Confessions of a car flipper...

[TurboHatchback]

kayzee said:

TurboHatchback said:

I can see why people do this, if you could flip a Porsche and profit by the price of a house then it would be hard not to take the chance. What I don't get is why the manufacturers let this happen, surely if the market will take the whole supply at £500k per car then why not sell them for that price rather than let some shady trader take all that profit? The fact that the phenomenon exists surely implies their pricing is wrong and they could be making much more money.

That wouldn't work. Made a £250k car £500k and people would flip it for £750k...

There's always a price threshold at which the cars will no longer all sell (even if ridiculous), I don't understand why you would charge any less than £1 under this? Otherwise you're just giving away money.

[Shakermaker]

TurboHatchback said:

There's always a price threshold at which the cars will no longer all sell (even if ridiculous), I don't understand why you would charge any less than £1 under this? Otherwise you're just giving away money.

Because there aren't as many people willing to buy it at the inflated price. As the poster a few above says, make ones less than the market demands.

100% of the buyers will take it at the list price, verses what, 1-2% who will then flip it for money.

We had a thread on here last year about the chap with the Aston Martin that got painted the wrong colour. Aston Martin wouldn't let him sell the car on even though he could make loads more money doing so than he had paid, if he did sell it on, he'd be blacklisted from buying their cars in future...

[FoxtrotOscar1]

Surely this is only a problem for the already mega rich that can afford the new inflated prices anyway?

I understand it's not nice per se but its business.


I imagine for a lot of the buyers £100k - £200k is the same as £1 - £2k for us mortals.

[Atomic12C]

I did think about it for a couple of seconds but then I'm just too busy work work commitments.

On top of that I always thought flipping purely relied on the market of silly impatient buyers.

In that a buyer would normally spec a car and wait for delivery from the dealer. Then buy at 'market price'.

If that buyer is just plain impatient and can't wait for delivery, they then turn to the over-priced flippers.
But as I've never been one to follow fashions, and as fashions can change quickly, I've always thought that flipping could land you with a car (or numerous cars) that potentially would not sell. (Or sell for a significant loss).


edit to add : my first consideration was of the Cayman GT4, I knew they were going to be in demand when first launched, but then I thought Porsche would make plenty to sell.
So its always a case of balancing up how many impatient buyers there would likely be and then factor in the competition of other 'flippers' etc.
Just didn't have the time to invest.

Edited by Atomic12C on Tuesday 20th February 15:44

[Mr Peel]

bad company said:

When the Porsche Boxster was launched I ordered one for Mrs BC. There was a long delay which from memory was due to problems making the engines so I bought Mrs BC a TVR instead. The problem was that I forgot to cancel the Porsche and a few months later it arrived.

People say PH has gone downhill but where else can you read posts like this?

[AyBee]

Being honest, I'd struggle not to - I'd probably keep it for a few months first, but £200k, tax free, is difficult to ignore for all but the richest of people.

[DonkeyApple]

Shakermaker said:

TurboHatchback said:

There's always a price threshold at which the cars will no longer all sell (even if ridiculous), I don't understand why you would charge any less than £1 under this? Otherwise you're just giving away money.

Because there aren't as many people willing to buy it at the inflated price. As the poster a few above says, make ones less than the market demands.

100% of the buyers will take it at the list price, verses what, 1-2% who will then flip it for money.

We had a thread on here last year about the chap with the Aston Martin that got painted the wrong colour. Aston Martin wouldn't let him sell the car on even though he could make loads more money doing so than he had paid, if he did sell it on, he'd be blacklisted from buying their cars in future...

Precisely. It’s price arbitrage. The manufacturer has to select at price at which 100% of the stock will be sold. The individual sets his price based on the maximum just one other individual will pay.

[Valgar]

The manufacturers should increase the prices on the initial production and state clearly that the price will decrease after a time.

If its a special edition just increase the price, there's obviously a market for it where people are happy to spend that kind of money.

