RE: 2019 Toyota Supra details leaked

[PhantomPH]

Sure this will have been covered, but is it still a fanciful concept that is being shown at Geneva, or do we think it will be the real thing - albeit under the banner of 'concept'?

[morgrp]

Too Snouty for my liking - looks an aardvark in side profile:

[Atomic12C]

PhantomPH said:

Sure this will have been covered, but is it still a fanciful concept that is being shown at Geneva, or do we think it will be the real thing - albeit under the banner of 'concept'?

The Geneva show is to unveil the Racing version (concept). One that Toyota will likely sell to GT race series, VLN, etc. etc.

The road version is to be unveiled at New York Motor show apparently (in March?).

[PhantomPH]

Atomic12C said:

PhantomPH said:

Sure this will have been covered, but is it still a fanciful concept that is being shown at Geneva, or do we think it will be the real thing - albeit under the banner of 'concept'?

The Geneva show is to unveil the Racing version (concept). One that Toyota will likely sell to GT race series, VLN, etc. etc.

The road version is to be unveiled at New York Motor show apparently (in March?).

Is NY this March? I thought Geneva was this March.

ETA - answered my own question. NYC is end of march, Geneva is the start.

[MrwReckless]

For all you who are complaining about nothing and everything on a yet to release car, here is a brilliant video on why you are all wrong:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3vGkzmgafk

Regards

[RacerMike]

MrwReckless said:

For all you who are complaining about nothing and everything on a yet to release car, here is a brilliant video on why you are all wrong:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3vGkzmgafk

Regards

Some words about the history of the Supra doesn't stop it looking like a dogs dinner though does it? I'd have loved them to have made a car that looked (genuinely) like the FT-1, but as I said before, they've done the usual (modern) Toyota trick of making an incredible looking concept car look terrible in production by letting too many engineers ruin it. They seem to fail to understand that you can't just graft a few styling ideas from a concept car onto a production car with no cohesion.

I was really hopeful this wouldn't be another GT-86, but it looks like it will be. I'm sure it will be lovely to drive, which is enough for many, but if I'm spending my own money, I want something that at least looks good as well as drives well. This sadly won't be it....

[Atomic12C]

RacerMike said:

they've done the usual (modern) Toyota trick of making an incredible looking concept car look terrible

But it hasn't been unveiled yet.
The racing concept to be at the Geneva motorshow, the road version to be at the New York motorshow.

[anonymous-user]

Any news on price?

Plus, stop judging a car that has not yet been officially revealed, how the bloody hell do you know what it will actually look like.

Really excited for this ... especially if its a sensible lease cost ...

[RacerMike]

Atomic12C said:

But it hasn't been unveiled yet.
The racing concept to be at the Geneva motorshow, the road version to be at the New York motorshow.

The leaked images are clearly very accurate. They entirely match the proportions of the camo'd prototypes and I have every confidence this is what it looks like. Any dreams that it will have the proportions of the FT-1 are exactly that....dreams.

[Atomic12C]

Lord.Vader said:

Any news on price?

This is another area of speculation.... but as there are possibly 3 model variants to be produced they will cover a number of price brackets.

Speculative prices IMO are listed below:

2L 4-pot engine (around 250bhp) - possibly around £35-40k
3L 6-pot engine (around 350bhp) - possibly around £50-60k

Then finally a rumour of a 3.5L Lexus V6 hybrid engine (around 450bhp) - possibly around £80k


Personally if the above is anywhere near what it turns out to be then I don't think the £80k model will sell. That is just too pricey for a Toyota when customer would likely spend that sum of money on a Porsche.

[Atomic12C]

RacerMike said:

The leaked images are clearly very accurate. They entirely match the proportions of the camo'd prototypes and I have every confidence this is what it looks like. Any dreams that it will have the proportions of the FT-1 are exactly that....dreams.

Images of the development/test mule of course.
I think we will have to agree to disagree on what it will look like when its unveiled.

Personally, I don't think Toyota would dream of unveiling something like the test mule. Their reputation would be in tatters and the whole project would become a massive waste of money for them.

Given how 'edgy' the new Z4 is to look on the same chassis platform, I am putting a bit of faith in Toyota to unveil something fairly close to the FT-1 concept.

[RacerMike]

Atomic12C said:

Images of the development/test mule of course.
I think we will have to agree to disagree on what it will look like when its unveiled.

