Tell me about British Leyland
Discussion
Eyersey1234 said:
P5BNij said:
Dalmahoy said:
I read once that during the 70's and early 80's, one of the largest viewing television programmes was The Professionals.
During the early episodes, the cars driven in the programme were provided by BL but at the end of every day's filming they were returned back to BL.
Problem being - when they handed the show for example a red Dolomite Sprint one day and the following, they handed over a yellow Dolomite Sprint!
The producers spat the dummy and Ford then stood in with the Granada, RS2000 and Capri and the rest is history.
Product placement at its finest.
Not quite right but you've got the general gist of it - the cars were kept at the production company's base in Middlesex but BL often wanted them back for a few days at a time to loan them out to other people, when they did return the cars they often refused to start or broke down which wreaked havoc on the production schedule. Some of the cars promised by BL never turned up, Cowley was originally supposed to have had a dark blue Daimler Double Six which never arrived which is why they ended up using the ex- New Avengers SD1 until it was replaced by the Granada. Filming started in June '77 and by October the last BL cars had been sent back, a meeting had been set up to sort things out but the BL representative who was invited couldn't give MkI Productions any guarantee that things would be any better so stunt co-ordinator Pete Brayham suggested they get in touch with his contact at Ford from his days on The Sweeney and that was the end of the contract with BL. Part of the problem had been that the contact point at BL changed almost weekly with messages not getting through to the right person.During the early episodes, the cars driven in the programme were provided by BL but at the end of every day's filming they were returned back to BL.
Problem being - when they handed the show for example a red Dolomite Sprint one day and the following, they handed over a yellow Dolomite Sprint!
The producers spat the dummy and Ford then stood in with the Granada, RS2000 and Capri and the rest is history.
Product placement at its finest.
BMC / BL never seemed to appreciate product placement!
I'm also told that the Carry on Cabby film was to use Morris 1100s as the Glamcab cars but again due to BMCs disinterest Ford Cortinas were used instead as Ford offered the use of the press fleet for filming
The film was shot in the Summer of '68 but the Mk1 went out of production in September / October '67.
Edited by P5BNij on Sunday 25th February 15:02
Edited by P5BNij on Sunday 25th February 15:03
Edited by P5BNij on Sunday 25th February 15:04
The vast majority of the Minis wrecked - both in the 'practice' bit (awfully sorry) and off the cliff edge - were just old 850's. Tartan red and white were easy enough but Island blue ones had to be painted.
It's amusing how the red E Type has managed to survive but nothing else has.......
It's amusing how the red E Type has managed to survive but nothing else has.......
Eyersey1234 said:
How many of these are still around? Leyland trucks are part of DAF now, Leyland bus are part of Volvo, MG and Jaguar Land Rover are still trading but are any others?
As far as I can tell, the list looks like this:Cars:
Austin (car and commercial) - Dormant, name owned by SAIC, Longbridge factory nearly all demolished
Vanden Plas - Dormant, owned by JLR
Morris (car and commercial) - Dormant, named owned by SAIC, Cowley factory demolished in the late 1990s
MG - active, owned by SAIC, design office at Longbridge, production in China
Wolseley - dormant, owned by SAIC. Washwood Heath factory ended up as the LDV plant, closed in 2008
Riley - dormant, owned by BMW
Triumph - dormant, owned by BMW (car and bike operations split in the 1930s)
Rover (and Land Rover) - dormant, owned by JLR. Land Rover obviously very much still around.
Jaguar - obvious
Daimler - dormant, owned by JLR
Authi - closed down in 1975, factory is now the main VW Polo plant
Innocenti - sold by BL in 1976, became part of DeTomaso and closed in 1997.
Leyland Australia - production ceased in 1976, division sold by BL in 1982, became a bus/truck importer, bankrupt in 1998. The old Standard Motor Company factory in Melbourne was sold to Toyota in 1989 and closed in 1994.
Leykor (South Africa) - closed in 1984, sold to Chrysler.
Commercials:
Leyland Trucks - sold to DAF, then became part of Pacaar. Still a distinct and Leyland-based firm, builds all DAF 7.5tonners and RHD DAF HGVs. Bus division split from trucks in 1987, sold to Volvo in 1988, factory closed in 1994.
