RE: Toyota teases new Supra (again)
Discussion
Guvernator said:
Yes it does look small. The only issue for me is that the original Supra was what £40k plus back when that was a lot of money and it was the top of the Toyota sports car tree at the time. I just can't see them pitching the new replacement at the lower mid tier £50-60k bracket but who knows.
I can't see BMW crashing all over the new 8 series with it either. So that means starting at a 2l 4 pot and finishing with some sort of FI 6 cylinder, hopefully BMWs I6 rather than the Toyota V6 as they are meant to share engines.
The 8 series and the NA LC will likely both top out with a V8 and both start with a 6 cylinder, the 8 series with the twin turbo out of the current M5. If we see the LC sportscar turn up then it'll be interesting what engine Lexus put in that. That is the ~£100k segment entry for BMW.
tankplanker said:
Guvernator said:
Hmmm I hadn't considered the Z4\Z5 joint platform angle. How big is this car going to be?
I just can't see them creating so much hype and using such an iconic name to make a mid tier sports car, it would effectively be one rung up from the GT86!
That is exactly where I see it, with the LC above it, which makes far more sense to me. I just can't see them creating so much hype and using such an iconic name to make a mid tier sports car, it would effectively be one rung up from the GT86!
From that picture the rear seats look about as useless as the LCs and nowhere near as practical as a 911.
Here is the official BMW concept photo:
looks quite small to me.
My love for the JDM design is perhaps based on 90's nostalgia:
RX-7, small, sleek curvaceous and wacky engine.
R34 Skyline, racecar in street drag, technological tour de force.
MkIV Supra, Automotive maker Goliath flexing it's smallest muscle, produces legendary straight 6.
Evocative names, evocative and timeless stylings, perhaps having their popularity boosted by popular culture and somewhat restricted accessibility to the west. Those cars were "relatively" lightweight, strangled at 280ps (a good thing in my opinion), ripe for aftermarket modifications and over engineered. Car geeks wet dream.
It was a time when Japans design and engineering departments both could AND would...
Now we've had the FT86 concept, the Supra FT-1 concept, Subaru puts on display nice looking concepts at the occasional motor show, Mazda gave us the fantastic looking RX8 Vision 2015 concept. The will and capabilities of the Japanese is there, they aren't lacking in technical know-how either nor are they too strangled by legislation to produce "nice" cars.
But but by the time the cars inevitably roll off the production line, they are overstyled creases, watered down white goods and washing appliances neutered by bean counters. Excellent as means for transportation but fails to register any blips along the hospital heart monitors flat line of the car lovers dying hearts.
IMO only Mazda seems to currently have a design department that isn't an origami climax as well as interesting power plant technology developments. If Toyota and Toyoda are listening, I'd love to see a turbo straight 6 with all the classic turbo noises, a nice diff and the option of manual and auto. Leave the options-list checking to BMW and produce a car that will resuscitate automotive peoples love for far eastern cars again. I know you can.
Regards
RX-7, small, sleek curvaceous and wacky engine.
R34 Skyline, racecar in street drag, technological tour de force.
MkIV Supra, Automotive maker Goliath flexing it's smallest muscle, produces legendary straight 6.
Evocative names, evocative and timeless stylings, perhaps having their popularity boosted by popular culture and somewhat restricted accessibility to the west. Those cars were "relatively" lightweight, strangled at 280ps (a good thing in my opinion), ripe for aftermarket modifications and over engineered. Car geeks wet dream.
It was a time when Japans design and engineering departments both could AND would...
Now we've had the FT86 concept, the Supra FT-1 concept, Subaru puts on display nice looking concepts at the occasional motor show, Mazda gave us the fantastic looking RX8 Vision 2015 concept. The will and capabilities of the Japanese is there, they aren't lacking in technical know-how either nor are they too strangled by legislation to produce "nice" cars.
But but by the time the cars inevitably roll off the production line, they are overstyled creases, watered down white goods and washing appliances neutered by bean counters. Excellent as means for transportation but fails to register any blips along the hospital heart monitors flat line of the car lovers dying hearts.
IMO only Mazda seems to currently have a design department that isn't an origami climax as well as interesting power plant technology developments. If Toyota and Toyoda are listening, I'd love to see a turbo straight 6 with all the classic turbo noises, a nice diff and the option of manual and auto. Leave the options-list checking to BMW and produce a car that will resuscitate automotive peoples love for far eastern cars again. I know you can.
Regards
Ryvita said:
"There's also a bloody great wing on the back, perhaps hinting at a more track-orientated variant."
Err, no, Let's read that release again shall we? http://newsroom.toyota.eu/the-legend-returns/
"At 2018 Geneva Motor Show, a modern racing concept signals Toyota’s commitment to bring back to the market its most iconic sports car."
