Discussion
Have been fascinated by a few reader's cars threads lately (particularly the ozzy lad with multiple skylines at age 19!) and it got me thinking...
What is everyone's approach to buying/running/owning cars? I'm talking exclusively about used cars. Things along the lines of; when do you stop getting them serviced and start doing it yourself? When do you look to replace? preventative maintenance or if it ain't broke don't fix it? All the aspects of the second hand market both buyers and sellers have to think about.
Not looking for any advice or what's right vs wrong, just fascinated by the way people think about the topic. Enlighten me
What is everyone's approach to buying/running/owning cars? I'm talking exclusively about used cars. Things along the lines of; when do you stop getting them serviced and start doing it yourself? When do you look to replace? preventative maintenance or if it ain't broke don't fix it? All the aspects of the second hand market both buyers and sellers have to think about.
Not looking for any advice or what's right vs wrong, just fascinated by the way people think about the topic. Enlighten me
Personally I'll do minor maintenance myself, such as oil changing, filter changes, aux belts and brake pads. It really costs very little if you do it yourself. If a big bill comes along (normally MOT), I think, what is the value of this car? Is the repair more than the cars value? If the repair exceeds the value it's time to go shopping for a new car, if it's equal or less then I'll do it, better the devil you know kind of policy.
I might make an exception if the car is 'special' or rare.
I might make an exception if the car is 'special' or rare.
We bought our two daily drivers for very little money (£1000 each) and spent some money making sure they're reliable.
I do most things myself like oil changes, brakes, tie rod ends, wheel bearings and other simple jobs providing I have the time. I used to do absolutely everything myself, but do get a specialist to do some bits now.
Out attitude is that there's nothing particularly expensive that can go wrong with these cars, so no matter what they need, we'll pay it.
My girlfriend's car had it's sills replaced and the rear axle rebuilt, both of which cost 70% of the car's value (each) but we don't care, as we'd have to spend a lot more than that to get a car that didn't need work and I'm of the opinion that better the devil you know.
If the transmission failed tomorrow, we'd pay the money and get it rebuilt.
Ultimately though they haven't really cost much to keep on the road. There's always something that needs doing, but they just keep on doing their thing regardless day in day out.
I do most things myself like oil changes, brakes, tie rod ends, wheel bearings and other simple jobs providing I have the time. I used to do absolutely everything myself, but do get a specialist to do some bits now.
Out attitude is that there's nothing particularly expensive that can go wrong with these cars, so no matter what they need, we'll pay it.
My girlfriend's car had it's sills replaced and the rear axle rebuilt, both of which cost 70% of the car's value (each) but we don't care, as we'd have to spend a lot more than that to get a car that didn't need work and I'm of the opinion that better the devil you know.
If the transmission failed tomorrow, we'd pay the money and get it rebuilt.
Ultimately though they haven't really cost much to keep on the road. There's always something that needs doing, but they just keep on doing their thing regardless day in day out.
I buy £1k cars. I run them until they die. If they fail an MOT and the cost to fix is under £500, I'll get it sorted. I do not get my cars serviced.
Otherwise I might as well buy a £5k car and pay the same or less to get it sorted then sell it after a couple of years for £4k, having still spent £1k.
Otherwise I might as well buy a £5k car and pay the same or less to get it sorted then sell it after a couple of years for £4k, having still spent £1k.
I'm only able to do oil changes and swap the winters/summers, so that's all I do.
It still saves me a reasonable amount as Mannol 5w/30 oil and filters are cheap. Garages charge a lot, unless you get a special offer from National or similar.
As I drive higher-mileage diesels, and they often get shortish journeys in winter, I change the oil/filter every 6months/12,000km on them. Doing this was recommended to me years ago and it has (touch wood) kept every high-miler I've owned running sweetly.
I usually buy part-worn tyres or wheelsets on Ebay.de, this saves hundreds of euros too. My winters were €200 for 7mm tyres on nice 17" rims, my summers were €80 for a set of four nearly-new Goodyear EfficientGrip.
I generally look to buy at 6 years old / 160,000km and keep until 10 years old, although my current work hack (E90 320d) has just turned 10 and is still running sweetly, so it'll probably stick around a bit.
It still saves me a reasonable amount as Mannol 5w/30 oil and filters are cheap. Garages charge a lot, unless you get a special offer from National or similar.
As I drive higher-mileage diesels, and they often get shortish journeys in winter, I change the oil/filter every 6months/12,000km on them. Doing this was recommended to me years ago and it has (touch wood) kept every high-miler I've owned running sweetly.
I usually buy part-worn tyres or wheelsets on Ebay.de, this saves hundreds of euros too. My winters were €200 for 7mm tyres on nice 17" rims, my summers were €80 for a set of four nearly-new Goodyear EfficientGrip.
I generally look to buy at 6 years old / 160,000km and keep until 10 years old, although my current work hack (E90 320d) has just turned 10 and is still running sweetly, so it'll probably stick around a bit.
Valgar said:
Personally I'll do minor maintenance myself, such as oil changing, filter changes, aux belts and brake pads. It really costs very little if you do it yourself. If a big bill comes along (normally MOT), I think, what is the value of this car? Is the repair more than the cars value? If the repair exceeds the value it's time to go shopping for a new car, if it's equal or less then I'll do it, better the devil you know kind of policy.
I might make an exception if the car is 'special' or rare.