Personally, I don't think Toyota would dream of unveiling something like the test mule. Their reputation would be in tatters and the whole project would become a massive waste of money for them.

Given how 'edgy' the new Z4 is to look on the same chassis platform, I am putting a bit of faith in Toyota to unveil something fairly close to the FT-1 concept.

I work in vehicle development, and have seen that car in person in its camo. It's a VP which means that it has the correct body panels, bumpers, interior, wheels, chassis etc underneath the camo. The car you see camo'd is the car you'll see in the showroom (minus the camo obviously). The wheelbase, roof height, track, bonnet length/height, wheel size will not change.

Trust me....it's a Z4 with the FT-1 styling cues and a weird F1 style nose grafted on. Exactly as the leaked images. It's a shame, as had it had the proportions of the FT-1 I'd be down the Toyota showroom in the summer.....

[PhantomPH]

RacerMike said:

I work in vehicle development, and have seen that car in person in its camo. It's a VP which means that it has the correct body panels, bumpers, interior, wheels, chassis etc underneath the camo. The car you see camo'd is the car you'll see in the showroom (minus the camo obviously). The wheelbase, roof height, track, bonnet length/height, wheel size will not change.

Trust me....it's a Z4 with the FT-1 styling cues and a weird F1 style nose grafted on. Exactly as the leaked images. It's a shame, as had it had the proportions of the FT-1 I'd be down the Toyota showroom in the summer.....

This is the best and worst post of this thread so far. Best in it's provenance. Worst in that it pretty much confirms what we all suspect - which is to expect disappointment.

[RacerMike]

PhantomPH said:

This is the best and worst post of this thread so far. Best in it's provenance. Worst in that it pretty much confirms what we all suspect - which is to expect disappointment.

I think it's still going to be a great car to drive, but much like the GT86, it's not going to live up to the visual expectations of the concept. Toyota don't seem to have cottoned on that the rest of the car industry now creates concepts that preview the exact car people can buy. Back in the 90s, it was par for the course to create some fanciful concept car that, if you were lucky, might preview the front grille or wheels of the production car you might be able to buy 3 years later. If you were lucky. Maybe.

This doesn't really cut it now though. People expect that when a company says 'here's the new Supra concept, and there's going to be a new one to buy in 3 years', they mean.....you'll be able to buy this car in 3 years. Not....we'll take a Z4, stick some new bumpers and panels on it to make it look a bit like the concept car and re-tune the attributes a bit to make it feel more like a Toyota than a BMW. They unfortunately let the bean counters and engineers get in the way of a great concept. Either make the car you show people, or make a concept that can be made on the platform you intend on using....

[Ares]

RacerMike said:

PhantomPH said:

This is the best and worst post of this thread so far. Best in it's provenance. Worst in that it pretty much confirms what we all suspect - which is to expect disappointment.

I think it's still going to be a great car to drive, but much like the GT86, it's not going to live up to the visual expectations of the concept. Toyota don't seem to have cottoned on that the rest of the car industry now creates concepts that preview the exact car people can buy. Back in the 90s, it was par for the course to create some fanciful concept car that, if you were lucky, might preview the front grille or wheels of the production car you might be able to buy 3 years later. If you were lucky. Maybe.

This doesn't really cut it now though. People expect that when a company says 'here's the new Supra concept, and there's going to be a new one to buy in 3 years', they mean.....you'll be able to buy this car in 3 years. Not....we'll take a Z4, stick some new bumpers and panels on it to make it look a bit like the concept car and re-tune the attributes a bit to make it feel more like a Toyota than a BMW. They unfortunately let the bean counters and engineers get in the way of a great concept. Either make the car you show people, or make a concept that can be made on the platform you intend on using....

If also has to be born in mind that this is a £50k sports car. Not a £100k/150k supercar. Like it or not, it'll be pitched against the SLK/Z4/TT/Boxster/etc (and to a lesser extent a 340i/C43/S4/etc). It's not an exotic, it's mid-market coupe for people that can live with 2 seats.

[Scootersp]

I've tried to search but are there any old threads with a camouflaged pre release car so we can compare them to the now production model?

I agree the wheel base/main structure won't change but it could easily have a rear wing different wheel/wheel options body shape tweaks.