[bristolracer]

Mr Peel said:

bad company said:

When the Porsche Boxster was launched I ordered one for Mrs BC. There was a long delay which from memory was due to problems making the engines so I bought Mrs BC a TVR instead. The problem was that I forgot to cancel the Porsche and a few months later it arrived.

People say PH has gone downhill but where else can you read posts like this?

I forgot the milk again,I know there's something else I've forgotten. Did I lock the door? Put the cat out?

[M1C]

Well, not many personal admissions on here so far!

I'll change that. To hell with the consequences, here goes:

Since 2001ish, i've managed to flip the following and made.....

£200 on a 306

£400 on a Merc C180

£600 on a Primera

£400 on a Megane

£1200 on a Focus

£200 on a Saxo

£130 on a Yaris

£30 on a Polo

£250 on a Civic

Haters gonna hate.................

I'm pleased to day i've kept my feet on the ground and i dont think the money has changed me as a person

[Shakermaker]

M1C said:

Well, not many personal admissions on here so far!

I'll change that. To hell with the consequences, here goes:

Since 2001ish, i've managed to flip the following and made.....

£200 on a 306

£400 on a Merc C180

£600 on a Primera

£400 on a Megane

£1200 on a Focus

£200 on a Saxo

£130 on a Yaris

£30 on a Polo

£250 on a Civic

Haters gonna hate.................

I'm pleased to day i've kept my feet on the ground and i dont think the money has changed me as a person

Better than me.

I've made money on precisely 2 cars

I made £25 on a Vauxhall Cavalier, after a year of ownership

I made £500 on a Renault Clio that I bought and "did up" a bit on my driveway.

But to counter that, I've probably lost about £20,000 on other car purchases

[ghost83]

Bought a 6yr old corsa spent 10k on it wife fell pregnant split it down to a bare shell with every but and bolt sold

Added up I got 17.5k and owned it 3yrs

Made a profit of 7k in total

Went and got a mortgage and put it on a house as a deposit with the other 28k I’d got

Happy days!

Me and the missus were talking and we genuinely thought about selling our house for 250-260k to then look at buying the new special edition Ferrari but he risks were too high even though we could have doubled our money!

And Ferrari told us 7 months ago I wouldn’t get an allocation anyway as I’d never owned a Ferrari

[M1C]

ghost83 said:

Bought a 6yr old corsa spent 10k on it wife fell pregnant split it down to a bare shell with every but and bolt sold

Added up I got 17.5k and owned it 3yrs

Made a profit of 7k in total

Went and got a mortgage and put it on a house as a deposit with the other 28k I’d got

Happy days!

Me and the missus were talking and we genuinely thought about selling our house for 250-260k to then look at buying the new special edition Ferrari but he risks were too high even though we could have doubled our money!

And Ferrari told us 7 months ago I wouldn’t get an allocation anyway as I’d never owned a Ferrari

Similar here.

I approached Ferrari and asked if i could be put onto the waiting list for this vehicle. I was willing to sell my house, partner and both children to raise enough for a deposit - my Ferrari link was that i one owned a Fiat Panda 100HP manufactured by their Parent company Fiat - and that my mother indeed still owns a Panda!

I'm still waiting for the call back.

Their loss!

[InitialDave]

Yes, that's a good point, if you're willing to engage in the effort and get a bit Steptoe & Son, under certain circumstances breaking a car can make a lot more money than selling it as a going concern. I've rescued myself from some rather poor purchasing decisions through doing that.

[JuniorD]

ghost83 said:

Bought a 6yr old corsa spent 10k on it wife fell pregnant split it down to a bare shell with every but and bolt sold

Added up I got 17.5k and owned it 3yrs

Made a profit of 7k in total

Went and got a mortgage and put it on a house as a deposit with the other 28k I’d got

Happy days!

Me and the missus were talking and we genuinely thought about selling our house for 250-260k to then look at buying the new special edition Ferrari but he risks were too high even though we could have doubled our money!

