Why is extra horsepower so expensive?

[Danxr46]

Just what do you think it would do using only 2nd gear?? In either case, the CTR is still quicker 'in gear' than your 330D between 30-50 mph.

You were selective on the acceleration times so they flatter what your car claims to do, without regarding the gear and any shifts the CTR was under to support your claim that your remapped engine torque figures being the decisive metric.

Edited by TwinExit on Friday 2nd March 14:57

[/quote

The times they achieved for the type r in the autoexpress test were 6.0 secs flat to 60mph which is marginally slower, fact! In gear the 30-50mph time is around the same but certainly not faster but also with regards to gears you don’t make sense yourself as yes some magazines use rolling times which also gives the cars an obvious advantage so to eradicate the advantage or even it out I said that any possible gear changes can balance that out. Also in the link below it states the times and the gears so if you want to carry on speaking about changing from 1st to second at 30 then you can however that isn’t information applicable to what I was stating which is shown in the magazine test. Either way whether it a fraction here or there, in th ‘real’ world a type r would not ‘get away’ or ‘leave for dead’ or ‘smoke’ the diesel. Especially as they both have roughly the same HP bit one with far less torque.

The link below shows the tested times

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/honda/civic/92097/hon...

[Ahbefive]

Whichever is quicker by a fraction of a second is pretty irrelevant, Diesel is crap and should be left for tractors and HGVs. A hot hatch is 20times more fun than a diesel 3series.

[98elise]

Pica-Pica said:

DanCousins said:

Danxr46 said:

Torque matters more than hp

No it doesn't.

Torque can be manipulated by gearing. If you want to know how fast a car is going to go from A to B, it's all about the horsies. If your car makes more power, it can do more work, more quickly and will therefore be faster.

Power can be manipulated by gearing, actually. That is, you manipulate the torque to be delivered at higher revs, thus increasing the power.
Power = (Torque x RPM)/Constant. Torque = work capable of being done, Power = rate of doing that work.

Surely you can't manipulate power with gearing? You're manipulating the torque and rpm for a given power. If you are talking about dropping a gear, then your engine has been allowed to develop more power for the given road speed, by being higher up it's torque power curve.

Also torque isn't work. Energy is work, and that's power and time.torque is a twisting force.

[Danxr46]

Ahbefive said:

Whichever is quicker by a fraction of a second is pretty irrelevant, Diesel is crap and should be left for tractors and HGVs. A hot hatch is 20times more fun than a diesel 3series.

I agree diesel isn’t as fun as petrol however needs must for travelling so so be it

[TwinExit]

Danxr46 said:

The times they achieved for the type r in the autoexpress test were 6.0 secs flat to 60mph which is marginally slower, fact!

Marginally slower in a 0-60 because this Civic is the less powerful FK2 model (not the current FK8 CTR) and is FRONT wheel drive, fact!

Your RWD car OTOH was tested using your own eyes and a stop watch against the indicated speed on your dashboard.

The Focus RS is 1-1.5 seconds quicker to 60 mph, but for some reason this doesn't count in your world due to it being 4WD.

Danxr46 said:

In gear the 30-50mph time is around the same but certainly not faster but also with regards to gears you don’t make sense yourself as yes some magazines use rolling times which also gives the cars an obvious advantage so to eradicate the advantage or even it out I said that any possible gear changes can balance that out. Also in the link below it states the times and the gears so if you want to carry on speaking about changing from 1st to second at 30 then you can however that isn’t information applicable to what I was stating which is shown in the magazine test.

With the FK2 you refer to, the 30-50 mph test is only in 3rd gear, in 2nd it will be quicker than 2.4 seconds, very likely to be quicker than your 330D despite the inferior torque....

50-70 mph was only done in 5th and 6th gear, it will be far quicker in 3rd or even in 4th gear.

Remember I am using your own evidence here!

Danxr46 said:

Either way whether it a fraction here or there, in th ‘real’ world a type r would not ‘get away’ or ‘leave for dead’ or ‘smoke’ the diesel. Especially as they both have roughly the same HP bit one with far less torque.

Using your own evidence, other than a 0-60 test we can clearly see the older CTR was not tested with the optimal gear for the speeds, the tests were to measure torque elasticity in taller gears. You are comparing these stats to your car which were tested with kick down or in the optimal selected gear.

Go on youtube and check out the dozens upon dozens of acceleration tests on there to back up this up.

What other Type R will you resort to next? 20-40 mph in a 20 year old 1.6i B16 CTR using 5th gear?? Keep shifting the goal posts until a re-mapped 330D is declared teh faster than a tYPE r because more TQ?!!!

Utter waste of time.

Edited by TwinExit on Monday 5th March 17:31

Edited by TwinExit on Monday 5th March 17:32

[PositronicRay]

When I was a lad and into bikes I couldn't understand this

Bore size doesn't cost significantly more

Honda C50/C90
Yamaha RD 250/350

All exactly the same, you could even swap barrels and piston and nobody would know.