RE: Welsh Government owns 3 per cent of TVR
Discussion
In the mean time Wales has the worst performing schools, a growing homeless population, NHS on it knees. This is 2018 remember.
Hopefully they can make some of the tens of millions of pounds back that our Welsh Labour Govrnment lost us when they sold off loads of land way too cheaply last year.
Hopefully they can make some of the tens of millions of pounds back that our Welsh Labour Govrnment lost us when they sold off loads of land way too cheaply last year.
I've lived in Wales all my life and I can tell you that the devolved government don't have the money to buy a pin badge from TVR never mind a stake in the company. Its probably a 3% stake with the promise of huge tax breaks for TVR. Another example of the welsh government going into a project they don't have a clue about. I completely hope that this re-birth of TVR is a huge success but I would expect at least a couple of management changes and possibly a new owner in the first two years of the first model hitting the road.
Nickbrapp said:
Headline in 2 years time when tvr goes bust again, which it will...
Welsh government lost £2million in failed sports car company TVR shambles
No, that's not correct.Welsh government lost £2million in failed sports car company TVR shambles
WG's direct investment was £500k.
They've also loaned the firm £2million.
But to say they will loose all of the 2.5million IF TVR fails again is also incorrect.
PAULJ5555 said:
In the mean time Wales has the worst performing schools, a growing homeless population, NHS on it knees. This is 2018 remember.
Hopefully they can make some of the tens of millions of pounds back that our Welsh Labour Govrnment lost us when they sold off loads of land way too cheaply last year.
The Schools and the NHS are on their knees as a direct result of the Conservative's Austerity measures. And their pathological desire to privatise the NHS, whatever the (human) cost. FA to do with WG.Hopefully they can make some of the tens of millions of pounds back that our Welsh Labour Govrnment lost us when they sold off loads of land way too cheaply last year.
original article said:
That's according to the BBC, which reported today on Welsh Conservative unease about whether or not the public's money had been properly safeguarded.
"Conservative unease" over 500k?!!!! After the b
ds have given (and lost) Carillion BILLIONS (nee Carillions) ? Just a little bit of hypocrisy going on there I think...Edited by Zombie on Wednesday 17th January 14:24
Zombie said:
The Schools and the NHS are on their knees as a direct result of the Conservative's Austerity measures. And their pathological desire to privatise the NHS, whatever the (human) cost. FA to do with WG.
Aren't the WA in charge of spend on the NHS in Wales, not Whitehall?Also, on privatisation, I agree it is increasing but 1) it is still a small % and 2) it's no faster than under the Labour govt
https://fullfact.org/health/how-much-more-nhs-spen...
PAULJ5555 said:
In the mean time Wales has the worst performing schools, a growing homeless population, NHS on it knees. This is 2018 remember.
Hopefully they can make some of the tens of millions of pounds back that our Welsh Labour Govrnment lost us when they sold off loads of land way too cheaply last year.
To be fair though we get examined in English Language which is easy compared to Welsh Hopefully they can make some of the tens of millions of pounds back that our Welsh Labour Govrnment lost us when they sold off loads of land way too cheaply last year.
And surely this is a drop in the ocean compared to say the £200m the Welsh NHS paid out for errors
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-42695699
Edited by Byker28i on Wednesday 17th January 14:39
Vaud said:
Aren't the WA in charge of spend on the NHS in Wales, not Whitehall?
Also, on privatisation, I agree it is increasing but 1) it is still a small % and 2) it's no faster than under the Labour govt
https://fullfact.org/health/how-much-more-nhs-spen...
At the national level, the Welsh Assembly decides the size of the NHS budget, from within the total allocation it receives from the Chancellor. About 80 per cent of this is allocated to the 22 Local Health Boards according to a formula, which gives most money to those parts of Wales with the poorest health.Also, on privatisation, I agree it is increasing but 1) it is still a small % and 2) it's no faster than under the Labour govt
https://fullfact.org/health/how-much-more-nhs-spen...
With budgets being squeezed by austerity, this will have an inevitable result. Spending in the NHS needs to be massively increased due to an ageing population keeping it at a static level or one that does not take this into account is a cut in real terms.
And it's not just about NHS expenditure, Social care and school funding is within the LA's remit. Cutting LA spending to fund the NHS will put the NHS under more pressure. There is a direct link.
