What is going to happen to our roads?

[kambites]

RedSwede said:

One way or another, we need more money hitting the budgets for road repairs (and other civic infrastructure and institutions too) IMO.

I don't disagree, but I think that statement is as true of almost every other country in Europe (and in some cases very much more true).

[foppo]

Never mind.

Brexit will cure it all.We will have all that spare money we spend on the E.U all for us.

Roads Social services Hospitals and many more goodies are coming our way.>)

[Ares]

foppo said:

Never mind.

Brexit will cure it all.We will have all that spare money we spend on the E.U all for us.

Roads Social services Hospitals and many more goodies are coming our way.>)

Who needs Brexit when we could have Corbyn. He'll raise £Squillians in tax that everyone will just automatically pay, but only a couple of mega rich will be hit by. Take ownership of all public services and utilities without have to spend a penny, and their massive profits will fund everything.

Just look to Venezuela, their roads are like a Grand Prix circuit.

[Dog Star]

The state of the roads round here (Rossendale) is just mind blowing now - to a following vehicle I must look like I'm drunk as I swerve around all the holes. Some are being patched - although that's not really what's happening - they are literally having blobs of tarmac dropped in them, no attempt at all to make it smooth or flat etc.

There are even holes on the M62. It's downright dangerous.

Billions and billions need spending on the roads. Isn't going to happen.

[Guvernator]

Ares said:

V8mate said:

Watching ze Germanz, as they are currently replacing the old motorway network is truly a civil engineering sight to behold. They're building proper new roads capable of handling another 50+ years of traffic.

....there is also the issue that it takes 2 yrs (plus a year of overruns) to build a short stretch of dual carriageway here when in most countries, the same road take a fraction of the time.

In China, they can build a railways station in a day!!

The German's aren't broke, we are. Remind me who won the war again?

I do agree we seem to take 4 times as long to build things here and that's despite using a lot of overseas labour now who should know all about putting stuff up double quick. I really don't understand why though, what is it H&S, red tape?

I've seen whole buildings put up overseas, quicker then it would take to do an extension\loft conversion here, it really is baffling at times.

[Yipper]

Krikkit said:

The root of the problem is the lack of money given to councils - our council had to save hundreds of millions of pounds from its budgets, and as such the quality and frequency of repairs has noticeably reduced.

Part of it (imho) is the type of repair done - a lot of them are blasted with very coarse tarmac and hardly tamped down. As soon as the road freezes in winter it just fractures and disintegrates. The potholes that were fixed last year are now back with a vengeance.

The amount of money is not the problem.

The problem is how councils choose to spend it.

And councils choose to spend their money on copious backend staff with generous pensions, rather than fix frontline problems such as cr*ppy roads or homeless beggars. Because they know it p*sses people off and they will blame Tory cuts and pressure May into spending more or vote in Labour who will shower councils with limitless free cash (debt).

Councils today are less "public service providers" and more "militant political parties".

[Gargamel]

Whilst the roads of Surrey are pretty bad, particularly in the back lanes

You can at least see what is going on

https://www.surreycc.gov.uk/roads-and-transport/ro...


Extremely informative

[Guvernator]

Yipper said:

The amount of money is not the problem.

The problem is how councils choose to spend it.

And councils choose to spend their money on copious backend staff with generous pensions, rather than fix frontline problems such as cr*ppy roads or homeless beggars. Because they know it p*sses people off and they will blame Tory cuts and pressure May into spending more or vote in Labour who will shower councils with limitless free cash (debt).

Councils today are less "public service providers" and more "militant political parties".

Another post where I agree with you, hope it's not catching.

I can't speak for every council obviously but the one local council I did some work for, this described the scenario perfectly. Make cuts to essential front line staff and services or worse, outsource them to the lowest bidder while keeping loads of back office driftwood and middle-management "gainfully" employed then blame the government for not giving them enough money.

[RedSwede]

Since I suppose the issue of tax is inevitable in this conversation, I looked up this. It is from Wikipedia so 100% guaranteed correct...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by...

Interesting that the UK is so low in it's tax contributions - especially since we have probably well above average overseas-aid and defence spend compared to some. Coupled with what is claimed to be vast public spending waste, it does give the impression that the outlook for domestic finances are not too bright.

