RE: Corvette ZR1 at Viginia Raceway: Time For Tea
Thursday 1st February 2018
Yes, this does look like another lap record fiasco. And at the Nurburgring, too. Or rather the Nurburgring of the United States, as Virginia International Raceway is affectionately known.
Corvette ZR1 at Viginia Raceway: Time For Tea?
A few days ago the Ford GT set a lap record at VIR; now Chevy has gone and beaten it...
See last week Ford claimed a new production car lap record there, a GT lapping in 2:38.62 when driven by Billy Johnson; that beat the previous record of 2:40.02, set in a Dodge Viper ACR. Like damn near every American production car lap record there is.
Only now Chevy has taken the new Corvette ZR1 there and gone faster still, its dynamics engineer Jim Mero recording a 2:37.25. And as you can see in the video, that's ruddy quick - even if you're not familiar with the track. In Chevy's rather humble vid description, the lap is assigned "new benchmark" status.
Of course, as is always the problem with these laps, we don't know just how close to production standard these ostensibly unaltered cars are; Chevy says it's a regular ZR1 with the ZTK Performance Package (Cup 2s, big wing, more aero gubbins) plus a five-point harness (with bar) required for the record attempt. That's it. Says Chevy...
Let's hope there's no skulduggery at work, and that every version of this outrageous Corvette really is as absurdly rapid as the VIR record car. Bet those lucky buyers can't wait to find out. Ford, your move...
[Source: Road&Track]
Discussion
Gibbo205 said:
Wished GM would make RHD Corvettes, they totally destroy anything we can buy in Europe now, huge stonking V8, RWD, lightweight and super incredible handling and killer looks.
Please GM, make it happen!
It wouldn't surprise me if they do after seeing Ford's success with the Mustang. I hope they do anyway!Please GM, make it happen!
Vocht said:
Gibbo205 said:
Wished GM would make RHD Corvettes, they totally destroy anything we can buy in Europe now, huge stonking V8, RWD, lightweight and super incredible handling and killer looks.
Please GM, make it happen!
It wouldn't surprise me if they do after seeing Ford's success with the Mustang. I hope they do anyway!Please GM, make it happen!
The re-engineering costs to develop a RHD model would be fearsome and likely not repaid by increased sales of a highlt specialised product in territories where RHD is the norm. The true enthusiasts - those that couldn't live without one - will still buy a Corvette with LHD and the only country where you'd make any incremental sales would be Australia where LHD is outlawed.
If I had the means I'd buy one in a heartbeat and not care what side the steering wheel was on.
Turbobanana said:
How many do the currently sell in RHD markets?
The re-engineering costs to develop a RHD model would be fearsome and likely not repaid by increased sales of a highlt specialised product in territories where RHD is the norm. The true enthusiasts - those that couldn't live without one - will still buy a Corvette with LHD and the only country where you'd make any incremental sales would be Australia where LHD is outlawed.
If I had the means I'd buy one in a heartbeat and not care what side the steering wheel was on.
One wonders how manufacturers like Lotus, Porsche et al manage to do it....The re-engineering costs to develop a RHD model would be fearsome and likely not repaid by increased sales of a highlt specialised product in territories where RHD is the norm. The true enthusiasts - those that couldn't live without one - will still buy a Corvette with LHD and the only country where you'd make any incremental sales would be Australia where LHD is outlawed.
If I had the means I'd buy one in a heartbeat and not care what side the steering wheel was on.
rodericb said:
One wonders how manufacturers like Lotus, Porsche et al manage to do it....
....and yet Renault never engineered its massively successful Twingo (Mk 1) for RHD markets. There are loads and loads of cars on sale around the world which have no RHD variant.And seriously, how many Brits are honestly going to buy a V8 sports car in any event?
rockin said:
....and yet Renault never engineered its massively successful Twingo (Mk 1) for RHD markets. There are loads and loads of cars on sale around the world which have no RHD variant.
And seriously, how many Brits are honestly going to buy a V8 sports car in any event?
I can't find the latest figures but an article from Sept 2016 seemed suggests that at the time over 2300 new Mustangs had been registered in the UK, 70% of which were V8's, making it the most popular car in the 250bhp+sports car class. Outselling the F-type, TT, Boxster/Cayman, SL etc. And seriously, how many Brits are honestly going to buy a V8 sports car in any event?
If they can bring the Corvette over at a competitive price point for it's class (alike the Mustang did) then I'm sure they could sell well too.
Not that I know, but presumably R&D for a RHD car would be easier (and therefore cheaper) on the mid-engined car that seems to be in the works, meaning they could enter the RHD at a more competitive price point for it's class.
rockin said:
....and yet Renault never engineered its massively successful Twingo (Mk 1) for RHD markets. There are loads and loads of cars on sale around the world which have no RHD variant.
And seriously, how many Brits are honestly going to buy a V8 sports car in any event?
Not just Brits, Australia (Now down a major V8 producer) and JapanAnd seriously, how many Brits are honestly going to buy a V8 sports car in any event?
But ultimately they will probably sell as many as Chrysler did Crossfires
I have done several trackdays at VIR. It is a really great course, but I have never heard it referred to as the Nurburgring of the US. Maybe I am just running in the wrong circles? If you are using that term to give it benchmark status, then OK. But having run both tracks, they aren't really even remotely comparable.
Full Course: http://virnow.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/VIR_F...
Grand Course: http://virnow.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/VIR_G...