The tories have cut spending in real terms, so much so they have had to be told by the regulatory body to stop saying that they have increased NHS funding. Their aim is for the NHS to fall in to crisis so that the PS can come in and bail it out in one single firesale. It's not about the current rate at which it's being privatised but what will happen in the future and how they are trying to achieve it.
Edited by Zombie on Wednesday 17th January 14:58
Byker28i said:
To be fair though we get examined in English Language which is easy compared to Welsh
And surely this is a drop in the ocean compared to say the £200m the Welsh NHS paid out for errors
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-42695699
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-42442343And surely this is a drop in the ocean compared to say the £200m the Welsh NHS paid out for errors
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-42695699
Edited by Byker28i on Wednesday 17th January 14:39
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-41180590
Zombie said:
PAULJ5555 said:
In the mean time Wales has the worst performing schools, a growing homeless population, NHS on it knees. This is 2018 remember.
Hopefully they can make some of the tens of millions of pounds back that our Welsh Labour Govrnment lost us when they sold off loads of land way too cheaply last year.
The Schools and the NHS are on their knees as a direct result of the Conservative's Austerity measures. And their pathological desire to privatise the NHS, whatever the (human) cost. FA to do with WG.Hopefully they can make some of the tens of millions of pounds back that our Welsh Labour Govrnment lost us when they sold off loads of land way too cheaply last year.
original article said:
That's according to the BBC, which reported today on Welsh Conservative unease about whether or not the public's money had been properly safeguarded.
"Conservative unease" over 500k?!!!! After the bds have given (and lost) Carillion BILLIONS (nee Carillions) ? Just a little bit of hypocrisy going on there I think...Edited by Zombie on Wednesday 17th January 14:24
Zombie said:
Nickbrapp said:
Headline in 2 years time when tvr goes bust again, which it will...
Welsh government lost £2million in failed sports car company TVR shambles
No, that's not correct.Welsh government lost £2million in failed sports car company TVR shambles
WG's direct investment was £500k.
They've also loaned the firm £2million.
But to say they will loose all of the 2.5million IF TVR fails again is also incorrect.
The Welsh Government seems to have a fairly all singing, all dancing first fixed and floating charge over TVR's business and assets (including the trade marks and IP), so shouldn't lose everything if it all goes tits up.
A 3% holding of ordinary shares is generally sod all voice, far less a seat at the table. I'm not sure the Welsh Government would want a seat at the table - if it all goes tits up, one can imagine the headlines/chest beating politicians "you had a seat at the table and still allowed this to happen?". The loan agreement may give them the right to send an observer to board meetings to keep an eye on things and report back, without being directly involved in decision making.
And it's "lose" for f
k's sake. 
Edited by Europa1 on Wednesday 17th January 15:47
PAULJ5555 said:
Unfortunatly you are wrong in that Welsh Labour in wales has sold off parts of the NHS in wales with managed service contracts and PFI's, there is also an interview with Richard Branson and Russel Howard where he says he developed Virgin care because Gordon Brown(Labour) asked him to so they could palm it off. Google it.
What exactly am I wrong about? Gordon and Tony were centrist right wingers in disguise, it didn’t suprise me that they privatised some elements but what the tories are doing now is very different in that people are dying due to staff and bed shortages and chronic under funding. ducnick said:
A very shrewd move as it gives the Welsh government a seat at the top table to ensure the success of the company employing local people, paying local business rates and feeding into the local economy. I would imagine any suggestion by the board in a few yrs time to relocate elsewhere would come under fire from this share holder.
Indeed, whilst not entirely the same it was a Welsh development grant of £1 million that helped secure Admiral Insurance choose Cardiff as their base of operations, 25 years on and that investment has certainly paid off for South Wales.Had the WDA not invested Admiral would have likely launched in Brighton!
Zombie said:
PAULJ5555 said:
Unfortunatly you are wrong in that Welsh Labour in wales has sold off parts of the NHS in wales with managed service contracts and PFI's, there is also an interview with Richard Branson and Russel Howard where he says he developed Virgin care because Gordon Brown(Labour) asked him to so they could palm it off. Google it.
What exactly am I wrong about? Gordon and Tony were centrist right wingers in disguise, it didn’t suprise me that they privatised some elements but what the tories are doing now is very different in that people are dying due to staff and bed shortages and chronic under funding. Labour have been in power in Wales for the last 17yrs how do you explane this, the 500K to TVR aint being spent on the NHS is it or the rest of the waste in Wales, Swanea Tidal Lagoon, The money spent on the race track in Ebbw Vale, people are dying remember.
