RE: Land Rover revives the V8 Defender
Discussion
Am sure they will shift them but I really cant see the point, engine will accelerate the rest of what is effectively a farm implement that can be driven on the roads, very quickly to speeds it has no real business going at, i.e, over about 60 mph, am sure they handle better than the ones i have driven in the past but then so does a 20 stone drunk bloke on rollerskates.
Land Rovers are cool, because they were fairly rough, ready, accessible and easily fettled by owners, a 150 grand factory modified one sort of misses the point, will be a show pony trinket for the wealthy, probably hammered round Knightsbridge but knobheads.
Land Rovers are cool, because they were fairly rough, ready, accessible and easily fettled by owners, a 150 grand factory modified one sort of misses the point, will be a show pony trinket for the wealthy, probably hammered round Knightsbridge but knobheads.
gazza285 said:
MDL111 said:
loudlashadjuster said:
TooMany2cvs said:
mondeomk4 said:
It is the fuel injected Jaguar-Land Rover engine,
Somewhere along the line ‘naturally-aspirated’ for me seems to have stopped meaning ‘carburetted’.
It never did.Somewhere along the line ‘naturally-aspirated’ for me seems to have stopped meaning ‘carburetted’.
"Naturally aspirated" - as opposed to "forced induction" (turbo, supercharger etc) - has never said anything about the fuel supply, just everything about the pressure of the air supply. There's a clue in "aspirated"...
(Naturally aspirated diesels?)
"Land Rover hasn't contravened its own end-of-production rule by building them from scratch post-2016, but instead went to the trouble of reaquiring the cars based on a strict late-model criteria (i.e. registered after 2012, with less than 20k on the clock). Post transformation, they will technically become a Land Rover Classic product - and then be re-registered to reflect the changes made underneath. Gaydon expects the majority to end up on private plates."
So, as they have bought old Defenders and are then re-registering them, would they not have to be on 'Q' Plates and therefore not able to go on personal plates?
So, as they have bought old Defenders and are then re-registering them, would they not have to be on 'Q' Plates and therefore not able to go on personal plates?
yellowjack said:
Gentrification. It's been happening gradually all through the Land Rover's life though.
My first drive in a Land Rover was a (petrol) Series III Air Portable. Strike knob, pull lever, lift seats to fill fuel tanks, don't forget to switch from one tank to t'other, etc, etc.
Then we got the Defender. That was a big change - lots of improvements over the Series III. A lot easier to drive cross country from a gearbox point of view. Simple diff lock and a low range gearbox that didn't need an instruction plate to work it out.
Then came the Land Rover "Wolf". That's what it was called in the army, anyway. "So much more power than the Defender 110/90 stuff that you'll need a familiarisation course just to get it on your FMT600". Loads got damaged, some written off, in accidents caused by inexperienced drivers rolling them by driving too fast in inappropriate conditions. The difference between this and the Series III I'd first encountered? It wasn't remotely the same vehicle.
I had drives in a few of the army's V8s too. Quite a few at ARRC, winterised for deployment to Norway. Nice wagons, but getting to drive them was an issue as the MT boys didn't like to issue them if they could palm you off with a knackered 110 diesel instead.
But £150,000 for a Land Rover? Nah. Diamond turned alloy wheels? How long would they last if it was used off-road properly? Full leather inside? No bloody use to someone in muddy cargo pants with a brace of Spaniels and a shotgun. We all know where these are going to end up. And it won't be because they want, nor particularly need a Land Rover, but because they need a visible demonstration of their wealth to sit on the drive, or lug their Harrods sale bargains home in.
I'm not saying I wouldn't have one if i could afford one and was one of the 150 best palm greasers in the queue. But I'd have liked to have seen that power train available in a Land Rover model dressed in overalls, not a dinner jacket. It's not the car you want to arrive at the opera in - it's the car your 'muscle' arrives in, one in front, and one behind the limo (and that's a real demonstration of wealth right there...)
This.My first drive in a Land Rover was a (petrol) Series III Air Portable. Strike knob, pull lever, lift seats to fill fuel tanks, don't forget to switch from one tank to t'other, etc, etc.
