Why do people buy vauxhalls?
Discussion
Davie said:
Lotus Carlton has long since been one of my dream cars... I just applaud the lunacy of the thinking behind it. I'd have loved to have been a fly on the wall at that board room / pub discussion. Was very fortunate to drive one for a few days and I was very much nervous that it may have been a case of "never meet your hero" but it was far from it... yes, I dear say it's probably not as sharp as an M3 CSL or not as quick as a nuclear missile and for the money you coudl have a house in Bradford or perhaps 127,000 rubber chickens or something but for a bit of a 90's Vauxhall fan, the sense of drama and occasion and indeed the presence it has is pretty spectacular. The world needed cars like this!
The issue in my eyes is that the VXR range is just a hotted-up version of a fairly bland base. For me (and it would seem a few others), I believe you can buy many more interesting 'bases' which will then come in 'hot' flavour too.C70R said:
While some of it is definitely about perception (i.e. Saab not getting the same justified criticism as Vauxhall), it's hard to argue that Vauxhall have made anything other than 'beige' cars for quite some time.
Hmmm, subjective but you can't really call the likes of the VXR range "beige" and whilst not on par with X, Y and Z competitor, it think it's fair to say that Vauxhall are still knocking out some interesting stuff but again, over powered completely by the UK's desire to buy in to the premium German brands and again, being Pistonheads and thus a bit "typey" it's much like keeping up with the Jones in here these days too... admit you have or like a Vauxhall and you're viewed with an air of disdain, which is a bit of a sad reflection of the demographic in here at times. Edited by Davie on Wednesday 19th September 14:59
phumy said:
Not much wrong with this Vauxhall either:
Never much in the looks department though I quite fancied a red 3000 GSi at one stage.for me, being old, this was my ultimate realistic dream car, as a teenager but they only sold 204 despite being better than the common Capri. Revolutionary in 1974
This enthusiasm for Vauxhall spread further when the Chevette 2300 HS/HSR came along too, shored up by rally success.
I owned a VX220, loved it. I had a strange fetish type attraction to the Ampera and if they managed to produce something like this for a decent price:
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/sporty...
It would stand a chance to actually pop my electric cherry and get me back in a Vauxhall.
However I do much prefer either Honda Urban or Sport EV concept:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_EV_Concept
I have the next 4 - 5 years planned car wise I reckon my next daily will be electric and if any of the above come true, likely one of them (fingers crossed for the Urban).
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/sporty...
It would stand a chance to actually pop my electric cherry and get me back in a Vauxhall.
However I do much prefer either Honda Urban or Sport EV concept:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_EV_Concept
I have the next 4 - 5 years planned car wise I reckon my next daily will be electric and if any of the above come true, likely one of them (fingers crossed for the Urban).
I think GM/Vauxhall and Ford should be applauded for still making bonkers, affordable cars that enthusiasts want to own. Maybe not the last word in refinement but who cares what badge snobs think?
After 12 years I still love my Monaro. A short clip whilst I was bored last week:
https://youtu.be/dRFE2eVcbzc
After 12 years I still love my Monaro. A short clip whilst I was bored last week:
https://youtu.be/dRFE2eVcbzc
C70R said:
The issue in my eyes is that the VXR range is just a hotted-up version of a fairly bland base. For me (and it would seem a few others), I believe you can buy many more interesting 'bases' which will then come in 'hot' flavour too.
Hmmm, trying not to come across as argumentative here nor an arse... but is that not the same as pretty much any mainstream manufacturer that has "hot" version of whatever model in their line up? It could be argues that if you took any number of hot hatches / performance saloons or estates and watered them down to the base / entry level version, every one of said entry level versions is hardly exciting and will have flaws in somebodies eyes. Eg, Insignia VXR comes with nigh on 320bhp, does 60 in 5 and a bit seconds, has Brembos, clever suspension, 4x4 and posh Recaros but the base model is as interesting a emulsion... is that any different to say an RS6 or an M3 or a Focus RS? All are based on a rather uninteresting base model in some way, shape or form. I think the fact Vauxhall (and others) are still making slightly unhinged versions of their base line up should be applauded to be honest, more so in today's world... and yes, Vauxhall make some pretty tragic cars but end of the day, as do most other manufactuers and the fact that people are buying them, regardless of demographic suggests there is a demand for a 1.6 Astra with wheel trims and cloth seats in the same sense that there is a demand for a 1.6 BMW 1 series with bugger all spec. Granted, these models are scoffed at by the driving Gods and those where the badge is everything but as true car enthusiasts, the fact Vauxhall chose to stick 19" wheels and a 300bhp engine in a base model Astra should be respected in the same sense that Volkswagen did the same to a Golf or Audi did to an A3 and let's be honest, their core line up in pretty tragic too.
