lotus Senator never got further than the drawing board. It was the initial and preferred idea that was proposed by Kimberley, Eaton and Thomson but it was eventually felt that the Senator wasn't well known enough to produce the required halo effect across the rest of the Opel/Vauxhall range and the idea was subsequently dropped for the Carlton.

Thomson's original Senator sketches lifted from Ian Adcock's excellent book on the Lotus Carlton:

[NotNormal]

I'm not saying you made it up, but what I am saying is this persons story you read on a forum is simply not accurate.

That's why I commented on this thread because the thing is with internet forums is false info suddenly gets read as "fact" and gets banded about as if it could be true forever more.

I'm just nipping it in the bud and calling it out and making sure people reading stick to actual facts.

No intention to slurr on yourself

[saaby93]

The engine

[skeeterm5]

..... and this is a proper LC engine bay, sorry it isn't sparkling clean but I do actually drive it

[saaby93]

ok but bearing in mind the other is a Senator prototype

The battery
The extra piece of gubbins in front of the bulkhead

The wiper positions

[B'stard Child]

The bit that always grates on me is the front end



The senator grill doesn't work with the lotus bumper

[Cold]

saaby93 said:

ok but bearing in mind the other is a Senator prototype

The battery
The extra piece of gubbins in front of the bulkhead

The wiper positions

Not sure what you're trying to suggest here. The Vauxhall Senator and Vauxhall Carlton were very similar in construction and shared a lot of key components between them. The engine bays were a very similar layout.
The bitsa/mongrel car featured on that website uses an engine from an LC along with other items.

[Jimmy Recard]

Cold said:

Not sure what you're trying to suggest here. The Vauxhall Senator and Vauxhall Carlton were very similar in construction and shared a lot of key components between them. The engine bays were a very similar layout.
The bitsa/mongrel car featured on that website uses an engine from an LC along with other items.

Yep. The Senator is little more than a lengthened Carlton, for the purposes of discussing mechanical layout

A manual 3.0 CD 24-valve Senator

[B'stard Child]

Jimmy Recard said:

Cold said:

Not sure what you're trying to suggest here. The Vauxhall Senator and Vauxhall Carlton were very similar in construction and shared a lot of key components between them. The engine bays were a very similar layout.
The bitsa/mongrel car featured on that website uses an engine from an LC along with other items.

Yep. The Senator is little more than a lengthened Carlton, for the purposes of discussing mechanical layout

A manual 3.0 CD 24-valve Senator

The roof line is lengthened the wheel base is the same

You can fit a Senator boot lid on a Carlton and vicki verki

Senator Bonnet will fit a Carlton and vicki verki

Senator propshaft (auto or manual) will fit a Carlton (auto or manual) *manual fit manual auto fit auto obviously

[droopsnoot]

Cold said:

The Lotus Senator never got further than the drawing board. It was the initial and preferred idea that was proposed by Kimberley, Eaton and Thomson but it was eventually felt that the Senator wasn't well known enough to produce the required halo effect across the rest of the Opel/Vauxhall range and the idea was subsequently dropped for the Carlton.

Thomson's original Senator sketches lifted from Ian Adcock's excellent book on the Lotus Carlton:

I have that book somewhere, I must dig it out and have a read again. I thought the reason they went with the Carlton vs. the Senator was that the Senator was being phased out and by the time the Lotus version would be ready, it would almost be at end of life.

[J4CKO]

Sort of reminds me of,

[NickGibbs]

NotNormal said:

I'm not saying you made it up, but what I am saying is this persons story you read on a forum is simply not accurate.

That's why I commented on this thread because the thing is with internet forums is false info suddenly gets read as "fact" and gets banded about as if it could be true forever more.

I'm just nipping it in the bud and calling it out and making sure people reading stick to actual facts.

No intention to slurr on yourself

Gotta present your bona fides if you're saying 'simply not accurate'. Eg connection with Opel. This is as much true for someone calling BS as it is for someone asking us to believe something.

[B'stard Child]

droopsnoot said:

Cold said:

The Lotus Senator never got further than the drawing board. It was the initial and preferred idea that was proposed by Kimberley, Eaton and Thomson but it was eventually felt that the Senator wasn't well known enough to produce the required halo effect across the rest of the Opel/Vauxhall range and the idea was subsequently dropped for the Carlton.

Thomson's original Senator sketches lifted from Ian Adcock's excellent book on the Lotus Carlton:

I have that book somewhere, I must dig it out and have a read again. I thought the reason they went with the Carlton vs. the Senator was that the Senator was being phased out and by the time the Lotus version would be ready, it would almost be at end of life.

Senator production continued after Carlton production due to the Police services in the Uk ordering a whole bunch of 24v Senators. The model life of both Senators and Carltons was due to end with the introduction of the new Opel/Vauxhall Omega in beginning of 1994

[Dave Hedgehog]

J4CKO said:

Sort of reminds me of,

in the same way this reminds me of a Zonda