Car turns left into police station across bike lane

[Hungrymc]

Without doubt the car driver made an error, not checking for, or not seeing the cyclist is off course a problem. Car has to take some responsibility. I do hope he isn’t in the habit of making that kind of move without making sure he’s aware of his surroundings. If he is, he’s and accident waiting to happen.

Cyclist rides too quickly into a clearly dangerous situation. Let’s hope that was also an error and not a “I’m entitled to be here” type judgment. If anyone doesn’t understand that extra caution is needed when passing junctions and driveways etc in traffic then they are an accident waiting to happen.

How many motorcycle crashes have we seen where a bike flashes through a junction at 90mph and expects everyone to understand and accommodate him because he has priority / right of way. Far too much discussion about the letter of the law without the context, and not enough discussion about people taking reasonable care and precaution.

[Ardennes92]

Interesting that the car crossed a solid white line, didn't reach the broken section before crossing the cycle way, more the cars fault but all road users should be prepared to stop in the safe distance they are maintaining!😎

[WinstonWolf]

JPJPJP said:

Cyclist doesn’t seem to have seen indicator ( or reacted as someone sensible might have done )

Motorist does not seem to have checked inside / cycle lane before manoeuvres

Even as a cyclist, I will say that was for the cyclist to avoid, whoever was legally at fault

Yeah, the only way that wasn’t a lack of self preservation on the cyclists part was if it was a left hook. Impossible to tell without more footage.

[saaby93]

There's always a huge issue with people not realising theyre being overtaken, particularly up the inside
If it was a bus lane with a bus coming up the inside.....

[Zigster]

If it had been a pedestrian walking along the footpath, would the car driver have been in the right to drive into them to access the police station? Or would, just possibly, the driver have waited until the entrance was clear?

[Getragdogleg]

Zigster said:

If it had been a pedestrian walking along the footpath, would the car driver have been in the right to drive into them to access the police station? Or would, just possibly, the driver have waited until the entrance was clear?

Pedestrians tend to move a lot slower...

[surveyor]

Ireland. tick.
Toyota Driver. tick.

My experience of Toyota drivers in Ireland is they need treating with care and are best avoided.

VW drivers are also best avoided over there - not least because they are the fastest car on the road and then some...

[anonymous-user]

I just can't see how riding in a cycle lane on the inside of traffic, with left turnings, at that speed can be justified in any way. Bike lane or not. If I undertook on a motorbike at that speed differential I'd justifiably be called an idiot (I know it's a cycle lane and not technically undertaking but you know what I mean).

Just way too fast a speed differential to blame the car driver in any way.

I rode motorbikes in London for years. I was fast, and a dedicated filterer, frequently on the inside, but that speed on the inside of possible turning cars. Never.

[nickfrog]

SmoothCriminal said:

Should be able to stop if you see an obstruction what if that was a kid or person crossing the road.

Are you sure ? If you're doing 20 and a kid walks out literally in front of you where you haven't even had the time to hit the brake pedal, do you think it's still your fault ? What could you have done to avoid it ? Drive at 2 mph just in case a kid may cross the road ?

Edited by nickfrog on Monday 19th February 19:44

[DaveCWK]

Is there a YouTube link? Dailymail website is just too painful on mobile.

[Hungrymc]

nickfrog said:

Are you sure ? If you're doing 20 and a kid walks out literally in front of you where you haven't even had the time to hit the brake pedal, do you think it's still your fault ? What could you have done to avoid it ? Drive at 2 mph just in case a kid may cross the road ?

Edited by nickfrog on Monday 19th February 19:44

The problem with all these possible scenario is they don’t have enough detail to really answer - which is deliberate a lot of the time to try and steer to an answer.

Another example. If you’re driving at 20mph and you can see a kid heading toward the road possibly to step out in front of you, do you just carry on at 20 because you have priority? Or do you start to prepare for the kid doing what it looks like the kid is going to do?

ETA : I’m not saying that you’re wrong. Your analogy sums up the situation from one perspective pretty reasonably. I think mine does the same from the other, and both have credence. That’s why I think this one isn’t black and white and has some shared responsibility based on what we have seen.

Edited by Hungrymc on Monday 19th February 20:05

[TooMany2cvs]

Zigster said:

If it had been a pedestrian walking along the footpath, would the car driver have been in the right to drive into them to access the police station? Or would, just possibly, the driver have waited until the entrance was clear?