Then we got the Defender. That was a big change - lots of improvements over the Series III. A lot easier to drive cross country from a gearbox point of view. Simple diff lock and a low range gearbox that didn't need an instruction plate to work it out.
Then came the Land Rover "Wolf". That's what it was called in the army, anyway. "So much more power than the Defender 110/90 stuff that you'll need a familiarisation course just to get it on your FMT600". Loads got damaged, some written off, in accidents caused by inexperienced drivers rolling them by driving too fast in inappropriate conditions. The difference between this and the Series III I'd first encountered? It wasn't remotely the same vehicle.
I had drives in a few of the army's V8s too. Quite a few at ARRC, winterised for deployment to Norway. Nice wagons, but getting to drive them was an issue as the MT boys didn't like to issue them if they could palm you off with a knackered 110 diesel instead.
But £150,000 for a Land Rover? Nah. Diamond turned alloy wheels? How long would they last if it was used off-road properly? Full leather inside? No bloody use to someone in muddy cargo pants with a brace of Spaniels and a shotgun. We all know where these are going to end up. And it won't be because they want, nor particularly need a Land Rover, but because they need a visible demonstration of their wealth to sit on the drive, or lug their Harrods sale bargains home in.
I'm not saying I wouldn't have one if i could afford one and was one of the 150 best palm greasers in the queue. But I'd have liked to have seen that power train available in a Land Rover model dressed in overalls, not a dinner jacket. It's not the car you want to arrive at the opera in - it's the car your 'muscle' arrives in, one in front, and one behind the limo (and that's a real demonstration of wealth right there...)
I really want one and wish I had more money than sense.
This will keep the name Defender in the mind's eye in the run up to the new model. Their current marketing - they send me a magazine now and then - is still steeped in Defender, this, Defender that, HUE dog bowls, ride on kids toys.
The Defender brand will be the new Mini.
JLR know exactly what they are doing. They are playing the heritage game, building the brand with very expensive to buy cars like this to soften the customer base up. That customer base - affluent lifestyle a bit rugged outdoorsy is being cultivated nicely.
Cynical or just good business?
As a fanboy I will probably lap the new Defender up like a cat with a tin of cream.
wargriff said:
"Land Rover hasn't contravened its own end-of-production rule by building them from scratch post-2016, but instead went to the trouble of reaquiring the cars based on a strict late-model criteria (i.e. registered after 2012, with less than 20k on the clock). Post transformation, they will technically become a Land Rover Classic product - and then be re-registered to reflect the changes made underneath. Gaydon expects the majority to end up on private plates."
So, as they have bought old Defenders and are then re-registering them, would they not have to be on 'Q' Plates and therefore not able to go on personal plates?
GOV.UK saysSo, as they have bought old Defenders and are then re-registering them, would they not have to be on 'Q' Plates and therefore not able to go on personal plates?
12. 'Q' registration numbers
DVLA issues ‘Q’ registration numbers to vehicles whose age or identity is in doubt.
If this happens, any original vehicle registration number will become invalid and you mustn’t display it again.
To get a ‘Q’ registration number, your vehicle has to pass a type approval process.
They also say
New or replica parts
Your vehicle won’t get an age-related registration number if it includes new or replica parts. DVLA will give your vehicle a ‘Q’ prefix registration number. Your vehicle must pass the relevant type approval test to get a ‘Q’ prefix registration number.
Get a ‘Q’ registration number
You won’t be able to keep your vehicle’s original registration number if one of the following applies:
it has fewer than 8 points
it has a second-hand or altered chassis, monocoque bodyshell or frame
there’s evidence that 2 vehicles have been welded together to form one (ie ‘cut and shut’)
Edited by Pistachio on Wednesday 17th January 13:59
Pistachio said:
GOV.UK says
12. 'Q' registration numbers
DVLA issues ‘Q’ registration numbers to vehicles whose age or identity is in doubt.
If this happens, any original vehicle registration number will become invalid and you mustn’t display it again.