As a Mkiv Supra owner it's quite interesting to see how it turns out and if it succeeds for Toyota in terms of sales.

Shame they didn't go for turbo'ing the ISF's V8 or something crazy like that.

[PhantomPH]

Ares said:

RacerMike said:

PhantomPH said:

This is the best and worst post of this thread so far. Best in it's provenance. Worst in that it pretty much confirms what we all suspect - which is to expect disappointment.

I think it's still going to be a great car to drive, but much like the GT86, it's not going to live up to the visual expectations of the concept. Toyota don't seem to have cottoned on that the rest of the car industry now creates concepts that preview the exact car people can buy. Back in the 90s, it was par for the course to create some fanciful concept car that, if you were lucky, might preview the front grille or wheels of the production car you might be able to buy 3 years later. If you were lucky. Maybe.

This doesn't really cut it now though. People expect that when a company says 'here's the new Supra concept, and there's going to be a new one to buy in 3 years', they mean.....you'll be able to buy this car in 3 years. Not....we'll take a Z4, stick some new bumpers and panels on it to make it look a bit like the concept car and re-tune the attributes a bit to make it feel more like a Toyota than a BMW. They unfortunately let the bean counters and engineers get in the way of a great concept. Either make the car you show people, or make a concept that can be made on the platform you intend on using....

If also has to be born in mind that this is a £50k sports car. Not a £100k/150k supercar. Like it or not, it'll be pitched against the SLK/Z4/TT/Boxster/etc (and to a lesser extent a 340i/C43/S4/etc). It's not an exotic, it's mid-market coupe for people that can live with 2 seats.

They are two different points, really. Regardless of price, the point about the 'bait and switch' is fair. Who says that a car has to look like a dog because it's £50k not £100k? I know you are not saying that, but I still think that using a shared platform does not mean that the aesthetics of the concept need to be thrown out the window.

[MrwReckless]

Looks or not, they are subjective after all, save your judgement for the final product. What's mentioned about Toyota and design can IMO be said about most Japanese cars these days, though I do agree that Japanese designers especially are a bit lost/bound these days, with the subjective exception of Mazda. But to expect a concept car in the showroom isn't Toyotas problem, that is yours and if you do you have a deluded perception of the reality of automotive design and legislation conformity. Whether you do like the looks or not I'm guessing the aftermarket won't take long to be absolutely ripe with body kit parts, lowering springs and wheels to get it to look closer to your taste (or not).

I see there are several on the MK V forums who IMO basically daydream about a 500hp monster or whatnot, completely forgetting the MK IV was sandbagged by the JDM gentlemans 280hp agreement. I'd say the same to them (re. design and legislation), any more than 350hp seems useless outside the pub happy bragging hour.

I think it's nice to see the worlds largest automotive producer take a further step away from the white good dross they make and follow up on the GT86, giving it what everyone has been crying out for, with what for me is the quintessential Supra, an in-line turbo 6.

To paraphrase Chris Harris and the video I posted, I think it's nice to see someone buck the mega hp trend and rather try to get car enthusiasts to enjoy performance for it's nature rather than it's quantity. If we don't we all end up carspotted on youtube with yet another hand laid diamond decorated 1500 hp super/turbocharged flat red Huracan drag racing the 40mph roads in London...

[danp]

RacerMike said:

The leaked images are clearly very accurate. They entirely match the proportions of the camo'd prototypes and I have every confidence this is what it looks like. Any dreams that it will have the proportions of the FT-1 are exactly that....dreams.

I’d imagine it’s essentially impossible to recreate anything like the FT-1 concepts proportions and end up with a car that actually drives properly and meets the regs for pedestrian impact, crash safety etc etc

Dare I say it but I like the look of this, appears to be compact and tightly packaged - similar size or even smaller than the GT86 I’d guess. Will be interested to see how it turns out and the drivetrain etc - I’m a fan of the old E86 BMW Z4 coupe and this reminds me of it.

Edited by danp on Friday 23 February 11:38

[kambites]

Atomic12C said:

Yes, but... it wouldn't surprise me if Toyota weren't simply using the Z4 coupe to 'bolt on' new Supra design elements for the purposes testing,
This wouldn't necessarily require the 'full' Supra body work or final design.

It looks more like a coupe than a drop-top, though and there wont be a coupe version of the new Z4.

Edited by kambites on Friday 23 February 11:56