A Case Study in Being a Bellend
Discussion
Nanook said:
Ninja59 said:
Because the height of the vehicle will show or hide more of the rear tyres.
What?!The 'rule' states that you're supposed to be able to see the back tyres, and some tarmac behind them. It doesn't matter if the car is 12 inches or 12 feet tall, the tyres will be the same distance in front of you.
To be able to see the back tyres requires that you can see past the bodywork.
If the car is tall and has short rear bodywork (for example, a 4x4 designed for offroad stuff) then you can practically be right behind it and still see the rear tyres. This is because of a large departure angle circa 40º.
Example:
Compare with a low slung sports car with long bodywork behind the wheels, like a radical (circa 2" ground clearance), which has a departure angle of about 5º.
Imagine how much further back you have to get just to see the rear tyres. That's what I'm talking about.
May I suggest that the OP's thread title has not the bail on the head, as this thread could very well turn into such a case study as there have been quite a number of bell end contributors.
10 minutes wait? I'd have had the handbrake on, in neutral and engine off for a long time. Which would also have switched off the headlights. Don't have auto hold, or stop start, but do have an automatic. It's not much effort in order to have a bit of consideration for others.
10 minutes wait? I'd have had the handbrake on, in neutral and engine off for a long time. Which would also have switched off the headlights. Don't have auto hold, or stop start, but do have an automatic. It's not much effort in order to have a bit of consideration for others.
Nanook said:
I'm not sure what you drive, but in my car, the limiting factor in being able to see the spot where the rear tyres on the car in front are touching the tarmac, is my own car.
That certainly provides a consistent minimum distance for most stuff, but for stuff with a very long/low overhang, so a very small departure angle, it would still apply.Vanishingly rare, though...
Nanook said:
CraigyMc said:
Dude.
To be able to see the back tyres requires that you can see past the bodywork.
If the car is tall and has short rear bodywork (for example, a 4x4 designed for offroad stuff) then you can practically be right behind it and still see the rear tyres. This is because of a large departure angle circa 40º.
Example:
Compare with a low slung sports car with long bodywork behind the wheels, like a radical (circa 2" ground clearance), which has a departure angle of about 5º.
Imagine how much further back you have to get just to see the rear tyres. That's what I'm talking about.
Dude. To be able to see the back tyres requires that you can see past the bodywork.
If the car is tall and has short rear bodywork (for example, a 4x4 designed for offroad stuff) then you can practically be right behind it and still see the rear tyres. This is because of a large departure angle circa 40º.
Example:
Compare with a low slung sports car with long bodywork behind the wheels, like a radical (circa 2" ground clearance), which has a departure angle of about 5º.
Imagine how much further back you have to get just to see the rear tyres. That's what I'm talking about.
I'm not sure what you drive, but in my car, the limiting factor in being able to see the spot where the rear tyres on the car in front are touching the tarmac, is my own car.
Have you ever sat in a car and thought about this? Or do you drive a FC Landy?
ks for the reasons given.andrewparker said:
Don’t cars with auto hold apply the brake lights when stationary?
Plus, 10 minutes at a level crossing?
If you're expressing disbelief that you can get stuck for 10 minutes at a crossing, try Bramley in Hampshire... https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.3305667,-1.06058...Plus, 10 minutes at a level crossing?
The lights come on, the barriers drop. It's a fairly high-speed line, so train stopping distances can be massive. Big time gap to the first train then. Here it comes! Hoorah! "Can we go now?" Nope. That was the express heading south. Now we wait for the stopping service heading to Basingstoke. That arrives, and stops. The track behind it is clear while it waits at the platform, so why can't we have the barriers up? "Ah. Well Sir, that's because now the northbound express is due." This arrives, and blasts through the station at silly speed. Surely the barrier will lift now? No. No it won't. Because now the northbound stopping service is due from Basingstoke. That arrives, and stops. The barriers remain firmly down until it's passengers have all boarded or alighted, then it crawls out of the station across the crossing. Only now do the barriers raise, and oh boy! If you weren't first in the queue when they lifted, abandon any hope you had of making up a bit of time on these lovely rural roads, because you can bet your life that Granny Bloody Dryden was first in the queue in her 1997 Vauxhall Corsa (one careful owner from new) and she's adamant the twenty is, indeed, plenty...