To get a ‘Q’ registration number, your vehicle has to pass a type approval process.
They also say
New or replica parts
Your vehicle won’t get an age-related registration number if it includes new or replica parts. DVLA will give your vehicle a ‘Q’ prefix registration number. Your vehicle must pass the relevant type approval test to get a ‘Q’ prefix registration number.
Get a ‘Q’ registration number
You won’t be able to keep your vehicle’s original registration number if one of the following applies:
it has fewer than 8 points
it has a second-hand or altered chassis, monocoque bodyshell or frame
there’s evidence that 2 vehicles have been welded together to form one (ie ‘cut and shut’)
They will be putting new engine/gearbox,/running gear/interior and probably updating the chassis. I can't imagine them keeping a chassis, that has seen 20000 miles, on a 'new' vehicle. Especially at the £150000 price point.12. 'Q' registration numbers
DVLA issues ‘Q’ registration numbers to vehicles whose age or identity is in doubt.
If this happens, any original vehicle registration number will become invalid and you mustn’t display it again.
To get a ‘Q’ registration number, your vehicle has to pass a type approval process.
They also say
New or replica parts
Your vehicle won’t get an age-related registration number if it includes new or replica parts. DVLA will give your vehicle a ‘Q’ prefix registration number. Your vehicle must pass the relevant type approval test to get a ‘Q’ prefix registration number.
Get a ‘Q’ registration number
You won’t be able to keep your vehicle’s original registration number if one of the following applies:
it has fewer than 8 points
it has a second-hand or altered chassis, monocoque bodyshell or frame
there’s evidence that 2 vehicles have been welded together to form one (ie ‘cut and shut’)
Edited by Pistachio on Wednesday 17th January 13:59
Hence me thinking they wouldn't avoid a 'Q' reg.
wargriff said:
Pistachio said:
GOV.UK says
12. 'Q' registration numbers
DVLA issues ‘Q’ registration numbers to vehicles whose age or identity is in doubt.
If this happens, any original vehicle registration number will become invalid and you mustn’t display it again.
To get a ‘Q’ registration number, your vehicle has to pass a type approval process.
They also say
New or replica parts
Your vehicle won’t get an age-related registration number if it includes new or replica parts. DVLA will give your vehicle a ‘Q’ prefix registration number. Your vehicle must pass the relevant type approval test to get a ‘Q’ prefix registration number.
Get a ‘Q’ registration number
You won’t be able to keep your vehicle’s original registration number if one of the following applies:
it has fewer than 8 points
it has a second-hand or altered chassis, monocoque bodyshell or frame
there’s evidence that 2 vehicles have been welded together to form one (ie ‘cut and shut’)
They will be putting new engine/gearbox,/running gear/interior and probably updating the chassis. I can't imagine them keeping a chassis, that has seen 20000 miles, on a 'new' vehicle. Especially at the £150000 price point.12. 'Q' registration numbers
DVLA issues ‘Q’ registration numbers to vehicles whose age or identity is in doubt.
If this happens, any original vehicle registration number will become invalid and you mustn’t display it again.
To get a ‘Q’ registration number, your vehicle has to pass a type approval process.
They also say
New or replica parts
Your vehicle won’t get an age-related registration number if it includes new or replica parts. DVLA will give your vehicle a ‘Q’ prefix registration number. Your vehicle must pass the relevant type approval test to get a ‘Q’ prefix registration number.
Get a ‘Q’ registration number
You won’t be able to keep your vehicle’s original registration number if one of the following applies:
it has fewer than 8 points
it has a second-hand or altered chassis, monocoque bodyshell or frame
there’s evidence that 2 vehicles have been welded together to form one (ie ‘cut and shut’)
Edited by Pistachio on Wednesday 17th January 13:59
Hence me thinking they wouldn't avoid a 'Q' reg.
JerryF said:
Stupid question I suppose. But, if they can build these now, why did production stop?
