RE: Porsche confirms the death of diesel
Discussion
ZX10R NIN said:
ITP said:
Maybe you could check with the clients how many miles per year they do and suggest they will be fine with a petrol version. Snap them out of the ‘diesel good, petrol bad’ mantra that has been around for years.
Looking at autotrader about 80% of all diesel macan’s appear to do less than 10k/year anyway.
I actually promote buy the right car for their individual circumstances rather than any fuel being better than the other, maybe you should try to have the same attitude Looking at autotrader about 80% of all diesel macan’s appear to do less than 10k/year anyway.
, and it’s right to point people to the right car for them, regardless of fuel type, as you say.The SQ5 owner you mentioned earlier is changing from a car which, I presume, was right for his circumstances before, regardless of fuel type, but now the buyer doesn’t want one because they are only petrol now.
Maybe he does 20k miles a year of course, or tows stuff a lot, then yes, he needs to change model now as a diesel would be better. Jag, BMW or whatever, as you say.
But if he only does 8k miles a year surely a petrol SQ5 is still the right car for him, if that’s the one he liked the most before.
What are the most common reasons (even low mileage users) people give to you for insisting on wanting a diesel. Is it just mpg and lower VED, or just they prefer the power delivery? It’s a genuine question, as you appear to work in this field, i can’t imagine its off-roading, or towing big caravans when it comes to SQ5,s or Macan’s!
t that drifts down from mainland china 
Hong Kong cough anyone ITP said:
Didn’t intend to come across with any attitude , and it’s right to point people to the right car for them, regardless of fuel type, as you say.
The SQ5 owner you mentioned earlier is changing from a car which, I presume, was right for his circumstances before, regardless of fuel type, but now the buyer doesn’t want one because they are only petrol now.
Maybe he does 20k miles a year of course, or tows stuff a lot, then yes, he needs to change model now as a diesel would be better. Jag, BMW or whatever, as you say.
But if he only does 8k miles a year surely a petrol SQ5 is still the right car for him, if that’s the one he liked the most before.
What are the most common reasons (even low mileage users) people give to you for insisting on wanting a diesel. Is it just mpg and lower VED, or just they prefer the power delivery? It’s a genuine question, as you appear to work in this field, i can’t imagine its off-roading, or towing big caravans when it comes to SQ5,s or Macan’s!
I have two that are changing one is border line doing 12k a year but tows his track car around the other does 15k a year & the real world mpg figures for the new SQ5 are poor in comparison to the older diesel., and it’s right to point people to the right car for them, regardless of fuel type, as you say.The SQ5 owner you mentioned earlier is changing from a car which, I presume, was right for his circumstances before, regardless of fuel type, but now the buyer doesn’t want one because they are only petrol now.
Maybe he does 20k miles a year of course, or tows stuff a lot, then yes, he needs to change model now as a diesel would be better. Jag, BMW or whatever, as you say.
But if he only does 8k miles a year surely a petrol SQ5 is still the right car for him, if that’s the one he liked the most before.
What are the most common reasons (even low mileage users) people give to you for insisting on wanting a diesel. Is it just mpg and lower VED, or just they prefer the power delivery? It’s a genuine question, as you appear to work in this field, i can’t imagine its off-roading, or towing big caravans when it comes to SQ5,s or Macan’s!
The first looks like he's going for the Maserati Levante the second is thinking of hanging onto his another year & then commit.
I don't tend to have low mileage diesel users I'd say the awareness started around four years ago when people with small cars Clio's/Focus's etc that were doing low miles realised the sums didn't add up & have been buying petrols to replace the diesel with.
Family transport 3 Series/Mondeo vehicles is a different matter, this is due to these more likely to be a Lease/PCP/PCH car at which point a lot of people don't care what's under the bonnet (unless it's under powered) they tend to care more about spec & monthlies.
Those buying used are more aware & are happy to buy according to their needs rather than the monthly costs, EV's aren't the all singing answer either I have a few customers looking forward to getting out of those too.
I think the answer is simple if you put the correct information out there the people will buy the right product for them, I've found that when you show people why a certain drivetrain is the one suited to their needs 9/10 times that's the way they go be it petrol/diesel/hybrid/EV all have their advantages & disadvantages.
With this being the second cycle since peoples mindset changed towards diesels I thought there might be some change in those low mileage users but in truth nothing has changed for them they buy the car that best suits their monthly expenditure.
Anytime a council MP etc wants to change policy or buying habits they could do it by providing the right information but there's no money in that so they create a new tariff then they play the age old divide & conquer so the people are arguing with each other rather than asking the tricky questions about this new tariff (or more pointedly why it's being rushed in) that's being introduced.
I hope that helps feel free to ask anymore questions.
RobDickinson said:
The large diesel suvs are the perfect place for ev conversion. They are large so can hold a lot of batteries
Which means you loose a lot of the load carrying space you've bought one for in the first place.........Not to mention if you've nowhere to plug the bloody thing into, what's the point.
aeropilot said:
Which means you loose a lot of the load carrying space you've bought one for in the first place.........