It is what it is. The trouble is it's not far either way to Basingstoke and Reading, so there's plenty of opportunity for faster trains to get ahead of slower ones, yet in terms of time, they're spaced pretty close together. It's also a fairly busy line, with Virgin trains up to the Midlands and back, plus local SouthWest Trains (now South Western) stopping services. I often cycle that way, and I have about an 80% hit-rate with the gates being closed. It's a pain in the rump, and although there's a way around it, driving/riding up to the bridge up the line, then back down again, it's all very narrow roads filled with impatient idiots hooning around because they're frustrated by the delay at the crossing.
Still don't believe it's ten minutes at a time?
http://www.basingstokeobserver.co.uk/residents-rag...
The Basingstoke Observer said:
...A total of 211 trains use the crossing... ...each day... ...often passing at 75mph... ...The Bramley level crossing’s frequent use means that the barriers are down for an average of 28 minutes for every hour, causing constant delays for motorists and pedestrians alike as a result.
http://www.bramleypc.co.uk/en/village-directory/65Bramley parish Council said:
In case you hadn’t noticed, the Bramley level crossing gates seem increasingly to be down more than they are up, meaning that drivers and pedestrians have to wait for anything up to 10 minutes (it just seems longer), while the train comes slowly to a halt in the station, or 2 or 3 trains go through.
When the gates go up they quickly come down again having let just a few vehicles across. Not to mention traffic waiting to turn into Bramley Lane or into the Garage or Bakery, holding traffic up even further. A recent survey showed that the barriers are down for an average of 38 minutes out of every hour!
I'm guessing that the 'average delay' surveys don't include the couple of recent times where the barriers malfunctioned, and get stuck in the 'down' position for more than an hour at a time. A nightmare for the repair crews, as they have to battle past the long queues of traffic just to get to the job.When the gates go up they quickly come down again having let just a few vehicles across. Not to mention traffic waiting to turn into Bramley Lane or into the Garage or Bakery, holding traffic up even further. A recent survey showed that the barriers are down for an average of 38 minutes out of every hour!
Network Rail claim it's getting too much road traffic using it as a "rat run" and have proposed a closure plan. The only workable alternative would be a road bridge, though, as the local roads couldn't cope with the amount of traffic that currently uses the crossing.
FiF said:
10 minutes wait? I'd have had the handbrake on, in neutral and engine off for a long time. Which would also have switched off the headlights. Don't have auto hold, or stop start, but do have an automatic. It's not much effort in order to have a bit of consideration for others.
How do you know it's going to be a 10 wait ?Nanook said:
CraigyMc said:
Dude.
To be able to see the back tyres requires that you can see past the bodywork.
If the car is tall and has short rear bodywork (for example, a 4x4 designed for offroad stuff) then you can practically be right behind it and still see the rear tyres. This is because of a large departure angle circa 40º.
Example:
Compare with a low slung sports car with long bodywork behind the wheels, like a radical (circa 2" ground clearance), which has a departure angle of about 5º.
Imagine how much further back you have to get just to see the rear tyres. That's what I'm talking about.
Dude. To be able to see the back tyres requires that you can see past the bodywork.
If the car is tall and has short rear bodywork (for example, a 4x4 designed for offroad stuff) then you can practically be right behind it and still see the rear tyres. This is because of a large departure angle circa 40º.
Example:
Compare with a low slung sports car with long bodywork behind the wheels, like a radical (circa 2" ground clearance), which has a departure angle of about 5º.
Imagine how much further back you have to get just to see the rear tyres. That's what I'm talking about.
