RE: Audi RS4 vs. Mercedes-AMG C63 S
Discussion
Onehp said:
Tin Hat said:
.... swapping my current C63 for the latest version is going to involve a £60 k investment, I think I will stick with my 2011 model-£82k is an awful lot of dosh for a c series and mine still feels excellent at 40k miles with the added benefit of no mechanical gremlins to date. With the ceramic brake option taken, Tyres (and fuel) are the only major regular expenses that need factoring in, i would thoroughly reccomend it to anyone who fancies a dip in fast estate water
In the current climate, pun intended, a new c63 will fall even harder in value as taxes and fuel cost won't become less by any stretch. So either it will be the last scratch with evaporating money, or one could get the previous (purer) NA one for a lot less... Handling isn't as good they say, what is your take on that? From this article it sounds like suddenly they have become great, but I read many a comparison test where it keeps coming last in the handling department... Funnily enough, I remember that fuel was touching £1.50 a litre when I bought it, so my fuel costs have actually decreased over time!
Swampy1982 said:
just an observation, the Audi OTR price includes delivery and road fund licence, at nearly £2k combined, the Merc's does.
If you assume the Merc will have the same costs it makes it nearly £10k more expensive (as tested)
Personally that'd swing it in favour of the Audi for me
the merc is the performance versionIf you assume the Merc will have the same costs it makes it nearly £10k more expensive (as tested)
Personally that'd swing it in favour of the Audi for me
the RS4 performance version will be along shortly
its a great way to milk even more money out of buyers, detune the car then charge them another 7k to get the performance back
Dave Hedgehog said:
Swampy1982 said:
just an observation, the Audi OTR price includes delivery and road fund licence, at nearly £2k combined, the Merc's does.
If you assume the Merc will have the same costs it makes it nearly £10k more expensive (as tested)
Personally that'd swing it in favour of the Audi for me
the merc is the performance versionIf you assume the Merc will have the same costs it makes it nearly £10k more expensive (as tested)
Personally that'd swing it in favour of the Audi for me
the RS4 performance version will be along shortly
its a great way to milk even more money out of buyers, detune the car then charge them another 7k to get the performance back
But still makes me wonder, if this isn't the truly cooking RS4 then why do the comparison in the first place (article) shirley it give the Merc an advantage before they begin.
Still, can't blame the author, who wouldn't want an excuse to get a go in these two cars
WobblyIronman said:
Can someone explain how >>insert 90% of manufacturers here<< can go from a base car at £29k to beyond £77k.
£29k base avant petrol model (granted its 1.4). Change the engine, add some leather, a new steering wheel, uprate the suspension and boom...
£47k base v6 model S4. Tweak the engine, a diff upgrade, blow out the arches and wallop...
£62k base price for an RS4
I know this is a very general overview but if nothing more I feel the discussion needs to move away from fossil fuel burning and tree hugging diesel comparisons.
Is there really over £33k of development and upgrades per car between the base and the halo?
Is there £15k difference between the S4 and Rs4?
Yes I have always wanted an RS4 and no, I dont have £62k.
911 Turbo only costs Porsche a fraction more to make than a Boxster but sells for double the price. Nice work if you can get it.£29k base avant petrol model (granted its 1.4). Change the engine, add some leather, a new steering wheel, uprate the suspension and boom...
£47k base v6 model S4. Tweak the engine, a diff upgrade, blow out the arches and wallop...
£62k base price for an RS4
I know this is a very general overview but if nothing more I feel the discussion needs to move away from fossil fuel burning and tree hugging diesel comparisons.
Is there really over £33k of development and upgrades per car between the base and the halo?
Is there £15k difference between the S4 and Rs4?
Yes I have always wanted an RS4 and no, I dont have £62k.
giggity said:
The RS4 isn’t a patch on the C63 in this shape or in the previous W204 6.2 version.
Audi are firmly in the shadow of Mercedes, people stuck in the 90s may mock the Mercedes rust gate stuff, but it would still rather that then the issues you face with an Audi, not forgetting the fact they’re just bland.
So that’ll be their s
tty gearboxes, the utterly boring drive, the reliability (high oil consumption - they all do that sir), some other issues they keep attracting the attention of forums and watch dog for.
No thanks.
Mercedes all the way. All day everyday, yes call me a fanboy if you must.
"So that’ll be their sAudi are firmly in the shadow of Mercedes, people stuck in the 90s may mock the Mercedes rust gate stuff, but it would still rather that then the issues you face with an Audi, not forgetting the fact they’re just bland.