If somebody told me they had a 3 series... it wouldn't even register any emotions, same as somebody saying they had an Insignia - neither excite in any way but if said 3 series was an M3 or said Insignia was a VXR, as a car enthusiast I think I'd be rather impressed and to be fair, the fact somebody had seen past the badge and opted for the Insignia VXR would probably command more respect. I like underdogs, there's just something a bit more endearing about them. But then I drive a Volvo estate.
Thesprucegoose said:
my mum paid 9.5k for a brand new vx corsa 1.2 design. list was 13k. It is pretty good car, a premium german would be 5-6k more, less standard equipment all for a badge. Even a dacia seems poor value in comparison.
Absolutely spot on. We have had Vauxhalls in our extended family, and I , now semi-retired- did some admin and general dogsbody stuff at an old established small garage- vauxhall were no better or worse than average, the prejudice seems strange. Astras didn’t handle like Mk.1 Focus (Foci? (F you too I know) ) but were considered better built. This view came not from bar room “wisdom”, but from hard nosed cynical traders.The value argument is reinforced when you look at the “funi moni” asked for humdrum VWs. There’s some unjustified snobbery out there.so called said:
My daughter rolled her Corsa 5 years ago.
The Fire and Police men that attended told her that they were very impressed with how the roof had held up and that it had kept her alive.
Vauxhall are OK in m book.
With the Gap Insurance, we upgraded her to an Astra.
Of course they are. It’s all about silly prejudice.The Fire and Police men that attended told her that they were very impressed with how the roof had held up and that it had kept her alive.
Vauxhall are OK in m book.
With the Gap Insurance, we upgraded her to an Astra.
Because they are smart people that realise if you are just using a car as a runaround daily hack (which most people do) you may as well have something fairly cheap that does a decent job of getting you from A to B, is probably one of the cheapest cars to fix and is surprisingly hard wearing. Why spend extra 1000's on a car to rack up miles and get carpark dings/children vomiting in the back, when you can have a very competent car which costs half as much. No brainer to me really. I really liked mine and still regret selling it as is well documented in other threads.
Just heard the self congratulatory radio advert for some insignia derivative winning family car of the year or something like that. The braindead idiot voicing the advert can't even pronounce succinctly correctly and clearly nobody else at vx picked it up. Typifies the intelligence of their average driver.
There's another one as well where they say how proud they are to be a British brand, as if that actually means anything.
There's another one as well where they say how proud they are to be a British brand, as if that actually means anything.
Toyoda said:
Just heard the self congratulatory radio advert for some insignia derivative winning family car of the year or something like that. The braindead idiot voicing the advert can't even pronounce succinctly correctly and clearly nobody else at vx picked it up. Typifies the intelligence of their average driver.
There's another one as well where they say how proud they are to be a British brand, as if that actually means anything.
Perhaps you simply didn’t understand it? There's another one as well where they say how proud they are to be a British brand, as if that actually means anything.
The only reason I won't buy a vauxhall is due to the interior quality and design. I'd much rather have something where it looks and feels better, i.e. a German car. Especially when it comes to executive saloons. I haven't sat in an insignia, but I imagine it wouldn't be on par with say a 5 serie or an E class.
Vauxhall doesn't appeal to me one bit because they're aimed at a different market. Now if they made cars that had qualities that I looked for, then they may get a look in.
Vauxhall doesn't appeal to me one bit because they're aimed at a different market. Now if they made cars that had qualities that I looked for, then they may get a look in.
I havent owned a Vauxhall since my chevette when I was 20, but my wife is on her second zafira and I have had the use of several as hire cars when my company car was broken.
My wifes zafiras have both been crap, the ride is terrible, over sprung and under damped (the newest one is better but still not good) the SRI insignia I had managed to ride and handle badly, the dash was cheap and nasty and if it rained and you opened the hatch you got drenched. The 1.4 astra I had was properly s
t, gutless and because you had to thrash it to get it to move the economy was terrible, the hyundai i30I had the following week was faster, nicer to sit in and did nearly 20mpg more on the same journey despite allegedly having less power.
I also had a zafira tourer as a hire car and hated that too.
I will admit I much prefer any ford to the equivalent vauxhall, even though they are equally cheaply made the fords just feel better, handle better and are comfier.