Scammell - merged into Leyland Trucks, see above, last commercial vehicle in 1988.
Daimler -merged into Leyland Trucks, see above, last commercial vehicle built in 1983
Guy - part of Jaguar pre-BL merger, merged into Leyland Trucks, see above, last commercial vehicle built in 1982
AEC - merged into Leyland Trucks, see above, last commercial vehicle built in 1979
Aveling-Barford - Spun-off from Leyland in 1988, made Barford dumper trucks until 2010.
Bristol Commercials - merged into Leyland Trucks, see above, last commercial vehicle built in 1983
Albion Motors - merged into Leyland Trucks, see above, last commercial vehicle built in 1980
Charles Roe - spun-off from Leyland in 1984 and became Optare. Now part of Ashok-Leyland.
Park Royal Vehicles - closed down in 1980.
Military:
Alvis - privatised in 1981,now part of BAE, name dormant since 2004.
Daimler - military vehicles ceased production in 1971.
Body:
Pressed Steel Fisher - Name dropped in 1994, the PSF plants became BMW Plants Oxford and Swindon.
Autobody Dies - uncertain.Probably didn't survive much past the closure of the Triumph Canley plant.
Industrial:
Leyland Tractors (ex-Nuffield) - sold to Marshall in 1982, production stopped in 1992. Some ex-Leyland designs still built in Turkey.
Coventry Climax - spun-off from BL in 1982, bankrupt in 1986. Now part of Cargotec, Coventry factory closed in 2009.
Invicta Bridge & Engineering - uncertain.
Miscellaneous:
SU Carburettors - sold by Rover in 1996, rights to the name, products and production in the hands of a new 'SU Carb Co' near Salisbury
Butec Electrical - sold to Prestolite in 1988, factory in Leyland closed in 2009.
Prestcold Fridges - spun-off in 1981, purchased by Copeland Compressors in 1983, name last used in the 1990s.
Fisholow Prefab Buildings - uncertain.
Nuffield Press - sold by BL in 1986 to Robert Maxwell. Then to Reed, then closed in 2011.
Note: Wolseley Motors has no link with Wolseley plc (of Plumb Center etc.) other than being named for the same person. Frederick Wolseley founded the Wolseley Sheep Shearing Machine Co. in 1887, with Herbert Austin as works manager. Looking to even out the very seasonal demand, Austin convinced Wolseley to produce cars, but the first models found little success. Wolseley sold the rights to the cars, and Austin's employment contract, to the Vickers armaments group, which founded the entirely new Wolseley Tool & Motor Car Co. with Herbert Austin as general manager in 1901. In 1905 Austin left Wolseley after falling out with the Vickers brothers - the latter wanted Austin to fit the cars with vertical engines, while Austin insisted on horizontal ones. Austin went and founded his own company, making cars with...vertical engines.
It was the Wolseley Tool & Motor Car Co. which made all the cars. The Wolseley Sheep Shearing Machine Co carried on making agricultural and industrial equipment, entirely seperate from anything to do with the car industry or BL, and became Wolseley plc in 1984. It changed its name to Ferguson (its US distributor chain) last year, ending 130 years of the Wolseley name.
Incidentally, Wolseley (which was renamed Wolseley Motors in 1914) went bankrupt in 1927 and became the subject of a bidding war between Herbert Austin and William Morris. Austin, who felt a great deal of personal attachment to the name and the company where he got his break into the industry, was agrieved that Morris wouldn't just step aside and let him buy what he saw as 'his' company. The bids kept escalating until Austin could go no further. You see Austin was bidding via the Austin Motor Company and his board and shareholders wouldn't let him use any more corporate funds. Morris was bidding for Wolseley outright, in cash, from his personal fortune. Austin couldn't win and Morris got Wolseley. That was the start of a great deal of the bitter Austin/Morris rivalry that would cause so much trouble for BMC and BL down the line, mostly on the Austin side. Herbert Austin became incredibly anti-Morris, which wasn't helped when the Morris Eight began outselling the Austin Seven. When Herbert and Leonard Lord came together (both with a huge grudge against all things Morris) the corporate vendetta got even worse.