Europa1 said:
I was struggling with the maths in the article, as the Companies House filings seemed to indicate the Welsh Govt may have bought its 100,000 shares at par, but on double checking it seems TVR filed one of its returns late - ie it filed a return showing the Welsh Government in its list of shareholders before it had filed the form saying it had allotted the shares.
The Welsh Government seems to have a fairly all singing, all dancing first fixed and floating charge over TVR's business and assets (including the trade marks and IP), so shouldn't lose everything if it all goes tits up.
A 3% holding of ordinary shares is generally sod all voice, far less a seat at the table. I'm not sure the Welsh Government would want a seat at the table - if it all goes tits up, one can imagine the headlines/chest beating politicians "you had a seat at the table and still allowed this to happen?". The loan agreement may give them the right to send an observer to board meetings to keep an eye on things and report back, without being directly involved in decision making.
And it's "lose" for fk's sake.
WG will have a stronger voice than their investment may suggest given that the have the other £2mil invested as a loan. The Welsh Government seems to have a fairly all singing, all dancing first fixed and floating charge over TVR's business and assets (including the trade marks and IP), so shouldn't lose everything if it all goes tits up.
A 3% holding of ordinary shares is generally sod all voice, far less a seat at the table. I'm not sure the Welsh Government would want a seat at the table - if it all goes tits up, one can imagine the headlines/chest beating politicians "you had a seat at the table and still allowed this to happen?". The loan agreement may give them the right to send an observer to board meetings to keep an eye on things and report back, without being directly involved in decision making.
And it's "lose" for f
k's sake. Edited by Europa1 on Wednesday 17th January 15:47
But as far as I’m concerned, WG should be kept out of TVRs decision making process.
Unless, of course there’s a chance of the syndicate members being caught in a hotel room near LAX discussing the import of pharmaceuticals...
And thanks for pointing that out, I am always appreciative of input from spilling nazis picking up on auto correct fails.
PAULJ5555 said:
Gordon and Tony are Labour and Labour voters voted them in, If they were right wing why did Labour voter put them back in for a second term. (its always someone elses fault)
Labour have been in power in Wales for the last 17yrs how do you explane this, the 500K to TVR aint being spent on the NHS is it or the rest of the waste in Wales, Swanea Tidal Lagoon, The money spent on the race track in Ebbw Vale, people are dying remember.
That’s the problem. They achieved a win by moving to a more centre right position. Thus winning torie and Lib Dem votes. So your initial point is flawed. Labour have been in power in Wales for the last 17yrs how do you explane this, the 500K to TVR aint being spent on the NHS is it or the rest of the waste in Wales, Swanea Tidal Lagoon, The money spent on the race track in Ebbw Vale, people are dying remember.
As for your second, simplistic question, investing in the future has the potential to solve the economic crisis. As pointed out above.
It’s also worth noting that the WDA was abolished 12 years ago, its functions of revitalising prosperity in Wales now falls with the remit of WG.
My comments also relate to the NHS as a whole. Should WG step in and bail out the English health trust instead of investing in the future of Wales? Or should the tories stop looking after their own interests and serve the public with impartiality for once?
Edited by Zombie on Wednesday 17th January 16:25
Zombie said:
PAULJ5555 said:
Gordon and Tony are Labour and Labour voters voted them in, If they were right wing why did Labour voter put them back in for a second term. (its always someone elses fault)
Labour have been in power in Wales for the last 17yrs how do you explane this, the 500K to TVR aint being spent on the NHS is it or the rest of the waste in Wales, Swanea Tidal Lagoon, The money spent on the race track in Ebbw Vale, people are dying remember.
That’s the problem. They achieved a win by moving to a more centre right position. Thus winning torie and Lib Dem votes. So your initial point is flawed. Labour have been in power in Wales for the last 17yrs how do you explane this, the 500K to TVR aint being spent on the NHS is it or the rest of the waste in Wales, Swanea Tidal Lagoon, The money spent on the race track in Ebbw Vale, people are dying remember.
As for your second, simplistic question, investing in the future has the potential to solve the economic crisis. As pointed out above.
It’s also worth noting that the WDA was abolished 12 years ago, its functions of revitalising prosperity in Wales now falls with the remit of WG.
My comments also relate to the NHS as a whole. Should WG step in and bail out the English health trust instead of investing in the future of Wales? Or should the tories stop looking after their own interests and serve the public with impartiality for once?
Edited by Zombie on Wednesday 17th January 16:25
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