My wifes zafiras have both been crap, the ride is terrible, over sprung and under damped (the newest one is better but still not good) the SRI insignia I had managed to ride and handle badly, the dash was cheap and nasty and if it rained and you opened the hatch you got drenched. The 1.4 astra I had was properly s
t, gutless and because you had to thrash it to get it to move the economy was terrible, the hyundai i30I had the following week was faster, nicer to sit in and did nearly 20mpg more on the same journey despite allegedly having less power.I also had a zafira tourer as a hire car and hated that too.
I will admit I much prefer any ford to the equivalent vauxhall, even though they are equally cheaply made the fords just feel better, handle better and are comfier.
hooblah said:
The only reason I won't buy a vauxhall is due to the interior quality and design...
So you've looked at them all then?hooblah said:
I haven't sat in an insignia, but I imagine it wouldn't be on par with say a 5 serie or an E class.
So you haven't looked at them all then (or any of them?)... I wonder how you know that the interior quality is better (or worse) in a generic German brand than a Vauxhall?hooblah said:
Vauxhall doesn't appeal to me one bit because they're aimed at a different market.
A quick look shows that your new 5 series list starts at £36k, a 3 series at £28k and an Insignia at £20k so you're right, they are aimed at a different market - a 1 series also starts at £21k !!hooblah said:
Now if they made cars that had qualities that I looked for, then they may get a look in.
What qualities would they be then? For me, a car needs to do a job of transporting me around and it needs to be interesting and fun. By 'fun' I don't necessarily mean that it can be the fastest point to point or waft me around in near silence, just something to keep me interested. The most boring car I ever had was a Golf sportline estate 2.0 tdi, the only parts of the 55 mile commute I used to remember were getting in and then getting out of it the other end. I can however remember my Astra 1.4 merit, and the 2 mk1 vectras - especially the way I could get the second Vectra to understeer coming out of a particular roundabout when I was a bit heavy with the right foot...Edited by S2r on Saturday 22 September 10:14
S2r said:
hooblah said:
The only reason I won't buy a vauxhall is due to the interior quality and design...
So you've looked at them all then?No, but I've sat in a few over the years.
hooblah said:
I haven't sat in an insignia, but I imagine it wouldn't be on par with say a 5 serie or an E class.
So you haven't looked at them all then (or any of them?)... I wonder how you know that the interior quality is better (or worse) in a generic German brand than a Vauxhall?Read my comment above. Unless they've somehow upped the interior quality without increasing prices. I know because I've sat in various Vauxhall's over the years. The materials, fit, and finish isn't on par with the German counterparts. Does quality differ between models? I'd imagine that it would be consistent throughout the range
hooblah said:
Vauxhall doesn't appeal to me one bit because they're aimed at a different market.
A quick look shows that your new 5 series list starts at £36k, a 3 series at £28k and an Insignia at £20k so you're right, they are aimed at a different market - a 1 series also starts at £21k !!what I should have said is that they don't appeal to my senses.
hooblah said:
Now if they made cars that had qualities that I looked for, then they may get a look in.
What qualities would they be then? For me, a car needs to do a job of transporting me around and it needs to be interesting and fun. By 'fun' I don't necessarily mean that it can be the fastest point to point or waft me around in near silence, just something to keep me interested. The most boring car I ever had was a Golf sportline estate 2.0 tdi, the only parts of the 55 mile commute I used to remember were getting in and then getting out of it the other end. I can however remember my Astra 1.4 merit, and the 2 mk1 vectras - especially the way I could get the second Vectra to understeer coming out of a particular roundabout when I was a bit heavy with the right foot...I like a car that looks good, handles well, provides a bit of excitement, and has the feel of quality. I also tend to go for larger cars, and a powerful engine seals the deal. I don't see vauxhall putting a 3 litre, yet alone a 5 litre in anything (besides the vxr8 which isn't a vauxhall anyway).
Previous cars of mine include a Mercedes e300 estate, Audi S4 estate, honda accord type r, bmw 330ci coupe to name a few. That should give you an idea of what I'm into, and Vauxhall's don't really fit into that.
I will say though, I had an astra estate hire car last year that I thought was ok. It didn't set the world on fire but i wouldn't say no. Whether I'd buy one or not is a different matter.
Edited by S2r on Saturday 22 September 10:14[/footnote]
[footnote]Edited by hooblah on Saturday 22 September 11:07I suspect it comes down to a few things:
1) Ford vs Vauxhall rivalry. I drove previous generation Focus's/Mondeos that people were 'raving' about, they drove like any other standard FWD car.