So that’ll be their s
tty gearboxes, the utterly boring drive, the reliability (high oil consumption - they all do that sir), some other issues they keep attracting the attention of forums and watch dog for. No thanks.
Mercedes all the way. All day everyday, yes call me a fanboy if you must.
tty gearboxes, the utterly boring drive, the reliability (high oil consumption - they all do that sir)"not sure i agree, the s tronic box is fantastic, drive is not utterly boring and my s4 has not used much oil at all..... and has not missed a beat in nearly 2 years.... oh and did i say the gearbox is fantastic?
Ok, so even though these two cars are similar in price (due to the ridiculous spec on the Audi), surely the "standard" C63 is the rival here not the S that is listed at £10k more money? I think I specced an RS4 up with everything I would want on it and it came in under the 63S price wise without options.
As for those on about the price of a standard A4 at £29k, S4 at £46k and RS4 at £60k or whatever, Audi probably wouldn't bother making the A4 if they only sold £29k ones. I aren't sure they will sell many £29k ones at all TBH. Most A4s you see are not SE spec and most aren't 1.4s either. All of the higher prices engines and specs (not just S/RS) increase their margin, and that is what pays for the car's development. Its not just about component costs.
As for those on about the price of a standard A4 at £29k, S4 at £46k and RS4 at £60k or whatever, Audi probably wouldn't bother making the A4 if they only sold £29k ones. I aren't sure they will sell many £29k ones at all TBH. Most A4s you see are not SE spec and most aren't 1.4s either. All of the higher prices engines and specs (not just S/RS) increase their margin, and that is what pays for the car's development. Its not just about component costs.
Valgar said:
I feel the same, about most cars now. With these two it's just iteration after iteration trying to one up each other in some sort of German civil war.
I'm sounding old but where the fk are you going to use 500+ bhp on UK roads?
I drive a C7 RS6 and have never used all 550 bhp in anger but the effortless waft from any speed, in any gear is addictive. Hard to go back to normal cars afterwards.I'm sounding old but where the f
k are you going to use 500+ bhp on UK roads?Discombobulate said:
I drive a C7 RS6 and have never used all 550 bhp in anger but the effortless waft from any speed, in any gear is addictive. Hard to go back to normal cars afterwards.
If you did you’d be doing 100mph in 8 seconds - assuming starting from zero but using it in anger when on the move you might have 2-4 seconds of fun before ban territory comes into play. As you say it’s the fast in any gear at any rpm that is addictive plus the noise plus the start up noise. Plus they look so good. Plus for those who know know what you have - 560bhp lot of fun (remember the C7 is very under rated its nearer 610bhp standard ).
Discombobulate said:
I drive a C7 RS6 and have never used all 550 bhp in anger but the effortless waft from any speed, in any gear is addictive. Hard to go back to normal cars afterwards.
I've driven a few. It's a truly legendary car!On a quiet road I nailed it from about 10mph. And "some" seconds later I bottled it as I looked at the speedo! It's just savage and I know of 1 (non UK) owner who described it as "the best car ever made"
Not had a go in a W213 E63S yet, a friend who has (but not driven the RS6) said it feels faster than a GTR!
Back to the topic.
WHY?! Just WHY have BMW not made an M3 Touring! How hard can it be! Instead they make 2 series Tourers and X4's and 6's!
Closest is the 340i Touring, With a useful (but not anywhere near enough 
) 320hp. Mrs TS7 has a MB-AMG, I have a RS Audi.
They're not competitors, ones a 'soft' roader, the other an estate car, but the first year of ownership, and indeed 'pre-ownership', have convinced us that our next cars will both be Audis.
The MB has been unreliable, the customer service - from both dealership and MBUK, p*ss-poor.
So whilst certain MBs may be better to drive than their equivalent Audis, and perhaps indeed vice-versa, the overall ownership experience is a great deal more than achieving a dab of oppo on a sweeping B-road. Not that a RS6 is averse to a bit of arse-wiggling.
And that results in a resounding win, in our household, for the cars from Ingolstadt/Neckarsulm.
They're not competitors, ones a 'soft' roader, the other an estate car, but the first year of ownership, and indeed 'pre-ownership', have convinced us that our next cars will both be Audis.
The MB has been unreliable, the customer service - from both dealership and MBUK, p*ss-poor.
So whilst certain MBs may be better to drive than their equivalent Audis, and perhaps indeed vice-versa, the overall ownership experience is a great deal more than achieving a dab of oppo on a sweeping B-road. Not that a RS6 is averse to a bit of arse-wiggling.
And that results in a resounding win, in our household, for the cars from Ingolstadt/Neckarsulm.