Edited by 2xChevrons on Sunday 25th February 18:55
corozin said:
Visit the Gaydon Motor Museum and visit the Heritage wing for a complete guided tour through every POS that BL made back in the day. It's all there in all it's embarassing glory.
Coventry transport museum also worth a shout, both are interesting, but also in a way it makes you sad how it all ended.
Jimmy Recard said:
Great summary there! Not many people compile stuff like that
For complete compilation then, here are a few more bits of BL that weren't in the original list because they were either defunct by 1968 or formed after it:Standard (cars and commercial) - dropped in the UK in 1963, continued in India until 1988. Now dormant and owned by BMW.
Unipart - founded in 1974 from the merger of the BMC Spares and Stanpart parts divisions of the two parts of BL. Spun-off in 1987. In 2011 the actual automotive spares bit of the business was sold off to a seperate-but-also-called Unipart company which went bankrupt in 2014. The original Unipart, now a logistics and business services company, remains.
Beagle Aircraft - part of BMC via Pressed Steel Fisher. Was divested in 1966 to the government's Industrial Development Council. Went bankrupt with full order books in 1969. Rights inherited by Scottish Aviation, then to BAE Systems.
Thornycroft - built its last commercial vehicle in 1969, having been purchased by Leyland in 1962. The name was then used for the in-house marinised versions of the old Standard-designed diesel engines, and then was applied to marinised ex-BMC diesels of various sizes. Seems to have been divested from BL around the time of the Leyland Truck/Bus split (1986) but with the same product line, and then switched to marinised versions of Mitsubishi and Cummins diesels, was sold to an Indian company in the early 2000s and ceased trading in 2014.
In total BL was the holder of over 100 names and subsidiaries, including firms already folded into its constituents and various overseas divisions and joint ventures. The family tree was very tangled indeed.
Edited by 2xChevrons on Sunday 25th February 22:03
It was mentioned earlier about the lack of profitability. This was made worse by a range of factors, some within their control and some outside:
Wildly inaccurate projected sales figures
Substantial warranty costs
Poor £/$ exchange rate meant any US sales had little chance of profit. Led to death knell of MG and TR7.
Key countries in the Common Market placed tariffs on European sales, yet these tariffs were not placed on imports to the UK.
Wildly inaccurate projected sales figures
Substantial warranty costs
Poor £/$ exchange rate meant any US sales had little chance of profit. Led to death knell of MG and TR7.
Key countries in the Common Market placed tariffs on European sales, yet these tariffs were not placed on imports to the UK.
2xChevrons said:
As far as I can tell, the list looks like this:
Commercials:
Albion Motors - merged into Leyland Trucks, see above, last commercial vehicle built in 1980
Albion were sold to an American company in 1998; I think they now make axle assemblies and the like, still at their original site in Scotstoun where they've been since 1903.Commercials:
Albion Motors - merged into Leyland Trucks, see above, last commercial vehicle built in 1980
2xChevrons said:
As far as I can tell, the list looks like this:
Cars:
Austin (car and commercial) - Dormant, name owned by SAIC, Longbridge factory nearly all demolished
Vanden Plas - Dormant, owned by JLR
Morris (car and commercial) - Dormant, named owned by SAIC, Cowley factory demolished in the late 1990s
MG - active, owned by SAIC, design office at Longbridge, production in China
Wolseley - dormant, owned by SAIC. Washwood Heath factory ended up as the LDV plant, closed in 2008
Riley - dormant, owned by BMW
Triumph - dormant, owned by BMW (car and bike operations split in the 1930s)
Rover (and Land Rover) - dormant, owned by JLR. Land Rover obviously very much still around.
Jaguar - obvious
Daimler - dormant, owned by JLR
Authi - closed down in 1975, factory is now the main VW Polo plant
Innocenti - sold by BL in 1976, became part of DeTomaso and closed in 1997.
Leyland Australia - production ceased in 1976, division sold by BL in 1982, became a bus/truck importer, bankrupt in 1998. The old Standard Motor Company factory in Melbourne was sold to Toyota in 1989 and closed in 1994.
