RE: Porsche confirms the death of diesel
Discussion
shakotan said:
Toyota are binning diesel too.
My partner has just gone to buy a diesel Rav 4 and been told that even though a diesel option is listed, Toyota are not accepting any further order for diesel-engined passenger vehicles apart from Land Cruiser and Hi-Lux.
My local MINI dealer was saying that they have been targeted by MINI to reduce new diesel car sales to 7% for this year.My partner has just gone to buy a diesel Rav 4 and been told that even though a diesel option is listed, Toyota are not accepting any further order for diesel-engined passenger vehicles apart from Land Cruiser and Hi-Lux.
Jon_S_Rally said:
Once we've all been forced into EVs, how long is it going to be before they've changed their mind and decided that mining endless lithium and recycling batteries is the worst thing to ever happen to the world? All we're doing is changing from a reliance on fuels dug up from the ground in the Middle East to a reliance on fuel dug up from the ground in South America.
Erm, not really comparable. Current EVs contain typically 20kg-100kg of lithium. It's still there when the car is finished with. A car running on petrol and doing 40mpg for 200,000 miles will go through about 17,500kg of petrol, of which none will be left afterwards.Jon_S_Rally said:
Anyone with a genuine interest in reducing the environmental impact of transport would be advocating reducing the number of journeys that people have to make, i.e. more remote working, less reliance on the traditional office environment, etc etc etc.
That's true. If they were really determined, they would be taxing everyone out of commuting by car and into public transport, cycling, walking and living closer to work. Trouble is, we don't want to, and we have votes. Short of that, transitioning to a mode of personal transport which is capable of running on renewable energy and does not generate local emissions is an effective option.Re Diesel going out of style: Just noticed Chevy is introducing a brand new Inline-6 Diesel engine in the States. Which basically confirms that all that Diesel bashing in Europe, or to be precise against the German manufacturers is just a face of the economic war the U.S. is waging against everyone else, plus a parallel agitprop campaign of Tesla through some NGOs. And the European, again especially German comparadores and fifth column media are sucking it up to their masters on the East Coast and do their parts of damaging the German car industry.
RSchneider said:
Re Diesel going out of style: Just noticed Chevy is introducing a brand new Inline-6 Diesel engine in the States. Which basically confirms that all that Diesel bashing in Europe, or to be precise against the German manufacturers is just a face of the economic war the U.S. is waging against everyone else, plus a parallel agitprop campaign of Tesla through some NGOs. And the European, again especially German comparadores and fifth column media are sucking it up to their masters on the East Coast and do their parts of damaging the German car industry.
Sorry what?NomduJour said:
Simply down to the cost of reengineering for the new WLTP emissions tests.
Doesn’t seem that costly: https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2...fezst said:
RSchneider said:
Re Diesel going out of style: Just noticed Chevy is introducing a brand new Inline-6 Diesel engine in the States. Which basically confirms that all that Diesel bashing in Europe, or to be precise against the German manufacturers is just a face of the economic war the U.S. is waging against everyone else, plus a parallel agitprop campaign of Tesla through some NGOs. And the European, again especially German comparadores and fifth column media are sucking it up to their masters on the East Coast and do their parts of damaging the German car industry.
Sorry what?I really don't understand why it's the done thing in the petrol head community to dislike diesels?
I consider myself to be a petrol head and have a 911 in the garage as my 'fun' car - but for my daily drive - a diesel is perfect. I just want to surf that easily accessible torque in order to make casual discreet progress as I go about my daily business. I don't really care about an exciting engine note and hitting 8000rpm on my way to work. It's all about being fit for the intended purpose in my eyes and diesels are superb at what they do.
You can't argue against their popularity either. People buy them. Simple as that. I also think that the 'effect' of the VW diesel scandal in real life is actually pretty minimal despite the hype attributed to it in the media. The average Joe doesn't give two hoots about it - they just want a car that does the most MPG possible and typically speaking that means buying a diesel.
I consider myself to be a petrol head and have a 911 in the garage as my 'fun' car - but for my daily drive - a diesel is perfect. I just want to surf that easily accessible torque in order to make casual discreet progress as I go about my daily business. I don't really care about an exciting engine note and hitting 8000rpm on my way to work. It's all about being fit for the intended purpose in my eyes and diesels are superb at what they do.