And Ferrari told us 7 months ago I wouldn’t get an allocation anyway as I’d never owned a Ferrari

You could always split the house down and sell it brick by brick, you might get £350-£400k for it!

[n17ves]

ghost83 said:

Bought a 6yr old corsa spent 10k on it wife fell pregnant split it down to a bare shell with every but and bolt sold

Added up I got 17.5k and owned it 3yrs

Made a profit of 7k in total

So going by your maths, the 6 year old corsa only cost you £500 initially? Although I am more amazed anyone would pay £17.5k for a corsa

ghost83 said:

Me and the missus were talking and we genuinely thought about selling our house for 250-260k to then look at buying the new special edition Ferrari but he risks were too high even though we could have doubled our money!

And Ferrari told us 7 months ago I wouldn’t get an allocation anyway as I’d never owned a Ferrari

Is this not the whole issue with the current bubble - everyone is now a 'savvy' car investor hoping to make quick buck on flipping a car they cant really afford/don't really have any interest in owning which is over inflating the market...

Cant wait for the bubble to burst tbh and for normality to be restored.

[DonkeyApple]

I don’t have any issue with car flippers. They are simply an element of a free market economy.

Whether my experience is the norm or an anomaly, I do not know but the two people that I know who flip cars regularly have blood ties to dealerships and share the spoils. It has certainly given me the overall impression that flipping like very many speculative activities around a market place that has no regulation is mostly carried out by those on the inside.

[crosseyedlion]

DonkeyApple said:

I don’t have any issue with car flippers. They are simply an element of a free market economy.

Whether my experience is the norm or an anomaly, I do not know but the two people that I know who flip cars regularly have blood ties to dealerships and share the spoils. It has certainly given me the overall impression that flipping like very many speculative activities around a market place that has no regulation is mostly carried out by those on the inside.

That's the problem I have with it, its not a free market! If anyone with the means to order these cars was allowed to get on the list on a first come first served basis - I don't think we would have an issue with it.

[NickCQ]

DonkeyApple said:

Shakermaker said:

TurboHatchback said:

There's always a price threshold at which the cars will no longer all sell (even if ridiculous), I don't understand why you would charge any less than £1 under this? Otherwise you're just giving away money.

Because there aren't as many people willing to buy it at the inflated price. As the poster a few above says, make ones less than the market demands.

100% of the buyers will take it at the list price, verses what, 1-2% who will then flip it for money.

We had a thread on here last year about the chap with the Aston Martin that got painted the wrong colour. Aston Martin wouldn't let him sell the car on even though he could make loads more money doing so than he had paid, if he did sell it on, he'd be blacklisted from buying their cars in future...

Precisely. It’s price arbitrage. The manufacturer has to select at price at which 100% of the stock will be sold. The individual sets his price based on the maximum just one other individual will pay.

But there is a certain circularity in this situation given that what a 'collector' is willing to pay is partly a function of the car's rarity.
You see this in the McLaren thread - the owners get riled when more cars are made than were promised whether its the sale of modified prototypes, GTR versions, convertibles etc etc.

[akirk]

AyBee said:

Being honest, I'd struggle not to - I'd probably keep it for a few months first, but £200k, tax free, is difficult to ignore for all but the richest of people.

I think that technically if you buy a car to flip you have to pay tax on the profit as it is a business transaction - HMRC are quite clear that being a dealer is about the reason you buy / sell not the quantity... - so you would probably have to also provide a warranty on it

While it could arguably be difficult to differentiate between the individual who buys a car and flips it immediately - and one who buys, drives for a while and then decides on a change - one potentially being taxable, the other not - I am surprised that HMRC hasn't got involved as they could easily get the information from the dealerships / if a car has minimal mileage on sale and the owner can't show that they are a collector with all their cars having low mileage, or that they have kept it for a while, or that they have driven it commensurate with other cars they own etc.

i.e. HMRC could very easily pursue flippers and take 40% tax off their profit - might put a few off!