Because they were losing money on making Defenders, since they took a hell of a lot of man-hours to build, and because it wasn't worth updating to meet forthcoming type approval changes.That there is such a thriving industry of aftermarket companies upgrading and customising Defenders, JE Motorworks, Twisted, Kahn, Overfinch, Bespoke Cars etc, proves there must be plenty of customers ready and willing to hand over big money for a Defender.
Mercedes have been cashing in on the G Wagens popularity for years and proved a manufacturer can get in on the action rather than leaving it all to the aftermarket to meet customer demand.
The biggest surprise is that JLR have taken so long to join the party.
Mercedes have been cashing in on the G Wagens popularity for years and proved a manufacturer can get in on the action rather than leaving it all to the aftermarket to meet customer demand.
The biggest surprise is that JLR have taken so long to join the party.
Flaunting the wealth often gets mention regarding all sorts of McLaren, Ferrari, SUV, barges and the like...
Most those you can see the money as it rolls by. The average person has no idea what a Ferrari costs but they know it's a lot.
I really don't see those same folk looking at the 'new' Defenders and thinking there goes a £150,000, flash git!
Seriously, who's going to know? I'm not questioning whether it's worth it, looking at the pics I just don't seeee showy, flaunted wealth.
Most those you can see the money as it rolls by. The average person has no idea what a Ferrari costs but they know it's a lot.
I really don't see those same folk looking at the 'new' Defenders and thinking there goes a £150,000, flash git!
Seriously, who's going to know? I'm not questioning whether it's worth it, looking at the pics I just don't seeee showy, flaunted wealth.
JerryF said:
Stupid question I suppose. But, if they can build these now, why did production stop?
These aren't new cars. The article has recently been updated from saying they were new cars on new chassis to saying they are rebuilding existing cars to this spec. It seems to be something similar to the 911 'Reimagined by Singer' in that they take a donor Defender and update it to this new spec, except that it's Land Rover Classic doing the work.Oh this just gets better. So JLR buying up used models and selling them for 150k. It does explain the cost but my gosh as said are they radically altering or just rebuilding these?
It appears also from the information they are targeting the UK only the rest of MENA is personal import.
It appears also from the information they are targeting the UK only the rest of MENA is personal import.
thegreenhell said:
The article has recently been updated from saying they were new cars on new chassis to saying they are rebuilding existing cars to this spec.
I thought I must have misremembered... Didn't it start off saying that they'd been "kept back", and would be newly-registered? And wasn't that "Faberge Chicken" line about how they'd be 2018-registered?There's an interesting line in the actual LR press release...
http://media.landrover.com/news/2018/01/defender-l...
LR said:
MARKET AVAILABILITY
Defender Works V8 is available in the United Kingdom, and MENA markets on a personal import basis. European market availability is also on an individual import basis, subject to rules on importation of vehicle conversions.
Defender Works V8 is available in the United Kingdom, and MENA markets on a personal import basis. European market availability is also on an individual import basis, subject to rules on importation of vehicle conversions.
thegreenhell said:
It seems to be something similar to the 911 'Reimagined by Singer' in that they take a donor Defender and update it to this new spec, except that it's Land Rover Classic doing the work.
Mmm. And we all know that they really should be on Q plates, just like Aston are in the middle of finding out...https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=16...
TooMany2cvs said:
Mmm. And we all know that they really should be on Q plates, just like Aston are in the middle of finding out...
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=16...
Chassis, axles and steering assembly from the original vehicle are all they need to avoid that surely?https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=16...
skyrover said:
Why the hell did they not offer these from the factory originally?
Crap engines (and gearbox/axles) were always the defender's weakness
110 and 130 had Salisbury axles from the factory. I can't say whether or not the 90s standard diffs were made of cheese as i don't know, but Salisbury axles are very good indeed.Crap engines (and gearbox/axles) were always the defender's weakness
The Wookie said:
TooMany2cvs said:
Mmm. And we all know that they really should be on Q plates, just like Aston are in the middle of finding out...
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=16...
Chassis, axles and steering assembly from the original vehicle are all they need to avoid that surely?https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=16...
https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-registration/radically-...
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