Because the model x doesnt have space? The batteries go in the chassis floor. As for nowhere to plug in perhaps on massive african safaris going 1000's of miles.
Not so much chelsea or knigtsbridge. and we'll have 1000km range ev suvs in the not too distant future
RobDickinson said:
Because the model x doesnt have space? The batteries go in the chassis floor.
I looked at a X5e thing prior to buying my X5d, and the rear load area floor was significantly higher because of the EV stuff underneath.RobDickinson said:
As for nowhere to plug in perhaps on massive african safaris going 1000's of miles.
Not so much chelsea or knigtsbridge. and we'll have 1000km range ev suvs in the not too distant future
Of course, I'll just run that 100m long extension cable down the pavement to wherever I have to park the car which is usually never outside my flat, and that's just in scummy outer London........ Not so much chelsea or knigtsbridge. and we'll have 1000km range ev suvs in the not too distant future
And that's ignoring the fact that there's no where to plug it in wherever its parked while at work........
Of course in your fantasy utopian world everything is OK.......troll.
ZX10R NIN said:
Audi/Porsche sales will hurt because of this I have clients that were looking to replace their SQ5's in for the new one but the petrol only new version has meant I'm now sourcing replacements from JLR/Mercedes & BMW as replacements.
Porsche sells 2/3 of its cars in countries where diesel passenger cars are an abbreviation, the 1 or 2 they'd lose in Europe are not going to hurt them in the slightest. Their sales in China are almost as much as their sales in all of Europe. In fact, losing a few diesel customers will be cheaper than keeping diesel engines in the cost savings of simplifying the production and logistics alone.
aeropilot said:
Quite.
A big, torquey diesel, is EXACTLY the right engine engine for a big SUV.
I've had never owned, or had desired to own a diesel car, during the 37 years I've been driving, prior to buying the X5 last year, but a big diesel engined SUV/4x4 is a no-brainer IMHO.
I agree with this, when I had my X5 4.8iS the petrol engine just didn't really make sense(I did love its engine though). The economy was dire and because the fuel tank was massive it cost an arm and a leg to fill it. A big, torquey diesel, is EXACTLY the right engine engine for a big SUV.
I've had never owned, or had desired to own a diesel car, during the 37 years I've been driving, prior to buying the X5 last year, but a big diesel engined SUV/4x4 is a no-brainer IMHO.
I feel a torque filled diesel engine makes more sense in a SUV, and the additional range/economy are a benefit, plus torque helps for towing etc.
A SUV is mostly about going slow and steady, so a really powerful petrol engine doesn't really suit its remit for me.
aeropilot said:
Of course, I'll just run that 100m long extension cable down the pavement to wherever I have to park the car which is usually never outside my flat, and that's just in scummy outer London........
And that's ignoring the fact that there's no where to plug it in wherever its parked while at work........
Of course in your fantasy utopian world everything is OK.......troll.
I think you’re being somewhat obtuse. And that's ignoring the fact that there's no where to plug it in wherever its parked while at work........
Of course in your fantasy utopian world everything is OK.......troll.
In the market of £100k premium SUVs the majority of owners have driveways and also live in the urban environment that are legislating rapidly against pure ICE. They also live in wealthy urban areas where street charging points for wealthy residents will be added very quickly. Then there is the SUV itself which lends itself perfectly to carrying a big stack of batteries.
While the cost of batteries remain high enough to mean that the average consumer will need to replace their ICE with hybrids to remain compliant where they must the premium SUV is the screamingly obvious car to run as a pure EV. The likes of Porsche and Land Rover are going to be at the forefront of this.
It’s all very straight forward and has no impact on people who live in flats in poorer areas who not only would struggle to buy a premium EV or charge it up on the street but absolutely no one is saying that they should or forcing them. The industry and all governments are backing hybrids because that is the product that works for everyone.
cerb4.5lee said:
aeropilot said:
Quite.
A big, torquey diesel, is EXACTLY the right engine engine for a big SUV.
I've had never owned, or had desired to own a diesel car, during the 37 years I've been driving, prior to buying the X5 last year, but a big diesel engined SUV/4x4 is a no-brainer IMHO.
I agree with this, when I had my X5 4.8iS the petrol engine just didn't really make sense(I did love its engine though). The economy was dire and because the fuel tank was massive it cost an arm and a leg to fill it. A big, torquey diesel, is EXACTLY the right engine engine for a big SUV.
I've had never owned, or had desired to own a diesel car, during the 37 years I've been driving, prior to buying the X5 last year, but a big diesel engined SUV/4x4 is a no-brainer IMHO.
I feel a torque filled diesel engine makes more sense in a SUV, and the additional range/economy are a benefit, plus torque helps for towing etc.
A SUV is mostly about going slow and steady, so a really powerful petrol engine doesn't really suit its remit for me.