[Dog Star]

Guvernator said:

The German's aren't broke, we are. Remind me who won the war again?

I do agree we seem to take 4 times as long to build things here and that's despite using a lot of overseas labour now who should know all about putting stuff up double quick. I really don't understand why though, what is it H&S, red tape?

I've seen whole buildings put up overseas, quicker then it would take to do an extension\loft conversion here, it really is baffling at times.

It seems here that building a relief road, for example, is beset by huge costs of "inquiries" and then the NIMBYs drag it to court and then the soap dodgers get in on the act. Millions and millions squandered before anyone even lifts a shovel.

In the last 20 years the only improvements that I can recall to the UK motorway network have been the M60 being finished and the M6(T). In the meantime in urban areas we have seen side roads blocked off, millions of speed humps installed and lanes stolen from traffic to create bus lanes (which themselves create pinchpoints and huge jams). It's utterly and totally st.

[ruhall]

RedSwede said:

This is a serious question - not just a moan thread.

Our roads are terrible - we know this. They are an order of magnitude worse than most of Europe that I have experienced, even a decent percentage of former Eastern-block countries are far better.

Since the start of this year, the weather has taken a particular toll, and the patches-on-patches are completely failing. Trunk roads will no doubt get a semi-passable repair, but there doesn't seem to be anything planned for the thousands of miles of important but more minor roads. Certainly not the full scale resurface that is needed.

Generally, 10-15 years ago most roads were OK now they're not. What does everyone expect the situation to be in 10-15 years time? At the same rate of deterioration, I think a lot of routes may be impassible. Can that be left to happen?

Yes, it's already happening. One lane near me that gradually succumbed to water/surface erosion, has now been made subject of a No Motor Vehicles order. No doubt an order and a few signs were cheaper than a repair.

Another lane gradually became blocked after several collapses of the hedgerow and after no action by the local council for years, no doubt because other routes were available, one local even tried to clear it with a tractor, much to the annoyance of said council.

A drain cover was repaired locally within the past fortnight; it's already starting to break up around the edges. It took longer for them to set-up all of the warning signs and temporary traffic lights than it did to repair the hole.

[Boydie88]

The A1 near me between Baldock and Biggleswade has just had some nice new dark tarmac laid down which appears a good job.

Sadly it resembles the stuff that was put down in the village I work in that melted on the hottest day of the year last year leaving a surface that resembles the moon..

[Hammy98]

Vigilante justice must be taken in the form of a fluorescent crudely drawn phalluce in problem areas to force a resurface.

Seem to remember this being done before and tagged 'wksy'.

Edited by Hammy98 on Monday 19th February 15:15

[Chrismawa]

No money to fix the roads but plenty to install speed humps, cameras, bus lanes, and traffic lights.

[emicen]

Dog Star said:

It seems here that building a relief road, for example, is beset by huge costs of "inquiries" and then the NIMBYs drag it to court and then the soap dodgers get in on the act. Millions and millions squandered before anyone even lifts a shovel.

In the last 20 years the only improvements that I can recall to the UK motorway network have been the M60 being finished and the M6(T). In the meantime in urban areas we have seen side roads blocked off, millions of speed humps installed and lanes stolen from traffic to create bus lanes (which themselves create pinchpoints and huge jams). It's utterly and totally st.

- A1/M1/A1(M) upgrades
- Completion of the M74-M6 (no longer M74-A74-M6)
- M8 / M73 / M74 upgrades
- M74 through Glasgow Southside completion to link to M8
- M80 upgrade removing A80 & Auchenkilns roundabout pandemonium
- Queensferry crossing (not a perfect solution but damn sight better than the old Forth Road Bridge)

I’m sure there’s plenty more I don’t know about having not driven on them personally, but there’s been significant works on all those roads during my driving lifetime.

[captain_cynic]

Guvernator said:

I do agree we seem to take 4 times as long to build things here and that's despite using a lot of overseas labour now who should know all about putting stuff up double quick. I really don't understand why though, what is it H&S, red tape?

IMHO, the problem with public works in the UK is two-fold.

