RE: BMW Z3 M Coupe: Spotted

[Dr Nookie]

athol said:

I have owned 2 z3mc and a z4mc from new and the z4 is a far far better car in all aspects. It's better as a driver's car, quicker, sounds better, built better, looks better (with CSL wheels and a side skirts).

Newer car better than older car shock....
Even if the Z4MC is, from an analytical perspective a better vehicle, that's not usually what drives desirability later in their life, or appreciation(financial or otherwise). It's often quite the opposite. I love the Z4MC - although as you say, needs to be on CSL's, but I'm never driving the Z3MC thinking, oh I wish it was better built, sounded better, etc. Its shortcomings (if that's what they are) are part of the appeal.
So yeah, if you're buying for performance in isolation, you can get more for your money elsewhere, but who gives a st.

[Petecossie]

athol said:

Petecossie said:

How right you are about the deep dish wheels.

BMW missed a trick with the Z4 MC as it should have had a more bullous rear arch.

The difference is the Z3MC was conceived and built by engineers and no stylists & bean counters involved. The Z4MC was designed by stylists and had bean counters involved to keep the cost down!!

It will never happen again at BMW I'm sure.

Someone is wearing rose tinted glasses.

Both the Z3MC and Z4MC where built as low volume "specials" by the M Division. Both involved stylists and bean counters but to a minimum compared to the regular, high volume models. I have owned 2 z3mc and a z4mc from new and the z4 is a far far better car in all aspects. It's better as a driver's car, quicker, sounds better, built better, looks better (with CSL wheels and a side skirts). Both are special and like the 1M, unlikely to appear again as BMW has now worked out it can confuse the market and cheapen the brand by adding an M badge to anything. I loved the z3mc's that I owned but not as much as the z4mc.

A z4mc for the same price is much better buy.

Oh, also had an M3CSL and the z4mc is better than that too. They are great but massively overrated and not worth the crazy prices now.

Athol
I'm not wearing rose tinted glasses. Just accept that the breadvan is a more interesting and desirable car. I'm on a Z3 & Z4 MC Forum and the Z4 MC hardly ever comes up in any conversations.

You've miss the point in the conception of the Z3 MC - quote from Z3 MC registry below.

What led to the development of the E36/8 M coupe?
The M coupe was developed under the leadership of engineer Burkhard Göschel with the intention of adding increased torsional and structural rigidity to the Z3 roadster chassis. The development team had a hard time convincing the Board of Directors to approve the model for production, but it was eventually given the green light as long as it remained cost-effective to produce. To achieve this goal, as many body panels as possible had to be shared with the roadster, thus the doors and everything from the A-pillar forward are interchangeable between the coupe and roadster, as are most interior parts.

Bean counters I would think only came in when it went forward to production. Stylists didn't have a look in as it looks so odd, but that is what I love about it!!!

As already stated by others, shock horror, the Z4 MC is better in all respects. It should be as it has been "developed" as an evolution from the Z3 MC which was cobbled up from E30 and E36 parts.

I had a E46 M3 which was a great car but too civilized for me, so I went back to breadvan which was much more involving and enjoyable to own.

We'll never all agree on what we like, you like your Z4MC, I like my Z3 MC. Go to Silverstone Classic event and I know which of the two cars attracts the most attention.

Look on Classifies on here and highest priced Z4MC is £28K for a 2007 model with 16K miles on the clock, the highest priced Z3MC is £55k for a 1999 model with 21k miles on the clock and there a few other for just a little less. So I think that shows which is the most desirable.

Also I think they (BMW) DO confused the market as allsorts of BMW models have an M badge stuck on them to make them sound sporty.

[Kawasicki]

The z3mc is desirable precisely because it is fun to drive/dangerous

I love it because it is ugly/amazing to look at

It is really special/a z3 with a roof

It was a skunkworks project/fully approved by the board

There will be nothing like it again/except for the z4mc

Semi trailing arm rear suspension are such fun to drive/the worst ever

[SidewaysSi]

Dr Nookie said:

athol said:

I have owned 2 z3mc and a z4mc from new and the z4 is a far far better car in all aspects. It's better as a driver's car, quicker, sounds better, built better, looks better (with CSL wheels and a side skirts).