I'm not sure what you drive, but in my car, the limiting factor in being able to see the spot where the rear tyres on the car in front are touching the tarmac, is my own car.
Have you ever sat in a car and thought about this? Or do you drive a FC Landy?
I think his point was that different cars have different measurements where it comes to wheels, suspension, bumpers, chassis, wheelbase and what not. What you're using is a rule of thumb rather than something set in concrete. from an average saloon, to see the back tyres of my M240i, you'd be seeing a lot of tarmac as they're quite well buried under the arse of the car, to see the back tyres of my previous Nissan 200sx... you'd need to listen to the road surface.
TooMany2cvs said:
That certainly provides a consistent minimum distance for most stuff, but for stuff with a very long/low overhang, so a very small departure angle, it would still apply.
Vanishingly rare, though...
I agree rare, but there are cars out there like that.Vanishingly rare, though...
I do support the use of the T&T rule though as it does account for most situations. Rather like the 2 second rule (extended depending on driving conditions obviously) which is another thing many seem to have dispensed with in favour of harassing the vehicle in front.
SimonTheSailor said:
How do you know it's going to be a 10 wait ?
if the pic in the op is one of the carnoustie crossings it could well be 10 mins (tip for avoidance is head to the westhaven bridge). constant brake lights when stationary at traffic lights or elsewhere at night are a minor pain in the ass. always be wary of any car that has a saltire, vote yes or snp logos displayed. ime they are symbolic of driving incompetence.I find people who sit in traffic with their foot on the brake a bit annoying, especially given the number of cars with electric handbrakes these days, but as a couple of other posters have pointed out, if OP finds it retina burning, then he ought to question whether he should be driving after dark particularly as, from his photo, the crossing lights seem equally as bright as the Audi's brake lights.
10 minutes at a level crossing does seem unfeasibly long; I have to cross the Cambridge-Kings Cross line at Foxton, and although it can feel like an eternity, I have never waited as long as 10 minutes, even when the barriers have remained down for another train. The length of time the barriers down no longer winds me up - the consequences of a train colliding with a car are pretty horrific, so I just chill out and wait. I assume the long wait between barriers lowering and train appearing are a consequence of too many drivers chancing it.
10 minutes at a level crossing does seem unfeasibly long; I have to cross the Cambridge-Kings Cross line at Foxton, and although it can feel like an eternity, I have never waited as long as 10 minutes, even when the barriers have remained down for another train. The length of time the barriers down no longer winds me up - the consequences of a train colliding with a car are pretty horrific, so I just chill out and wait. I assume the long wait between barriers lowering and train appearing are a consequence of too many drivers chancing it.
SimonTheSailor said:
FiF said:
10 minutes wait? I'd have had the handbrake on, in neutral and engine off for a long time. Which would also have switched off the headlights. Don't have auto hold, or stop start, but do have an automatic. It's not much effort in order to have a bit of consideration for others.
How do you know it's going to be a 10 wait ?Like getting to the back of a queue on a motorway, say, you can see if the traffic ahead is stop / start or you are there for a while.
Realise that asking some drivers to do a bit of observation and apply a bit of common sense is asking too much these days.
Consideration for others us in short supply. It's like where you cede priority to another who tgen gives you a flash full in the face to say thank you. They think they are being courteous, but in my book it's like holding a door open for someone and they say thanks and then spit in your face as they sail through. Bit of thought and consideration needed.
My car is automatic with auto hold and it keeps the brake lights on. I had some guy behind me the other week going nuts at every light we stopped at. The manual for my car recommends leaving in P and auto hold so I just go with that - II'm not going to add wear and tear on my gearbox just so someone feels comfy getting right up behind me and staring at my lights!
It was most amusing watching the guy almost explode when I got bored of his abuse and kept flicking the fogs on and off when I stopped also.
It was most amusing watching the guy almost explode when I got bored of his abuse and kept flicking the fogs on and off when I stopped also.