This shot is of a racing concept which will presumably be used for GT racing or something as publicity for the new car but is unlikely to be sold to the public? I guess does that count as a variant? *shrug*
More top journalism from PH in the OP I see, how hard is it to read for gods sakeErr, no, Let's read that release again shall we? http://newsroom.toyota.eu/the-legend-returns/
"At 2018 Geneva Motor Show, a modern racing concept signals Toyota’s commitment to bring back to the market its most iconic sports car."
This shot is of a racing concept which will presumably be used for GT racing or something as publicity for the new car but is unlikely to be sold to the public? I guess does that count as a variant? *shrug*
Please, please, please call it Supra and not GT-1. There is so much goodwill and heritage behind that name. Surely Toyota need to keep it as their halo car?
Exciting just to see Toyota taking performance seriously again and if it looks 80% like the concept they’ll do well. Fingers crossed.
Exciting just to see Toyota taking performance seriously again and if it looks 80% like the concept they’ll do well. Fingers crossed.
PhantomPH said:
I am totally with you...but I can't help feeling that this may be yet another 'bait and switch' by the rumour mill/teaser factory. Looking at the camo'd mule, it looks a VERY long way from the car we both like in other guesswork imagery.
The camo car in the article has fake panels on it, don't take that as indicative of the final shape / look.SonicShadow said:
PhantomPH said:
I am totally with you...but I can't help feeling that this may be yet another 'bait and switch' by the rumour mill/teaser factory. Looking at the camo'd mule, it looks a VERY long way from the car we both like in other guesswork imagery.
The camo car in the article has fake panels on it, don't take that as indicative of the final shape / look.tankplanker said:
If they did that, who would buy the Lexus LC if its outclassed by the Supra? Would see a silly move to have green lit the LC if they were going to superseded it so soon.
I know BMW have stopped production of the 6 series but this doesn't seem to fit the same segment as this joint project with Toyota has billed the BMW half as a Z4 replacement not a 6 series replacement? The current Z4 is closer to a Boxster than a 911 cab.
LC is like a Toyota Soarer/Lexus SC300&400 type of car and Supra is errrr Supra. Soarer and Supra has always been in a marked in the same time. No problem there because they are so different kind of animals.I know BMW have stopped production of the 6 series but this doesn't seem to fit the same segment as this joint project with Toyota has billed the BMW half as a Z4 replacement not a 6 series replacement? The current Z4 is closer to a Boxster than a 911 cab.
This thing is going to be a expensive one. They have always been like that. So i think i'm able to buy one of these in 20 years, if their value haven't go up already. I almost missed the boat last time...
More seriously there are few problems with this car:
1. Lesser engine is 2.0 turbo, not good. Supra has always been six pot for a reason.
2. BMW inline six is weaker than 2jz, so old car can be faster than new one when modded. And these cars will get modded for surely, but is this car strong enough to beat old model?
3. Lack of manual is major cock up. Toyota sports car should be a manual one, no doubt about that!
Anyway, two liter four pot Supra feels wrong maaaan... I need to test drive it, but i don't have high hopes for it.
RB5_245 said:
If it's built with the Z4 on the same platform it's going to be in the £30-50k, maybe push that up a little as it's a new model but realistically the platform isn't going to offer a model with a base price much over £60k.
So, with a manual or dual clutch I'll be very interested. If it's auto only for the top engine, forget it.
I saw some articles saying the price for the base model (2L 4-pot turbo engine) will be at £40k.So, with a manual or dual clutch I'll be very interested. If it's auto only for the top engine, forget it.
The main model (3L inline 6-pot turbo) will be around £60k.
IMO their pricing won't go up to 911 levels, even though they will likely pitch it as a 911 competitor.
Reason for this is that they'll have learnt the lessons from the original Supra that was priced too high, and when you think about it who with say £80k is going to buy a toyota over a porsche ?
It looks like it will be priced similar to the M4, but aimed at competing with the 911. Which actually is a large gap in the current pricing market.
I agree that if they don't produce a manual gearbox option, the Supra will die a quick death.
Guvernator said:
Yipper said:
Promise = baby LFA...
Reality = overpriced GT86 with a turbo...
Yep this is what I'm afraid of too.Reality = overpriced GT86 with a turbo...
That grey FT-1 concept above is probably one of the most desirable 'cars' (quotes because that's a render) I've seen in years. At anywhere up to £60k, I would really struggle to not go straight round and place a deposit.
PhantomPH said:
Guvernator said:
Yipper said:
Promise = baby LFA...
Reality = overpriced GT86 with a turbo...
Yep this is what I'm afraid of too.Reality = overpriced GT86 with a turbo...
That grey FT-1 concept above is probably one of the most desirable 'cars' (quotes because that's a render) I've seen in years. At anywhere up to £60k, I would really struggle to not go straight round and place a deposit.
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