Newer car better than older car shock....
Even if the Z4MC is, from an analytical perspective a better vehicle, that's not usually what drives desirability later in their life, or appreciation(financial or otherwise). It's often quite the opposite. I love the Z4MC - although as you say, needs to be on CSL's, but I'm never driving the Z3MC thinking, oh I wish it was better built, sounded better, etc. Its shortcomings (if that's what they are) are part of the appeal.
So yeah, if you're buying for performance in isolation, you can get more for your money elsewhere, but who gives a st.

That is not always true. Older cars tend to be "better" and ability usually, though not always, drives later desirability. Numbers remaining does have a big impact and people like to trade on that, particularly in the car market we have seen over the past few years.

The Z3M was not bad when it was launched but hardly universally acclaimed. Not sure I would want to drive an average car but appreciate others have different wants in a car.

[Petecossie]

athol said:

Petecossie said:

How right you are about the deep dish wheels.

BMW missed a trick with the Z4 MC as it should have had a more bullous rear arch.

The difference is the Z3MC was conceived and built by engineers and no stylists & bean counters involved. The Z4MC was designed by stylists and had bean counters involved to keep the cost down!!

It will never happen again at BMW I'm sure.

Someone is wearing rose tinted glasses.

Both the Z3MC and Z4MC where built as low volume "specials" by the M Division. Both involved stylists and bean counters but to a minimum compared to the regular, high volume models. I have owned 2 z3mc and a z4mc from new and the z4 is a far far better car in all aspects. It's better as a driver's car, quicker, sounds better, built better, looks better (with CSL wheels and a side skirts). Both are special and like the 1M, unlikely to appear again as BMW has now worked out it can confuse the market and cheapen the brand by adding an M badge to anything. I loved the z3mc's that I owned but not as much as the z4mc.

A z4mc for the same price is much better buy.

Oh, also had an M3CSL and the z4mc is better than that too. They are great but massively overrated and not worth the crazy prices now.

Athol
I'm not wearing rose tinted glasses. Just accept that the breadvan is a more interesting and desirable car. I'm on a Z3 & Z4 MC Forum and the Z4 MC hardly ever comes up in any conversations.

You've miss the point in the conception of the Z3 MC - quote from Z3 MC registry below.

What led to the development of the E36/8 M coupe?
The M coupe was developed under the leadership of engineer Burkhard Göschel with the intention of adding increased torsional and structural rigidity to the Z3 roadster chassis. The development team had a hard time convincing the Board of Directors to approve the model for production, but it was eventually given the green light as long as it remained cost-effective to produce. To achieve this goal, as many body panels as possible had to be shared with the roadster, thus the doors and everything from the A-pillar forward are interchangeable between the coupe and roadster, as are most interior parts.

Bean counters I would think only came in when it went forward to production. Stylists didn't have a look in as it looks so odd, but that is what I love about it!!!

As already stated by others, shock horror, the Z4 MC is better in all respects. It should be as it has been "developed" as an evolution from the Z3 MC which was cobbled up from E30 and E36 parts.

I had a E46 M3 which was a great car but too civilized for me, so I went back to breadvan which was much more involving and enjoyable to own.

We'll never all agree on what we like, you like your Z4MC, I like my Z3 MC. Go to Silverstone Classic event and I know which of the two cars attracts the most attention.

Look on Classifies on here and highest priced Z4MC is £28K for a 2007 model with 16K miles on the clock, the highest priced Z3MC is £55k for a 1999 model with 21k miles on the clock and there a few other for just a little less. So I think that shows which is the most desirable.

Also I think they (BMW) DO confused the market as allsorts of BMW models have an M badge stuck on them to make them sound sporty.

[Mr Tidy]

Interesting thread!

I saw a Z3M Coupe today in Estoril Blue parked in Worcester Park at around 16.10 - it looked fantastic!

But given the values, and running costs, of M models I'm more than happy with my 3.0Si Z4 Coupe!

[Debaser]

Kawasicki said:

The z3mc is desirable precisely because it is fun to drive/dangerous

I love it because it is ugly/amazing to look at

It is really special/a z3 with a roof

It was a skunkworks project/fully approved by the board

There will be nothing like it again/except for the z4mc

Semi trailing arm rear suspension are such fun to drive/the worst ever

Perfect summary!