So it’s only about the cost of fuel and any historic tax incentives so in short, money. If you’ve just slapped down £100k to buy yourself a nice big premium SUV you obviously don’t have to concern yourself over the price of the fuel.
The whole diesel premium SUV has always smacked of champagne tastes with beer money.
DonkeyApple said:
cerb4.5lee said:
aeropilot said:
Quite.
A big, torquey diesel, is EXACTLY the right engine engine for a big SUV.
I've had never owned, or had desired to own a diesel car, during the 37 years I've been driving, prior to buying the X5 last year, but a big diesel engined SUV/4x4 is a no-brainer IMHO.
I agree with this, when I had my X5 4.8iS the petrol engine just didn't really make sense(I did love its engine though). The economy was dire and because the fuel tank was massive it cost an arm and a leg to fill it. A big, torquey diesel, is EXACTLY the right engine engine for a big SUV.
I've had never owned, or had desired to own a diesel car, during the 37 years I've been driving, prior to buying the X5 last year, but a big diesel engined SUV/4x4 is a no-brainer IMHO.
I feel a torque filled diesel engine makes more sense in a SUV, and the additional range/economy are a benefit, plus torque helps for towing etc.
A SUV is mostly about going slow and steady, so a really powerful petrol engine doesn't really suit its remit for me.
So it’s only about the cost of fuel and any historic tax incentives so in short, money. If you’ve just slapped down £100k to buy yourself a nice big premium SUV you obviously don’t have to concern yourself over the price of the fuel.
The whole diesel premium SUV has always smacked of champagne tastes with beer money.
If money wasn't an object for me I'd be more than happy with a X5M on my drive. 
I've always had 5 star taste...but with a 1 star income!!
DonkeyApple said:
The whole diesel premium SUV has always smacked of champagne tastes with beer money.
I suspect that the car supply generally has been heavily influenced by company car taxation on user-choosers, but it looks to me as if full size SUVs tend to end up in the top BIK band whether petrol or diesel.DonkeyApple said:
A big displacement petrol pushrod V8 is exactly the right engine for an SUV. And electric motors also superb. A Diesel engine does the same job as a big pushrod V8 but is more complex, smelly and not as nice to drive.
So it’s only about the cost of fuel and any historic tax incentives so in short, money. If you’ve just slapped down £100k to buy yourself a nice big premium SUV you obviously don’t have to concern yourself over the price of the fuel.
The whole diesel premium SUV has always smacked of champagne tastes with beer money.
Except even the big gated, multi million pound houses near me tend to have diesel LR's or Porsche's on the drive. I'm not rich by any means but I earn enough to be able to afford a "premium SUV" and I still hate wasting money on fuel. Like I said previously, I think it's a psychological thing. Having a fun car that does less than 20mpg is acceptable in my mind, having a family wagon that does the same is not as the journeys are usually undertaken for necessity not fun and you tend to do them a hell of a lot more. I probably wouldn't buy a family car that did less than 30mpg, even if I was a millionaire.So it’s only about the cost of fuel and any historic tax incentives so in short, money. If you’ve just slapped down £100k to buy yourself a nice big premium SUV you obviously don’t have to concern yourself over the price of the fuel.
The whole diesel premium SUV has always smacked of champagne tastes with beer money.
Annoying. My V8 Diesel Cayenne does 650 miles to a tank, pulls a 3.5 tonne trailer like it isn't there and doesn't handle like a boat. I've even had an indicated 168 out of it on the Autobahn during a run to Trier. Plus it does it all with a nice deep V8 rumble.
For someone that does a lot of motorway miles, carries heavy loads and cares about driving there are few cars that compare IMHO.
For someone that does a lot of motorway miles, carries heavy loads and cares about driving there are few cars that compare IMHO.
DonkeyApple said:
A Diesel engine does the same job as a big pushrod V8 but is more complex, smelly and not as nice to drive.
The whole diesel premium SUV has always smacked of champagne tastes with beer money.
I know where you’re coming from, but the torque delivery of modern big turbo diesels is perfect for something like a Range Rover - lots of low-rpm torque makes for relaxed and effortless progress. The whole diesel premium SUV has always smacked of champagne tastes with beer money.
You also need to stop for fuel 50% less frequently (V8 vs V8) - longer range, fewer times stood at the pump.
NomduJour said:
DonkeyApple said:
A Diesel engine does the same job as a big pushrod V8 but is more complex, smelly and not as nice to drive.
The whole diesel premium SUV has always smacked of champagne tastes with beer money.
I know where you’re coming from, but the torque delivery of modern big turbo diesels is perfect for something like a Range Rover - lots of low-rpm torque makes for relaxed and effortless progress. The whole diesel premium SUV has always smacked of champagne tastes with beer money.
You also need to stop for fuel 50% less frequently (V8 vs V8) - longer range, fewer times stood at the pump.
But Porsche know where all their customers live and know how many miles they do so will have worked out how many such consumers they risk losing compared to how many will switch to petrol, hybrid or even EV. Certainly most Cayennes in the ads don’t exactly have high mileage.
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