1. Bureaucracy. Britain seems to love it's bureaucracy. A form for everything and 3-6 weeks to read it, heaven forbid you forget to dot a lower case j otherwise you'll have to start all over again. Red tape production is the third biggest industry in the UK. The public service seems to be filled with Jobsworths at the management level just trying to do as little as possibly until retirement. OK, that's embellished a little bit but there are a lot of list checkers that we could consolidate into fewer roles and fewer delays.

2. Govt contracts are license to bill. Roadworks and many other services that are ostensibly supplied by the government are outsourced to private contractors, these contractors know that a job cant be left half finished so they only half finish things until the 3rd or 4th additional cheque clears. They quote low because they know that they'll never be held to account for not delivering on time or on budget (or even at all in some cases). Govt contracts need punishment clauses like private contracts and these need to be enforced, sadly if the govt did this the Daily Wail would scream about the Bolsheviks or some such nonsense until the govt caved.

OTOH, you dont want to go too far the other way. China can build a railway station in a day... but I wouldn't want to wait there for a train. You can have fast, cheap or quality... China too often picks fast and cheap.

[crankedup]

As a former motorcycle rider I cannot imagine the dangers facing riders today. Trying to pick out potholes whilst riding along in the pitch black darkness, because we cannot affor road lighting, Hitting a large pothole at any speed bears not thinking about.

[Guvernator]

Dog Star said:

It seems here that building a relief road, for example, is beset by huge costs of "inquiries" and then the NIMBYs drag it to court and then the soap dodgers get in on the act. Millions and millions squandered before anyone even lifts a shovel.

In the last 20 years the only improvements that I can recall to the UK motorway network have been the M60 being finished and the M6(T). In the meantime in urban areas we have seen side roads blocked off, millions of speed humps installed and lanes stolen from traffic to create bus lanes (which themselves create pinchpoints and huge jams). It's utterly and totally st.

Yep pinch points, traffic calming measure, speed humps, cycle lanes (that are mostly deserted) seem to spring up at an almost alarming rate so the money for those is obviously coming from somewhere. At times I can't help but think there is some secret plan to get cars off the road in the UK as they couldn't make things worse if they actively tried.

[Limpet]

RedSwede said:

kambites said:

Speak for yourself. I've driven in about half of countries in the EU and a good few outside it and I've encountered very few places with better roads than Hampshire and an awful lot which are much, much worse.

Well maybe Hampshire is the exception, as I haven't driven there much recently. Or maybe you've driven the other half of European countries that I have, or maybe I needed to be more explicit and say "our road surface is terrible". But really, my experience is that other countries road surfaces are in general not breaking up and completely failing in the way much of the UK is. I'm not saying they're perfect, but they are not crumbling away without proper repairs.

One way or another, we need more money hitting the budgets for road repairs (and other civic infrastructure and institutions too) IMO.

I am in Hampshire, right on the border with Surrey, and the roads are by far the worst they've been in the 15 years I've lived here. Within a mile of my house, I can think of four pieces of road where you have to deviate from your normal course to avoid potholes.

In the council's defence, part of the problem in this area at least, seems to be caused by utility companies digging up entire stretches of road, and then making cheap patchwork bodge repairs which seem to last about six months before breaking up. We've had SSE replacing electricity cables on my estate recently, and the state they have left the roads and pavements in beggars belief. They've just dug trenches, and patched them afterwards, often with the repair not even sitting at the same level as the surrounding surface. It's only a matter of a few good frosts before it all starts to fall apart.

I would like to see legislation passed to force any organisation digging up a road for any reason at all, to pay to have the road properly resurfaced to an agreed standard.

I haven't ridden a motorbike for about 10 years now, but I often think the dilapidated state of our roads must now be a serious hazard for motorcyclists.

Edited by Limpet on Monday 19th February 15:33

[Limpet]

captain_cynic said:

OTOH, you dont want to go too far the other way. China can build a railway station in a day... but I wouldn't want to wait there for a train. You can have fast, cheap or quality... China too often picks fast and cheap.

Also, the health and well-being of the workers is a much lower priority than speed and cost of construction. Deaths and serious injuries are common, and accepted, on these large construction projects. I moan about our Health and Safety culture as much as anyone else, but it's preferable to the Chinese setup.