You can't argue against their popularity either. People buy them. Simple as that. I also think that the 'effect' of the VW diesel scandal in real life is actually pretty minimal despite the hype attributed to it in the media. The average Joe doesn't give two hoots about it - they just want a car that does the most MPG possible and typically speaking that means buying a diesel.
some strange people mentioned on this thread and posting. some not understanding that diesel makes sense for people doing decent mileage and long individual trips regularly. others buying diesels for city driving and sub 5 mile commutes ,wtaf ! best of all the complete and utter morons conflating co2 with pollutants .
i first came to this site after reading a few things that, on top of being motoring enthusiasts, suggested a majority of posters were smarter than me and fairly interesting and worth reading. looks like i may have been wrong on one or two !
i first came to this site after reading a few things that, on top of being motoring enthusiasts, suggested a majority of posters were smarter than me and fairly interesting and worth reading. looks like i may have been wrong on one or two !
Howard- said:
captain_beaky said:
I really don't understand why it's the done thing in the petrol head community to dislike diesels?
I consider myself to be a petrol head and have a 911 in the garage as my 'fun' car
Because not everyone has a 911 in the garage as their fun car. I consider myself to be a petrol head and have a 911 in the garage as my 'fun' car
Not everyone is that lucky - some can't even afford a garage let alone even the 911. (I know in some areas of London a garage would make 911R prices look reasonable)
Its only in the last 20-25 years that diesel moved more mainstream, before then it was mostly vans, proper 4x4s (weren't they all 25 years ago?), trucks, people who towed or people who did serious miles.
fezst said:
RSchneider said:
Re Diesel going out of style: Just noticed Chevy is introducing a brand new Inline-6 Diesel engine in the States. Which basically confirms that all that Diesel bashing in Europe, or to be precise against the German manufacturers is just a face of the economic war the U.S. is waging against everyone else, plus a parallel agitprop campaign of Tesla through some NGOs. And the European, again especially German comparadores and fifth column media are sucking it up to their masters on the East Coast and do their parts of damaging the German car industry.
Sorry what?Basically its still the antithesis of "clean diesel efficiency", basically they've put a big torque, low HP engine into a car that can use it properly... as a workhorse. Its like saying that there's a diesel engine in the Toyota Hilux... hardly surprising. Ford also do diesel F150's.
Not sure what the rest of it is... sounds like he's off his meds (comparadores usually refers to an electrical circuit... and not sure why we're using Spanish when comparing US to German motor industries).
And this has nothing to do with the fact that the VW sourced diesels splutter out more Nox than a large lorry...
Love the way governments used to tell us diesel was the way to go due to lower Co2 (justifying more taxes imposed both diesel and petrol cars) and when to anyone with half a brain and a nose a diesel bloody well stinks and is obviously a lot dirtier (we're the only continent in the whole world to run diesel cars as the norm). Now that its been established that diesel kills 10's of thousands of people every year it an other fantastic opportunity to yet again raise more taxes on both diesel and petrol. As we switch to petrol cars they'll get more taxes as they use more fuel. Who the hell are they kidding!!! If they were serious about the issue on air pollution company tax rebates would be higher for petrol that diesel - and thats just not the case yet...
Love the way governments used to tell us diesel was the way to go due to lower Co2 (justifying more taxes imposed both diesel and petrol cars) and when to anyone with half a brain and a nose a diesel bloody well stinks and is obviously a lot dirtier (we're the only continent in the whole world to run diesel cars as the norm). Now that its been established that diesel kills 10's of thousands of people every year it an other fantastic opportunity to yet again raise more taxes on both diesel and petrol. As we switch to petrol cars they'll get more taxes as they use more fuel. Who the hell are they kidding!!! If they were serious about the issue on air pollution company tax rebates would be higher for petrol that diesel - and thats just not the case yet...
ChawenHalo said:
And this has nothing to do with the fact that the VW sourced diesels splutter out more Nox than a large lorry...
Love the way governments used to tell us diesel was the way to go due to lower Co2 (justifying more taxes imposed both diesel and petrol cars) and when to anyone with half a brain and a nose a diesel bloody well stinks and is obviously a lot dirtier (we're the only continent in the whole world to run diesel cars as the norm). Now that its been established that diesel kills 10's of thousands of people every year it an other fantastic opportunity to yet again raise more taxes on both diesel and petrol. As we switch to petrol cars they'll get more taxes as they use more fuel. Who the hell are they kidding!!! If they were serious about the issue on air pollution company tax rebates would be higher for petrol that diesel - and thats just not the case yet...
Be careful what you wish for! Tbh that will most likely happen at some point but most company cars are on 3 year leases and the fleet market is huge so they can't afford to rock that particular boat just yet or they'll lose votes and support from large companies.Love the way governments used to tell us diesel was the way to go due to lower Co2 (justifying more taxes imposed both diesel and petrol cars) and when to anyone with half a brain and a nose a diesel bloody well stinks and is obviously a lot dirtier (we're the only continent in the whole world to run diesel cars as the norm). Now that its been established that diesel kills 10's of thousands of people every year it an other fantastic opportunity to yet again raise more taxes on both diesel and petrol. As we switch to petrol cars they'll get more taxes as they use more fuel. Who the hell are they kidding!!! If they were serious about the issue on air pollution company tax rebates would be higher for petrol that diesel - and thats just not the case yet...