Leykor (South Africa) - closed in 1984, sold to Chrysler.
Commercials:
Leyland Trucks - sold to DAF, then became part of Pacaar. Still a distinct and Leyland-based firm, builds all DAF 7.5tonners and RHD DAF HGVs. Bus division split from trucks in 1987, sold to Volvo in 1988, factory closed in 1994.
Scammell - merged into Leyland Trucks, see above, last commercial vehicle in 1988.
Daimler -merged into Leyland Trucks, see above, last commercial vehicle built in 1983
Guy - part of Jaguar pre-BL merger, merged into Leyland Trucks, see above, last commercial vehicle built in 1982
AEC - merged into Leyland Trucks, see above, last commercial vehicle built in 1979
Aveling-Barford - Spun-off from Leyland in 1988, made Barford dumper trucks until 2010.
Bristol Commercials - merged into Leyland Trucks, see above, last commercial vehicle built in 1983
Albion Motors - merged into Leyland Trucks, see above, last commercial vehicle built in 1980
Charles Roe - spun-off from Leyland in 1984 and became Optare. Now part of Ashok-Leyland.
Park Royal Vehicles - closed down in 1980.
Military:
Alvis - privatised in 1981,now part of BAE, name dormant since 2004.
Daimler - military vehicles ceased production in 1971.
Body:
Pressed Steel Fisher - Name dropped in 1994, the PSF plants became BMW Plants Oxford and Swindon.
Autobody Dies - uncertain.Probably didn't survive much past the closure of the Triumph Canley plant.
Industrial:
Leyland Tractors (ex-Nuffield) - sold to Marshall in 1982, production stopped in 1992. Some ex-Leyland designs still built in Turkey.
Coventry Climax - spun-off from BL in 1982, bankrupt in 1986. Now part of Cargotec, Coventry factory closed in 2009.
Invicta Bridge & Engineering - uncertain.
Miscellaneous:
SU Carburettors - sold by Rover in 1996, rights to the name, products and production in the hands of a new 'SU Carb Co' near Salisbury
Butec Electrical - sold to Prestolite in 1988, factory in Leyland closed in 2009.
Prestcold Fridges - spun-off in 1981, purchased by Copeland Compressors in 1983, name last used in the 1990s.
Fisholow Prefab Buildings - uncertain.
Nuffield Press - sold by BL in 1986 to Robert Maxwell. Then to Reed, then closed in 2011.
Note: Wolseley Motors has no link with Wolseley plc (of Plumb Center etc.) other than being named for the same person. Frederick Wolseley founded the Wolseley Sheep Shearing Machine Co. in 1887, with Herbert Austin as works manager. Looking to even out the very seasonal demand, Austin convinced Wolseley to produce cars, but the first models found little success. Wolseley sold the rights to the cars, and Austin's employment contract, to the Vickers armaments group, which founded the entirely new Wolseley Tool & Motor Car Co. with Herbert Austin as general manager in 1901. In 1905 Austin left Wolseley after falling out with the Vickers brothers - the latter wanted Austin to fit the cars with vertical engines, while Austin insisted on horizontal ones. Austin went and founded his own company, making cars with...vertical engines.
It was the Wolseley Tool & Motor Car Co. which made all the cars. The Wolseley Sheep Shearing Machine Co carried on making agricultural and industrial equipment, entirely seperate from anything to do with the car industry or BL, and became Wolseley plc in 1984. It changed its name to Ferguson (its US distributor chain) last year, ending 130 years of the Wolseley name.
Incidentally, Wolseley (which was renamed Wolseley Motors in 1914) went bankrupt in 1927 and became the subject of a bidding war between Herbert Austin and William Morris. Austin, who felt a great deal of personal attachment to the name and the company where he got his break into the industry, was agrieved that Morris wouldn't just step aside and let him buy what he saw as 'his' company. The bids kept escalating until Austin could go no further. You see Austin was bidding via the Austin Motor Company and his board and shareholders wouldn't let him use any more corporate funds. Morris was bidding for Wolseley outright, in cash, from his personal fortune. Austin couldn't win and Morris got Wolseley. That was the start of a great deal of the bitter Austin/Morris rivalry that would cause so much trouble for BMC and BL down the line, mostly on the Austin side. Herbert Austin became incredibly anti-Morris, which wasn't helped when the Morris Eight began outselling the Austin Seven. When Herbert and Leonard Lord came together (both with a huge grudge against all things Morris) the corporate vendetta got even worse.