Trophy200 said:
According to the GPS trace on the video that was a far from standard lap!Trophy200
The course map in the upper left is the Full Course. That is what IMSA and other race series run. What the Corvette is running is the Grand Course. At about 1:28 where he hits the brakes and does a right hairpin, he is heading off the back straight onto the infield section. At about 2:17 he spits out of the infield section back onto the Full Course at the top of the Roller Coaster.Full Course: http://virnow.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/VIR_F...
Grand Course: http://virnow.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/VIR_G...
Turbobanana said:
The re-engineering costs to develop a RHD model would be fearsome and likely not repaid by increased sales of a highlt specialised product in territories where RHD is the norm. The true enthusiasts - those that couldn't live without one - will still buy a Corvette with LHD...
This, I'm afraid, chaps, is the most likely answer.Keep in mind: Any US car sold in Blighty faces a daunting set of maths: fuel is twice the price, on-the-road fees are many times greater, and cost-of-living is greater. And this is before we get to the matter of paying back the costs to engineer in RHD and to certify for UK regulation. Is there in the UK the disposable income to compensate for all that?
Mustang is much more affordable than Corvette. Unfortunately, however, UK sales of Mustang are still relatively low. The US market buys more Mustangs per month than the UK buys in one year. And the UK versions of the Mustang have had basic content, standard in the US, removed from them so as to make margins more sustainable.
In all but a few countries, Ford is likely not earning a profit on the international Mustang. Rather the entire programme is justified on the basis that "international Mustang" is an exercise in corporate branding.
General Motors has promised two things:
1) RHD Camaro
The next iteration of Camaro will be OEM engineered and produced in RHD. The impetus for this is the Australian market, which currently sells -- on a per-capita basis -- almost as many Mustangs per month as in the US. Pity that the Aussies are but seven percent of the Yank population.
This is a matter of brand perception for General Motors (ie: if their muscle car nemesis is now in RHD, then Camaro must be seen to do the same). This perception is so important to General Motors that they have agreed an interim solution in which LHD US market Camaros will be shipped to Australia where a local fitter will chop them up and convert them to RHD. This will be at a considerable premium to the Ozzie Mustang (but, GM reckon, it's better than nothing) and it will last for a couple of years.
A conservative estimate of timing for an OEM RHD Camaro in the UK would be, say, five years from now.
2) RHD Corvette
The next generation of Corvette -- the mid-engined C8 -- will be engineered and manufactured in RHD. Keep in mind, however, that the C8 will be a watershed moment for Corvette in which the brand moves upmarket from its populist roots. The C8 is rumoured to be priced at around $140,000 in its domestic market -- more than twice the price of a C7 coupe of today. From past experience, we can assume that, by the time a RHD C8 arrives in Blighty, nobody at General Motors will bother with foreign currency calculations and conversions; they will simply replace the $ with a £.
A conservative estimate of timing for the UK would be, say, three years from now.
rodericb said:
One wonders how manufacturers like Lotus, Porsche et al manage to do it....
In the US market, a Porsche 911 is approximately twice the price of its Corvette counterpart. And, for those with a weak heart, don't bother to look at fees for Porsche insurance and maintenance.Lotus are often absent from the US market -- most recently because they couldn't be bothered to fix one relatively simple airbag matter.
Minor safety and emissions issues have dogged Lotus in the US for ages. They're a bit of a ghost: on-again, off-again. The dealership network is skeletal and the cars cost more than Corvette as well.
unsprung said:
2) RHD Corvette
The next generation of Corvette -- the mid-engined C8 -- will be engineered and manufactured in RHD. Keep in mind, however, that the C8 will be a watershed moment for Corvette in which the brand moves upmarket from its populist roots. The C8 is rumoured to be priced at around $140,000 in its domestic market -- more than twice the price of a C7 coupe of today. From past experience, we can assume that, by the time a RHD C8 arrives in Blighty, nobody at General Motors will bother with foreign currency calculations and conversions; they will simply replace the $ with a £.
A conservative estimate of timing for the UK would be, say, three years from now.
Any mid-engine car will be much easier to re-engineer for RHD. And they need something to replace Holden in Australia where high powered V8s are still very popular. The next generation of Corvette -- the mid-engined C8 -- will be engineered and manufactured in RHD. Keep in mind, however, that the C8 will be a watershed moment for Corvette in which the brand moves upmarket from its populist roots. The C8 is rumoured to be priced at around $140,000 in its domestic market -- more than twice the price of a C7 coupe of today. From past experience, we can assume that, by the time a RHD C8 arrives in Blighty, nobody at General Motors will bother with foreign currency calculations and conversions; they will simply replace the $ with a £.
A conservative estimate of timing for the UK would be, say, three years from now.
As for price - the foreign currency calculations already work like that on the Vette. A $90k car in the US costs £90k in the UK (and weirdly, the UK is the cheapest place to buy a Vette in Europe so we shouldn't complain - Chevy are holding prices despite the change in exchange rate post-Brexit). But what we have to remember is that the US prices we always see quote are not 'on the road' prices - they don't include any taxes at all. However, in many states their sales tax is very low, compared to our 20% VAT.
Lots of speculation over how much a C8 will cost but I can't see it will be as much as $140k for the base model. They'd lose almost their entire market in the US if they did that - over 1/3 of the cars they sell domestically are the lowest possible spec Stingrays, with the cheap interiors, low spec exhaust and engine, not what is sold in Europe. Anyway, rumours suggest we might find out more next year, but I agree 2021 seems likely for C8 in UK by my reckoning.
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