Once the general public have safely accepted diesels kill babies, they'll start to ramp up the taxation on company cars too and slowly wean the fleet managers off them.
What is odd is that they are already ramping up tax on EV cars, I thought they were supposed to be our saviours? It all just goes to show that at the end of the day, they don't really give a crap about saving the planet\us, their only interest is maintaining\increasing tax revenue and not losing too many votes while doing it.
ChawenHalo said:
And this has nothing to do with the fact that the VW sourced diesels splutter out more Nox than a large lorry...
Love the way governments used to tell us diesel was the way to go due to lower Co2 (justifying more taxes imposed both diesel and petrol cars) and when to anyone with half a brain and a nose a diesel bloody well stinks and is obviously a lot dirtier (we're the only continent in the whole world to run diesel cars as the norm). Now that its been established that diesel kills 10's of thousands of people every year it an other fantastic opportunity to yet again raise more taxes on both diesel and petrol. As we switch to petrol cars they'll get more taxes as they use more fuel. Who the hell are they kidding!!! If they were serious about the issue on air pollution company tax rebates would be higher for petrol that diesel - and thats just not the case yet...
If we really cared for the environment we'd walk every were or used reclaimed push bikes - manufacturing & using cars of any kind is highly polluting (as is sending an electric car into space to become space junk - I wonder how many miles Tesla's will need to do to off set the pollution caused by that). Some cars are ever so slightly less damaging than others. Love the way governments used to tell us diesel was the way to go due to lower Co2 (justifying more taxes imposed both diesel and petrol cars) and when to anyone with half a brain and a nose a diesel bloody well stinks and is obviously a lot dirtier (we're the only continent in the whole world to run diesel cars as the norm). Now that its been established that diesel kills 10's of thousands of people every year it an other fantastic opportunity to yet again raise more taxes on both diesel and petrol. As we switch to petrol cars they'll get more taxes as they use more fuel. Who the hell are they kidding!!! If they were serious about the issue on air pollution company tax rebates would be higher for petrol that diesel - and thats just not the case yet...
captain_beaky said:
I really don't understand why it's the done thing in the petrol head community to dislike diesels?
I consider myself to be a petrol head and have a 911 in the garage as my 'fun' car - but for my daily drive - a diesel is perfect. I just want to surf that easily accessible torque in order to make casual discreet progress as I go about my daily business. I don't really care about an exciting engine note and hitting 8000rpm on my way to work. It's all about being fit for the intended purpose in my eyes and diesels are superb at what they do.
You can't argue against their popularity either. People buy them. Simple as that. I also think that the 'effect' of the VW diesel scandal in real life is actually pretty minimal despite the hype attributed to it in the media. The average Joe doesn't give two hoots about it - they just want a car that does the most MPG possible and typically speaking that means buying a diesel.
The answer in bold above, you can have access to low down torque in a turbo petrol engine or EV, the only reason to buy diesel was cost, but we now know the cost was too high in other areas. I consider myself to be a petrol head and have a 911 in the garage as my 'fun' car - but for my daily drive - a diesel is perfect. I just want to surf that easily accessible torque in order to make casual discreet progress as I go about my daily business. I don't really care about an exciting engine note and hitting 8000rpm on my way to work. It's all about being fit for the intended purpose in my eyes and diesels are superb at what they do.
You can't argue against their popularity either. People buy them. Simple as that. I also think that the 'effect' of the VW diesel scandal in real life is actually pretty minimal despite the hype attributed to it in the media. The average Joe doesn't give two hoots about it - they just want a car that does the most MPG possible and typically speaking that means buying a diesel.
ITP said:
Never understood why someone would buy a diesel Porsche. The only reason to have a diesel is to save money if you do 10’s of thousands of miles on motorways.
It’s like paying top dollar to go to a 5 star restaurant but ordering beans on toast to keep the cost down.
Couldn't agree more. I get that diesels can be quite good these days, but I was always stunned to see people spending many thousands of pounds on premium cars - the Range Rover was always the example I chose - only to compromise the entire package in the interest of saving a few hundred quid a year on fuel. I just never got it...It’s like paying top dollar to go to a 5 star restaurant but ordering beans on toast to keep the cost down.
ChawenHalo said:
And this has nothing to do with the fact that the VW sourced diesels splutter out more Nox than a large lorry...
.........
Your statement would have some credibility if the VW group had announced that they were stopping production of all their diesel engines, however as they aren't I think you're misguided at best..........
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