Aveling Barford is a name that resonates with corporate lawyesrs, because it was the subject of a crucial company law case in 1989 that held that sale of an asset at an undervalue constituted an unlawful reduction of capital, so that the directors' decision to sell was ultra vires and incapable of ratification by the shareholders.Cars:
Austin (car and commercial) - Dormant, name owned by SAIC, Longbridge factory nearly all demolished
Vanden Plas - Dormant, owned by JLR
Morris (car and commercial) - Dormant, named owned by SAIC, Cowley factory demolished in the late 1990s
MG - active, owned by SAIC, design office at Longbridge, production in China
Wolseley - dormant, owned by SAIC. Washwood Heath factory ended up as the LDV plant, closed in 2008
Riley - dormant, owned by BMW
Triumph - dormant, owned by BMW (car and bike operations split in the 1930s)
Rover (and Land Rover) - dormant, owned by JLR. Land Rover obviously very much still around.
Jaguar - obvious
Daimler - dormant, owned by JLR
Authi - closed down in 1975, factory is now the main VW Polo plant
Innocenti - sold by BL in 1976, became part of DeTomaso and closed in 1997.
Leyland Australia - production ceased in 1976, division sold by BL in 1982, became a bus/truck importer, bankrupt in 1998. The old Standard Motor Company factory in Melbourne was sold to Toyota in 1989 and closed in 1994.
Leykor (South Africa) - closed in 1984, sold to Chrysler.
Commercials:
Leyland Trucks - sold to DAF, then became part of Pacaar. Still a distinct and Leyland-based firm, builds all DAF 7.5tonners and RHD DAF HGVs. Bus division split from trucks in 1987, sold to Volvo in 1988, factory closed in 1994.
Scammell - merged into Leyland Trucks, see above, last commercial vehicle in 1988.
Daimler -merged into Leyland Trucks, see above, last commercial vehicle built in 1983
Guy - part of Jaguar pre-BL merger, merged into Leyland Trucks, see above, last commercial vehicle built in 1982
AEC - merged into Leyland Trucks, see above, last commercial vehicle built in 1979
Aveling-Barford - Spun-off from Leyland in 1988, made Barford dumper trucks until 2010.
Bristol Commercials - merged into Leyland Trucks, see above, last commercial vehicle built in 1983
Albion Motors - merged into Leyland Trucks, see above, last commercial vehicle built in 1980
Charles Roe - spun-off from Leyland in 1984 and became Optare. Now part of Ashok-Leyland.
Park Royal Vehicles - closed down in 1980.
Military:
Alvis - privatised in 1981,now part of BAE, name dormant since 2004.
Daimler - military vehicles ceased production in 1971.
Body:
Pressed Steel Fisher - Name dropped in 1994, the PSF plants became BMW Plants Oxford and Swindon.
Autobody Dies - uncertain.Probably didn't survive much past the closure of the Triumph Canley plant.
Industrial:
Leyland Tractors (ex-Nuffield) - sold to Marshall in 1982, production stopped in 1992. Some ex-Leyland designs still built in Turkey.
Coventry Climax - spun-off from BL in 1982, bankrupt in 1986. Now part of Cargotec, Coventry factory closed in 2009.
Invicta Bridge & Engineering - uncertain.
Miscellaneous:
SU Carburettors - sold by Rover in 1996, rights to the name, products and production in the hands of a new 'SU Carb Co' near Salisbury
Butec Electrical - sold to Prestolite in 1988, factory in Leyland closed in 2009.
Prestcold Fridges - spun-off in 1981, purchased by Copeland Compressors in 1983, name last used in the 1990s.
Fisholow Prefab Buildings - uncertain.