2) Era when they made some pretty average kit lasts in peoples mind inc driving capability
Personally I think they make some of the best looking run around's of any of the mainstream manufacturers, I think they also upped their game on interior quality/driving feel e.t.c
If I was in the game for a car in that budget, I wouldn't hesitate to consider a Vauxhall. I saw one of their GTC (Astra Coupe's) on the road the other day. Looked good.
1) Ford vs Vauxhall rivalry. I drove previous generation Focus's/Mondeos that people were 'raving' about, they drove like any other standard FWD car.
2) Era when they made some pretty average kit lasts in peoples mind inc driving capability
Personally I think they make some of the best looking run around's of any of the mainstream manufacturers, I think they also upped their game on interior quality/driving feel e.t.c
If I was in the game for a car in that budget, I wouldn't hesitate to consider a Vauxhall. I saw one of their GTC (Astra Coupe's) on the road the other day. Looked good.
Davie said:
Hmmm, trying not to come across as argumentative here nor an arse... but is that not the same as pretty much any mainstream manufacturer that has "hot" version of whatever model in their line up? It could be argues that if you took any number of hot hatches / performance saloons or estates and watered them down to the base / entry level version, every one of said entry level versions is hardly exciting and will have flaws in somebodies eyes. Eg, Insignia VXR comes with nigh on 320bhp, does 60 in 5 and a bit seconds, has Brembos, clever suspension, 4x4 and posh Recaros but the base model is as interesting a emulsion... is that any different to say an RS6 or an M3 or a Focus RS? All are based on a rather uninteresting base model in some way, shape or form.
I think the fact Vauxhall (and others) are still making slightly unhinged versions of their base line up should be applauded to be honest, more so in today's world... and yes, Vauxhall make some pretty tragic cars but end of the day, as do most other manufactuers and the fact that people are buying them, regardless of demographic suggests there is a demand for a 1.6 Astra with wheel trims and cloth seats in the same sense that there is a demand for a 1.6 BMW 1 series with bugger all spec. Granted, these models are scoffed at by the driving Gods and those where the badge is everything but as true car enthusiasts, the fact Vauxhall chose to stick 19" wheels and a 300bhp engine in a base model Astra should be respected in the same sense that Volkswagen did the same to a Golf or Audi did to an A3 and let's be honest, their core line up in pretty tragic too.
If somebody told me they had a 3 series... it wouldn't even register any emotions, same as somebody saying they had an Insignia - neither excite in any way but if said 3 series was an M3 or said Insignia was a VXR, as a car enthusiast I think I'd be rather impressed and to be fair, the fact somebody had seen past the badge and opted for the Insignia VXR would probably command more respect. I like underdogs, there's just something a bit more endearing about them. But then I drive a Volvo estate.
I agree with everything you say there. And in fact I think the Insignia VXR is a great example. People on this site bemoaned the end of the Passat R36, when the Insignia VXR was more powerful and came with a manual gearbox.I think the fact Vauxhall (and others) are still making slightly unhinged versions of their base line up should be applauded to be honest, more so in today's world... and yes, Vauxhall make some pretty tragic cars but end of the day, as do most other manufactuers and the fact that people are buying them, regardless of demographic suggests there is a demand for a 1.6 Astra with wheel trims and cloth seats in the same sense that there is a demand for a 1.6 BMW 1 series with bugger all spec. Granted, these models are scoffed at by the driving Gods and those where the badge is everything but as true car enthusiasts, the fact Vauxhall chose to stick 19" wheels and a 300bhp engine in a base model Astra should be respected in the same sense that Volkswagen did the same to a Golf or Audi did to an A3 and let's be honest, their core line up in pretty tragic too.
If somebody told me they had a 3 series... it wouldn't even register any emotions, same as somebody saying they had an Insignia - neither excite in any way but if said 3 series was an M3 or said Insignia was a VXR, as a car enthusiast I think I'd be rather impressed and to be fair, the fact somebody had seen past the badge and opted for the Insignia VXR would probably command more respect. I like underdogs, there's just something a bit more endearing about them. But then I drive a Volvo estate.
However I disagree with "I think the fact Vauxhall (and others) are still making slightly unhinged versions of their base line up...."
As far as I'm aware, there are no Vauxhalls like that right now
hooblah said:
S2r said:
hooblah said:
The only reason I won't buy a vauxhall is due to the interior quality and design...
So you've looked at them all then?No, but I've sat in a few over the years.
hooblah said:
I haven't sat in an insignia, but I imagine it wouldn't be on par with say a 5 serie or an E class.