SimonTheSailor said:
FiF said:
10 minutes wait? I'd have had the handbrake on, in neutral and engine off for a long time. Which would also have switched off the headlights. Don't have auto hold, or stop start, but do have an automatic. It's not much effort in order to have a bit of consideration for others.
How do you know it's going to be a 10 wait ?Nanook said:
CraigyMc said:
I've driven both a defender and an S1 elise, so yes, I have thought about this. It's a common "rule" taught in the US to new drivers. It's also bks for the reasons given.
So you're talking about the departure angle of the 4x4 in front being 40 degrees or so.ks for the reasons given.When you look forward out of your own car, can you see the tarmac if you look at an angle of 40 degrees down from horizontal?
My bonnet is a lot shallower than that. heck, even my windscreen is further away than that. If my eye line is anything steeper than about 5 degrees below horizontal, I'm looking at something inside my car.
I really don't think you're thought that through.
buymeabar said:
My car is automatic with auto hold and it keeps the brake lights on. I had some guy behind me the other week going nuts at every light we stopped at. The manual for my car recommends leaving in P and auto hold so I just go with that - II'm not going to add wear and tear on my gearbox just so someone feels comfy getting right up behind me and staring at my lights!
It was most amusing watching the guy almost explode when I got bored of his abuse and kept flicking the fogs on and off when I stopped also.
Bit in bold, refer to thread title, case study of a bell end.It was most amusing watching the guy almost explode when I got bored of his abuse and kept flicking the fogs on and off when I stopped also.
People are lazy. In my Fiesta, I am largely lower than most SUVs and regularly get blinded by brake lights directly in my line of sight, for excessive amounts of time.
I always apply the handbrake and use the footbrake as little as possible (doesn't do the discs any good if they're hot either). When I drove auto, I also put it in park or neutral and applied the handbrake.
Not sure how I would manage with these sh** electronic handbrakes, always had a manual handbrake.
In any event, I just hold my arm and palm up to shield my eyes. sometimes, the knob may use the rear view once,, for that day and spot the issue. Not often though. Once the road clears, i tend to pass them to avoid it. I'm not suggesting there is anything malicious in their cations but, rather like foglight morons, some just don't realise how bright these lights are. I can't even flash them as my headlights just illuminate the area under their axles...
I always apply the handbrake and use the footbrake as little as possible (doesn't do the discs any good if they're hot either). When I drove auto, I also put it in park or neutral and applied the handbrake.
Not sure how I would manage with these sh** electronic handbrakes, always had a manual handbrake.
In any event, I just hold my arm and palm up to shield my eyes. sometimes, the knob may use the rear view once,, for that day and spot the issue. Not often though. Once the road clears, i tend to pass them to avoid it. I'm not suggesting there is anything malicious in their cations but, rather like foglight morons, some just don't realise how bright these lights are. I can't even flash them as my headlights just illuminate the area under their axles...
...Never mind the subject matter, it appears that PH is visited by a lot of bellends these days, judging by some of the responses....
...why are people so aggressive on line... ?!
....FWIW, stereotypical comments re Audi drivers and private plates aside, I do agree with the OP about the rear brake lights....yes its a first world problem, but a little consideration for others around you does go a long way...
I have 2 points.
OP sat behind Audiman fuming for 10 minutes ,how about getting out and asking him to use handbrake ?.....
Answer .yes, it could be Kenny Noye on day release so could be fraught with problems.
Secondly ,anyone else ever sat at Mortlake crossing ,I forget the time taken but I've seen 8 trains cross on one closure .4 each way.
OP sat behind Audiman fuming for 10 minutes ,how about getting out and asking him to use handbrake ?.....
Answer .yes, it could be Kenny Noye on day release so could be fraught with problems.
Secondly ,anyone else ever sat at Mortlake crossing ,I forget the time taken but I've seen 8 trains cross on one closure .4 each way.
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