Nuffield Press - sold by BL in 1986 to Robert Maxwell. Then to Reed, then closed in 2011.
Note: Wolseley Motors has no link with Wolseley plc (of Plumb Center etc.) other than being named for the same person. Frederick Wolseley founded the Wolseley Sheep Shearing Machine Co. in 1887, with Herbert Austin as works manager. Looking to even out the very seasonal demand, Austin convinced Wolseley to produce cars, but the first models found little success. Wolseley sold the rights to the cars, and Austin's employment contract, to the Vickers armaments group, which founded the entirely new Wolseley Tool & Motor Car Co. with Herbert Austin as general manager in 1901. In 1905 Austin left Wolseley after falling out with the Vickers brothers - the latter wanted Austin to fit the cars with vertical engines, while Austin insisted on horizontal ones. Austin went and founded his own company, making cars with...vertical engines.
It was the Wolseley Tool & Motor Car Co. which made all the cars. The Wolseley Sheep Shearing Machine Co carried on making agricultural and industrial equipment, entirely seperate from anything to do with the car industry or BL, and became Wolseley plc in 1984. It changed its name to Ferguson (its US distributor chain) last year, ending 130 years of the Wolseley name.
Incidentally, Wolseley (which was renamed Wolseley Motors in 1914) went bankrupt in 1927 and became the subject of a bidding war between Herbert Austin and William Morris. Austin, who felt a great deal of personal attachment to the name and the company where he got his break into the industry, was agrieved that Morris wouldn't just step aside and let him buy what he saw as 'his' company. The bids kept escalating until Austin could go no further. You see Austin was bidding via the Austin Motor Company and his board and shareholders wouldn't let him use any more corporate funds. Morris was bidding for Wolseley outright, in cash, from his personal fortune. Austin couldn't win and Morris got Wolseley. That was the start of a great deal of the bitter Austin/Morris rivalry that would cause so much trouble for BMC and BL down the line, mostly on the Austin side. Herbert Austin became incredibly anti-Morris, which wasn't helped when the Morris Eight began outselling the Austin Seven. When Herbert and Leonard Lord came together (both with a huge grudge against all things Morris) the corporate vendetta got even worse.
Edited by 2xChevrons on Sunday 25th February 18:55
Connections between various companies are interesting, in a geeky way.
Triumph motor cars and Triumph motorbikes were originally part of the same company, and both were sold in the 1930s, to Standard and Ariel respectively. Triumph bicycles was sold to Raliegh. Triumph also had a German factory which made motorbikes and bicycles. It was split off in 1913. The German Triumph company started making typewriters, became Triumph Adler, was bought by VW, and then sold to Olivetti, before closing the typewriter factory down and becoming an imaging business, taken over by Kyocera.
Triumph motor cars and Triumph motorbikes were originally part of the same company, and both were sold in the 1930s, to Standard and Ariel respectively. Triumph bicycles was sold to Raliegh. Triumph also had a German factory which made motorbikes and bicycles. It was split off in 1913. The German Triumph company started making typewriters, became Triumph Adler, was bought by VW, and then sold to Olivetti, before closing the typewriter factory down and becoming an imaging business, taken over by Kyocera.
blade7 said:
Raygun said:
Just sold my 1972 Triumph Stag, would of drove that anywhere and the amount of Triumph Stags still surviving is proof BL products didn't all rot away within a decade.
I've owned 4 Stags, the last 25 years ago. They had a reputation for rot back then, but only one of them was rusting, ironically the newest a 78 mimosa. A good one is a lovely thing.Way back in the 60/70's I had a couple of Mini's, which were fun. But then I bought a Morris 1100. It came with a years MOT but, come the next one, it cost me a fortune (OK, at the time probably about £100!) and I could not believe how rusty it was for a car that was then only about 5 years old. And then the gearboc started making a funny noise, but that went away. Next time I changed the oil (engine/gearbox combined remember) the magnetic sump plug bought out around a half-inch length of ball bearing cage with it. I sold it while it was still running and spent the money on an engagement ring. Which has lasted FAR better! 
Followed by.... two Dolomite 1850's (couldn't afford a Sprint) both suffered terminal gearbox failures.