Edited by TS7 on Thursday 25th January 22:59
Edited by TS7 on Thursday 25th January 23:00
Rich_W said:
Back to the topic.
WHY?! Just WHY have BMW not made an M3 Touring! How hard can it be! Instead they make 2 series Tourers and X4's and 6's! Closest is the 340i Touring, With a useful (but not anywhere near enough ) 320hp.
Indeed as an F80 owner I'd really really wish they would do one, especially when it looks this good (this is a real conversion so I'm lead to believe)WHY?! Just WHY have BMW not made an M3 Touring! How hard can it be! Instead they make 2 series Tourers and X4's and 6's!
Closest is the 340i Touring, With a useful (but not anywhere near enough ) 320hp. 
I've registered my interest in the RS4 as I do fancy an estate next. I've tried a few times at Mercedes and they just don't seem to want to sell me a car (should try a different dealership to be fair).
sh33n said:
Indeed as an F80 owner I'd really really wish they would do one, especially when it looks this good (this is a real conversion so I'm lead to believe)
I've registered my interest in the RS4 as I do fancy an estate next. I've tried a few times at Mercedes and they just don't seem to want to sell me a car (should try a different dealership to be fair).
Stance looks a bit "wrong" on that conversion (his old E91 shape conversion looked better) Not sure why, might be the rear tyres look a bit stretched. Or that they sit out a bit too far (spacers I guess) And might need lowering a touch as well. I've registered my interest in the RS4 as I do fancy an estate next. I've tried a few times at Mercedes and they just don't seem to want to sell me a car (should try a different dealership to be fair).
I'd love BMW to go oddball and build a M4 Shooting brake though
Or perhaps a M2 SB
Edited by Rich_W on Saturday 27th January 19:31
Why no M estate.
They tried it with the E60 and it bombed a sales utter flop - why? Because buyers of the fast estates have always gone RS for Quattro and it has links back to he RS2 being an Avant.
The M cars are supposed to be finesse “race cars” you do not have an estate race car. Volvo 850RR excludes.
They tried it with the E60 and it bombed a sales utter flop - why? Because buyers of the fast estates have always gone RS for Quattro and it has links back to he RS2 being an Avant.
The M cars are supposed to be finesse “race cars” you do not have an estate race car. Volvo 850RR excludes.
Welshbeef said:
Why no M estate.
They tried it with the E60 and it bombed a sales utter flop - why? Because buyers of the fast estates have always gone RS for Quattro and it has links back to he RS2 being an Avant.
The M cars are supposed to be finesse “race cars” you do not have an estate race car. Volvo 850RR excludes.
They misread the market IMOThey tried it with the E60 and it bombed a sales utter flop - why? Because buyers of the fast estates have always gone RS for Quattro and it has links back to he RS2 being an Avant.
The M cars are supposed to be finesse “race cars” you do not have an estate race car. Volvo 850RR excludes.
A M5 Touring is never going to sell as many as a smaller A4/3/C size estate. If they'd done the "correct" car they'd probably have been pleasantly surprised. And whilst many will aspire to a RS4. It's probably not their biggest seller in the range. And with the S4 as well they're potentially taking sales from the halo car.
MB probably sell 3 C63s to every 1 E63. In fact they probably sell more GLE or GL 63's than E63 (which of course is now awd) . And remember BMW do make the X5 M version
I've had a new Rs4 to borrow for a couple of days this week whilst my current B8 RS4 was in to get something fixed.
It's a hugely impressive car, and (i think) a real leap over the B8 shape in every way bar the high revving V8.
However, that being said, most people, like I, have an RS4 for an everyday car, and there's a lot to be said for having huge amounts of torque low down and not having to drop 3 cogs every time you have to overtake
Performance wise, the B9 is quite a bit faster than my B8.
I've had 3 RS4's now (one B7 and two B8's), so I'm a bit of an RS fan, but I genuinely think this is the best RS4 they've made to date, and I include the B5 in that too as although I've not personally owned one, I've done a lot of miles in one.
It's a hugely impressive car, and (i think) a real leap over the B8 shape in every way bar the high revving V8.
However, that being said, most people, like I, have an RS4 for an everyday car, and there's a lot to be said for having huge amounts of torque low down and not having to drop 3 cogs every time you have to overtake
Performance wise, the B9 is quite a bit faster than my B8.
I've had 3 RS4's now (one B7 and two B8's), so I'm a bit of an RS fan, but I genuinely think this is the best RS4 they've made to date, and I include the B5 in that too as although I've not personally owned one, I've done a lot of miles in one.
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