If a jogger had come tonking down the pavement and run into the side of the car as it crossed...?

[sisyphal]

As there's a clearly marked cycle lane. I think the car driver has to take responsibility for that one. Broken white lines mean the car is moving across lane and has a duty to look out for a bike in the cycle lane.

That's said it's a bad layout and the cyclist didn't help themselves. A bit more care and awareness they could've likely avoided it, even though it was their right of way.

[hyphen]

TTmonkey said:

I think a very large problem with cycle lanes that are integrated with roads in the UK is the issue of momentum.

Cyclists cover ground differently from car drivers. They get up to speed, and want to maintain it. Building up a head of speed in urban environments takes effort and time on a bike, and I see cyclists slow slightly but not coming totally off 'the gas' when in traffic. They maintain the momentum, often going through junctions and ignoring side turnings.

I don't think the road planners give this issue enough attention when putting cycle lanes in.

Yup, some cycists will do anything at all to 'maintain momentum' as you put it. I don't think Road Planners should give this issue too much attention though, otherwise they may as well put signs up at junctions saying 'Cyclists allowed through red lights' and so on.

Instead I would put the onus on cyclists to use their brains and slow as needed - vehicles would also love to maintain momentum at any cost, but they know it would be stupid to do so.

And make them take a test and get a license (driver and cyclist here).

[BGarside]

Test and licence. Did you forget to mention 'road tax'?

I can't see how testing and licencing would help in any way. It seems to have had no effect in reducing the number of stupid, ignorant, selfish morons on the roads in motor vehicles so why do you assume it would make any difference to cyclists?

The standard of driving currently is the worst I've seen and actual traffic policing virtually non-existent.

[hornmeister]

If you look at the whole video the cyclist is bombing up the inside of slow / stationary traffic.

The turning car is moving slowly and had been indicating for some time. Likely also that it had stationary traffic behind it obscuring the fast moving cyclist from his mirrors and the driver will be more likely focussing on the police car in fthe turning and potential pedestrians crossing in front. The bike makes little or no attempt to slow or change direction and its actually a broken white line in-front of the turning, not solid as previously posted.
As far as I'm concerned there's mitigating circumstances for the car and if the bike was travelling at a more sensible pace and cyclist more aware, the accident could have been avoided. I think it's a 50:50.

[MrGman]

These threads pop up from time to time and all we look to do is blame someone.

[captain_cynic]

The Selfish Gene said:

maybe he did check his mirror? Bike going way too fast to predict and in the second he checked his mirror didn't see it.

Biker 100% idiot - also wearing black, no light etc etc

This.

Cyclist could have been hidden behind another vehicle or object and impossible to see. Even if the driver did the proper mirror, signal and blind spot checks there's no guarantee that the cyclist was visible.

This is why rule number 1 of defensive driving or riding is assume no-one else has seen you.

saaby93 said:

There's always a huge issue with people not realising theyre being overtaken, particularly up the inside
If it was a bus lane with a bus coming up the inside.....

Vehicles are not meant to overtake (or undertake) a vehicle signalling to turn or at an intersection. The car was in a legal place to make that turn.

This applies to all vehicles and passing on the left or the right. Please see rule 167 of the Highway Code, even if the driver didn't check their mirrors the cyclist is still 100% at fault.

[saaby93]

captain_cynic said:

Vehicles are not meant to overtake (or undertake) a vehicle signalling to turn or at an intersection. The car was in a legal place to make that turn.

This applies to all vehicles and passing on the left or the right. Please see rule 167 of the Highway Code, even if the driver didn't check their mirrors the cyclist is still 100% at fault.

they may not have anticipated overtaking on the left

HC167 said:

Rule 167

DO NOT overtake where you might come into conflict with other road users. For example

- approaching or at a road junction on either side of the road
- where the road narrows
- when approaching a school crossing patrol
- between the kerb and a bus or tram when it is at a stop
- where traffic is queuing at junctions or road works
- when you would force another road user to swerve or slow down
- at a level crossing
- when a road user is indicating right, even if you believe the signal should have been cancelled. Do not take a risk; wait for the signal to be cancelled
- stay behind if you are following a cyclist approaching a roundabout or junction, and you intend to turn left
- when a tram is standing at a kerbside tram stop and there is no clearly marked passing lane for other traffic.

[hyphen]

This incident happened in Ireland, would they not have their own Highway code type rules?

So you need to post that one

Edited by hyphen on Tuesday 20th February 13:08