Then a Rover 2600 SD1, just blew up (spectacularly!) at about 100mph.
On the other hand I've had five Austin Healey Sprites (every model except the Mark II) and as I could weld by then and they were pretty bomb-proof mechanically not too much trouble and all great fun. In a sort of 70mph feels like 120mph way!
Overall, BL were rubbish!
Followed by.... two Dolomite 1850's (couldn't afford a Sprint) both suffered terminal gearbox failures.
Then a Rover 2600 SD1, just blew up (spectacularly!) at about 100mph.
On the other hand I've had five Austin Healey Sprites (every model except the Mark II) and as I could weld by then and they were pretty bomb-proof mechanically not too much trouble and all great fun. In a sort of 70mph feels like 120mph way!
Overall, BL were rubbish!
I remember the mini Metro being very popular when it was launched when I was a child.
BL became Austin Rover shortly afterwards and the Maestro and Montego launched, both underrated cars in my view, let down by initial lack of performance and stylish versions as well as quality control.
BL was plagued by lack of quality control and politics that are described well above, the car designs were often original and practical, Triumph Dolomite Sprint, Rover SD1, MGB, Stag all being nice designs. They were priced competitively in the UK, eg priced similar to Renault cars with larger Rovers being more expensive, but cheaper than eg Jaguar or BMW.
BL became Austin Rover shortly afterwards and the Maestro and Montego launched, both underrated cars in my view, let down by initial lack of performance and stylish versions as well as quality control.
BL was plagued by lack of quality control and politics that are described well above, the car designs were often original and practical, Triumph Dolomite Sprint, Rover SD1, MGB, Stag all being nice designs. They were priced competitively in the UK, eg priced similar to Renault cars with larger Rovers being more expensive, but cheaper than eg Jaguar or BMW.
Edited by mondeomk4 on Monday 26th February 20:17
The bottom line is that it was all going OK until some idiot kicked Honda in the nuts. Game over.
IIRC Triumph Acclaim was the first "BL Honda" closely followed by "Rover 800". Both absolutely fine. Then they "went it alone" and ended up with tat like a Mustang V8 in a Rover 800 and the absolutely unforgiveable CityRover. Meanwhile Honda has developed its own large and very successful factory in Swindon.
IIRC Triumph Acclaim was the first "BL Honda" closely followed by "Rover 800". Both absolutely fine. Then they "went it alone" and ended up with tat like a Mustang V8 in a Rover 800 and the absolutely unforgiveable CityRover. Meanwhile Honda has developed its own large and very successful factory in Swindon.
British Leyland also built this...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0opl1wdYzE
Which went into this...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjO2weDxABs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGaRHlcvBJQ
Much like the car divisions of Leyland, it was plagued all it's life by a reputation for unreliability (in my opinion not fully deserved) and was underpowered for the application, partly due to an increase in Chieftain's weight from the drawing board to prototype. I loved my time on them (1990 to about 1995) although they were a pain in the rump to maintain...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0opl1wdYzE
Which went into this...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjO2weDxABs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGaRHlcvBJQ
Much like the car divisions of Leyland, it was plagued all it's life by a reputation for unreliability (in my opinion not fully deserved) and was underpowered for the application, partly due to an increase in Chieftain's weight from the drawing board to prototype. I loved my time on them (1990 to about 1995) although they were a pain in the rump to maintain...
Father in law was an engineering apprentice at Austin mid sixties to mid seventies. He is considered by most that know him to be a genius mathematician and engineer and went on to develop CADCAM systems which were and are still viewed as world leading. He developed crash test simulators for them following the Ralph Nader books release in North America due to ever more stringent regs. Eventually he left and started his own private company which had divisions around the world.
He tells me that the problems were due to two things, a workforce controlled by borderline communist union leaders and management of departments by unqualified people. He told me his head of department was a former bus driver with no qualification other than being married to the sister of a senior member of management.
He tells me that the problems were due to two things, a workforce controlled by borderline communist union leaders and management of departments by unqualified people. He told me his head of department was a former bus driver with no qualification other than being married to the sister of a senior member of management.
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