RE: Prior Convictions: Fuelling the fire
Discussion
techguyone said:
Cuz
MPG
No really, outside of places like this, everyone and I mean everyone only cares about MPG, motoring conversations go round how any miles to the tank x person got.
On the money. A mate's just got a '14 Mondeo with the 180hp diesel and could never understand when I was having a look at the 2.5T from the previous generation, or the ST220 from the generation before that. Solely on the basis of MPG!MPG
No really, outside of places like this, everyone and I mean everyone only cares about MPG, motoring conversations go round how any miles to the tank x person got.
wst said:
techguyone said:
Cuz
MPG
No really, outside of places like this, everyone and I mean everyone only cares about MPG, motoring conversations go round how any miles to the tank x person got.
On the money. A mate's just got a '14 Mondeo with the 180hp diesel and could never understand when I was having a look at the 2.5T from the previous generation, or the ST220 from the generation before that. Solely on the basis of MPG!MPG
No really, outside of places like this, everyone and I mean everyone only cares about MPG, motoring conversations go round how any miles to the tank x person got.
I’ve had one diesel (a Golf 6 GTD) and I’d never have another diesel out of choice. The Golf itself was as well behaved, beautifully judged and ultimately tedious as Golfs can be, but the engine was an agricultural monstrosity. I got to detest that bit around 4k where it’s like running into treacle.......
I might be the only one sticking up for diesel here but as a high miler, I've had dozens of diesel execs, mostly 3/5 series BMWs that are brilliant. Quick, quiet, and 800 miles on a tank.
I now drive a petrol hybrid E class, E350e and company car tax aside (massive scam I know but it saves me £2-300 per month) the engine is crap.
2l turbo, with 80 odd BNP battery assistance but its harsh, noisy and uneconomical. I'd go for a big diesel over it everyday given the choice.
Hangs head in petrol head shame.
I now drive a petrol hybrid E class, E350e and company car tax aside (massive scam I know but it saves me £2-300 per month) the engine is crap.
2l turbo, with 80 odd BNP battery assistance but its harsh, noisy and uneconomical. I'd go for a big diesel over it everyday given the choice.
Hangs head in petrol head shame.
blearyeyedboy said:
^ Devil's advocate, if a hybrid has electric motors with max torque at zero revs, might they be better in off-road applications than diesels?
Yes, a hybrid could bring much-loved torque from a standstill. Outcomes would vary, however, depending on how the application is engineered. For example, is this vehicle a series hybrid in which all mechanical force comes solely via an electric motor? Or is it a parallel solution in which the ICE and the electric motor each drive wheels? Does the electric motor turn a centralised drive shaft or an axle or half-shaft?
The ideal solution might be a battery-electric vehicle with microprocessor-controlled delivery of power to each wheel, independently. But then you get into issues of weight, range, and cost. At least for the foreseeable future.
Diesel is under pressure for very good reasons (like the quality of the air that we breathe). But it also offers particular and justifiable benefits in use-cases like commercial / heavy duty / severe / off road.
tjlees said:
blearyeyedboy said:
^ Devil's advocate, if a hybrid has electric motors with max torque at zero revs, might they be better in off-road applications than diesels?
No plugs off-road 
unsprung said:
For example, is this vehicle a series hybrid in which all mechanical force comes solely via an electric motor? Or is it a parallel solution in which the ICE and the electric motor each drive wheels? Does the electric motor turn a centralised drive shaft or an axle or half-shaft?
The ideal solution might be a battery-electric vehicle with microprocessor-controlled delivery of power to each wheel, independently. But then you get into issues of weight, range, and cost. At least for the foreseeable future.
My thought process hadn't got that far. I guess some form of parallel drive with the ICE, which has other drawbacks.The ideal solution might be a battery-electric vehicle with microprocessor-controlled delivery of power to each wheel, independently. But then you get into issues of weight, range, and cost. At least for the foreseeable future.
It's interesting that no one seems to have got that in a commercially formed way, which makes me suspect that t's harder than I'm considering.
blearyeyedboy said:
unsprung said:
For example, is this vehicle a series hybrid in which all mechanical force comes solely via an electric motor? Or is it a parallel solution in which the ICE and the electric motor each drive wheels? Does the electric motor turn a centralised drive shaft or an axle or half-shaft?
The ideal solution might be a battery-electric vehicle with microprocessor-controlled delivery of power to each wheel, independently. But then you get into issues of weight, range, and cost. At least for the foreseeable future.
My thought process hadn't got that far. I guess some form of parallel drive with the ICE, which has other drawbacks.The ideal solution might be a battery-electric vehicle with microprocessor-controlled delivery of power to each wheel, independently. But then you get into issues of weight, range, and cost. At least for the foreseeable future.
It's interesting that no one seems to have got that in a commercially formed way, which makes me suspect that t's harder than I'm considering.
Here on PH a well-informed chap introduced me to this company which does clever things with municipal vehicles.
It's a series hybrid in which a turbine (capable of burning a variety of fuels) serves as an onboard powerplant for electric drive. Retrofit older vehicles and your fleet can deliver notable improvements to performance and budgetary maths.
TooMany2cvs said:
blearyeyedboy said:
tjlees said:
blearyeyedboy said:
^ Devil's advocate, if a hybrid has electric motors with max torque at zero revs, might they be better in off-road applications than diesels?
No plugs off-road 
I changed to diesel for purely economic reasons due to high mileage commuting.
Now I am back to petrol as low mileage and I want to avoid the sting of tax.
I like the torque of a diesel.
Regular dar is a Sportage with petrol the wife being the main driver.
My car is a Morgan Plus 8 so oodles of torque in a light car. 3rd gear is smile inducing.
Politicians just need the merest whisper of eco worry to find a way of extra milking of the cash cow car owner.
Now I am back to petrol as low mileage and I want to avoid the sting of tax.
I like the torque of a diesel.
Regular dar is a Sportage with petrol the wife being the main driver.
My car is a Morgan Plus 8 so oodles of torque in a light car. 3rd gear is smile inducing.
Politicians just need the merest whisper of eco worry to find a way of extra milking of the cash cow car owner.
GibsonSG said:
I’ve had one diesel (a Golf 6 GTD) and I’d never have another diesel out of choice. The Golf itself was as well behaved, beautifully judged and ultimately tedious as Golfs can be, but the engine was an agricultural monstrosity. I got to detest that bit around 4k where it’s like running into treacle.......
The Golf GtTdi vs Gti argument is an excellent ballanced argument for use in discussing this point. Ok so for me it was my mapped Mk4 1.9 Gt Tdi 150 (211hp) vs my Mapped Gti 1.8t (190-200hp) that I owned after it but similar to the 2.0 t petrol vs diesel argument of later golfs. Depending on mood I could easily argue for either. The diesel would do 62mpg (at best) and the petrol 42ish mpg (at best), the diesel on the motorway between 80-100 would ride along effortlessly on a huge wave of boost/torque and felt ultimately sweeter and faster in this environment.. but it stinks on cold mornings (literally), sounded like a bag of nails in low gears and wasn't 'fun' to wind down a country lane.
The petrol felt less meaty in the power department.. less satisfying on the motorway but faster, lighten and infinately more satisfying on a country road when you're winding out the gears.
I think it's got to be horses for courses. If I spent my life on motorways the petrol would feel a waste on money and a bit weedy where needed. If I drove through a welsh or Scottish mountain road in the diesel I'd be dreaming of a petrol.. until rudely awakened by shattering my mk4 diesel sump on a bump and calling the AA (no really, ask me how I know)
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