So you haven't looked at them all then (or any of them?)... I wonder how you know that the interior quality is better (or worse) in a generic German brand than a Vauxhall?Read my comment above. Unless they've somehow upped the interior quality without increasing prices. I know because I've sat in various Vauxhall's over the years. The materials, fit, and finish isn't on par with the German counterparts. Does quality differ between models? I'd imagine that it would be consistent throughout the range
hooblah said:
Vauxhall doesn't appeal to me one bit because they're aimed at a different market.
A quick look shows that your new 5 series list starts at £36k, a 3 series at £28k and an Insignia at £20k so you're right, they are aimed at a different market - a 1 series also starts at £21k !!what I should have said is that they don't appeal to my senses.
hooblah said:
Now if they made cars that had qualities that I looked for, then they may get a look in.
What qualities would they be then? For me, a car needs to do a job of transporting me around and it needs to be interesting and fun. By 'fun' I don't necessarily mean that it can be the fastest point to point or waft me around in near silence, just something to keep me interested. The most boring car I ever had was a Golf sportline estate 2.0 tdi, the only parts of the 55 mile commute I used to remember were getting in and then getting out of it the other end. I can however remember my Astra 1.4 merit, and the 2 mk1 vectras - especially the way I could get the second Vectra to understeer coming out of a particular roundabout when I was a bit heavy with the right foot...I like a car that looks good, handles well, provides a bit of excitement, and has the feel of quality. I also tend to go for larger cars, and a powerful engine seals the deal. I don't see vauxhall putting a 3 litre, yet alone a 5 litre in anything (besides the vxr8 which isn't a vauxhall anyway).
Previous cars of mine include a Mercedes e300 estate, Audi S4 estate, honda accord type r, bmw 330ci coupe to name a few. That should give you an idea of what I'm into, and Vauxhall's don't really fit into that.
I will say though, I had an astra estate hire car last year that I thought was ok. It didn't set the world on fire but i wouldn't say no. Whether I'd buy one or not is a different matter.
Edited by S2r on Saturday 22 September 10:14[/footnote]
[footnote]Edited by hooblah on Saturday 22 September 11:07I’ve had 18 months with my leased Astra 1.4 turbo Elite Nav now.
Interior quality is very good, okay the leather doesn’t compete with the leather in my FIL’s Audi S3, but it’s a nice place to sit.
The apple car play is an excellent feature, and whilst this sort of thing is just a little extra used to draw people in, for my commute this is exactly the sort of thing I want.
The Nav is pretty good, and the traffic warnings very handy.
The engine is actually very good, driven sensibly it returned 50 MPG on a recent trip to the Norfolk coast, and thrashed a bit it returns around 32-36. It goes well with the turbo. Handling is massively better than the older models, and actually IMO no better or worse than my old mans Focus which are always hailed as the pinnacle of hatchback handling fun.
It looks alright, not amazing, but let’s remember this isn’t my pride and joy, it’s serving a purpose, and doing it very well, this is probably why people buy Vauxhall!
The new Insignia I happen to think looks rather good too.
It goes back in March and whilst I won’t miss it, I wouldn’t hesitate to have another.
Oh and the best bit is it’s costing £170 a month with 15,000 miles p/a. There’s not a great deal else brand new out there with all the bells and whistles I could find for my commute for anywhere near similar money. The Seat Leon with the same sort of engine and smaller spec was £280, and while it looks better, I just didn’t think it was worth it.
Interior quality is very good, okay the leather doesn’t compete with the leather in my FIL’s Audi S3, but it’s a nice place to sit.
The apple car play is an excellent feature, and whilst this sort of thing is just a little extra used to draw people in, for my commute this is exactly the sort of thing I want.
The Nav is pretty good, and the traffic warnings very handy.
The engine is actually very good, driven sensibly it returned 50 MPG on a recent trip to the Norfolk coast, and thrashed a bit it returns around 32-36. It goes well with the turbo. Handling is massively better than the older models, and actually IMO no better or worse than my old mans Focus which are always hailed as the pinnacle of hatchback handling fun.
It looks alright, not amazing, but let’s remember this isn’t my pride and joy, it’s serving a purpose, and doing it very well, this is probably why people buy Vauxhall!
The new Insignia I happen to think looks rather good too.
It goes back in March and whilst I won’t miss it, I wouldn’t hesitate to have another.
Oh and the best bit is it’s costing £170 a month with 15,000 miles p/a. There’s not a great deal else brand new out there with all the bells and whistles I could find for my commute for anywhere near similar money. The Seat Leon with the same sort of engine and smaller spec was £280, and while it looks better, I just didn’t think it was worth it.
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