Same here, important thing is to buy the right car in the first place as there is a lot of rubbish out there. I find the online MOT history tool is brilliant now as it gives you a good idea of how the car has been maintained and problems that may potentially crop up in future. It allows you to find out which cars have failed every year and then scraped a pass with a dozen advisories.I might make an exception if the car is 'special' or rare.
My current shed had recently had a service and cambelt and had passed the last 6 MOTs with only one advisory for tyres. I have just spent £15 on 5 litres of Manoil 5w/40 and another £15 on an oil/air and pollen filter which will be fitted when the weather is better.
ideally it needs a set of tyres, but I am going to wait until I service it and give it a good going over to see if it is worth spending the money (99% certain it is)
Once you have owned a shed for a while and gained some confidence in it you almost get a sixth sense about when things are not quite right and what the potential problem is.
Joey Deacon said:
Same here, important thing is to buy the right car in the first place as there is a lot of rubbish out there.
Once you have owned a shed for a while and gained some confidence in it you almost get a sixth sense about when things are not quite right and what the potential problem is.
Re the first point definitely and in addition for a run around I rule out anything with know issues that I can't tackle personally or would be a real pain/expensive. Old cars are great for this as their flaws are generally well documented by the time you are buying them.Once you have owned a shed for a while and gained some confidence in it you almost get a sixth sense about when things are not quite right and what the potential problem is.
I agree on the 2nd point too, lot's of drivers have zero mechanical sympathy or awareness, and to be fair I was like that when I was young, but the driver can make a big difference to the cars longevity.
All my fleet are upwards of 150,000 miles plus
I do all the work on my cars myself including gearbox repairs (started last weekend finishing this weekend snow depending)
My whole fleet could be classed as bangernomics
2003 Golf GTI - PD150
2003 Golf GT - PD130
2003 Golf GTI - 1.8t
2003 Audi A4 Quattro - PD130
Saab 9-5 Aero Hot 230 bhp
my cars cost be very little to run and I aim to do preventative maintenance to keep them all reliable
I do all the work on my cars myself including gearbox repairs (started last weekend finishing this weekend snow depending)
My whole fleet could be classed as bangernomics
2003 Golf GTI - PD150
2003 Golf GT - PD130
2003 Golf GTI - 1.8t
2003 Audi A4 Quattro - PD130
Saab 9-5 Aero Hot 230 bhp
my cars cost be very little to run and I aim to do preventative maintenance to keep them all reliable
After a heady cocktail of a divorce combined with being made redundant I decided on a journey into the world of bangernomics, more as a necessity.
My steed : A Toyota Corolla 2 litre diesel - N Reg, which i saw with a sticker in the the windscreen for £200. Checked it over and paid the asking price as it turned out, it was serviced and maintained on the button with paperwork's of about 20 years of mechanics receipts and it was only 86k miles.
I've since done over 22k miles in it - use it for commuting / dog ferrying / kids pickups and drop offs plus regular trips up to scotland and back. There are no electronics , no dpf and notthing really to go wrong other than what a good old school mechanic can do.
Verdict; i quite enjoy the thrill of owning and running the Corolla. It's cost me 2 calipers, 3 tyres and 2 services plus MOT's and brings back loads of good memories when my Dad used to run old cars in the late 70's and 80's. Oh, and 56 mpg.
These things, i have since read are pretty indestructable, and are the main forms of transport in Afghanistan - as they are so hard wearing and easy and cheap to fix.
I'll let you know how i get on!
My steed : A Toyota Corolla 2 litre diesel - N Reg, which i saw with a sticker in the the windscreen for £200. Checked it over and paid the asking price as it turned out, it was serviced and maintained on the button with paperwork's of about 20 years of mechanics receipts and it was only 86k miles.
I've since done over 22k miles in it - use it for commuting / dog ferrying / kids pickups and drop offs plus regular trips up to scotland and back. There are no electronics , no dpf and notthing really to go wrong other than what a good old school mechanic can do.
Verdict; i quite enjoy the thrill of owning and running the Corolla. It's cost me 2 calipers, 3 tyres and 2 services plus MOT's and brings back loads of good memories when my Dad used to run old cars in the late 70's and 80's. Oh, and 56 mpg.
These things, i have since read are pretty indestructable, and are the main forms of transport in Afghanistan - as they are so hard wearing and easy and cheap to fix.
I'll let you know how i get on!
Applefox said:
After a heady cocktail of a divorce combined with being made redundant I decided on a journey into the world of bangernomics, more as a necessity.
My steed : A Toyota Corolla 2 litre diesel - N Reg, which i saw with a sticker in the the windscreen for £200. Checked it over and paid the asking price as it turned out, it was serviced and maintained on the button with paperwork's of about 20 years of mechanics receipts and it was only 86k miles.
I've since done over 22k miles in it - use it for commuting / dog ferrying / kids pickups and drop offs plus regular trips up to scotland and back. There are no electronics , no dpf and notthing really to go wrong other than what a good old school mechanic can do.
Verdict; i quite enjoy the thrill of owning and running the Corolla. It's cost me 2 calipers, 3 tyres and 2 services plus MOT's and brings back loads of good memories when my Dad used to run old cars in the late 70's and 80's. Oh, and 56 mpg.
These things, i have since read are pretty indestructable, and are the main forms of transport in Afghanistan - as they are so hard wearing and easy and cheap to fix.
I'll let you know how i get on!
My steed : A Toyota Corolla 2 litre diesel - N Reg, which i saw with a sticker in the the windscreen for £200. Checked it over and paid the asking price as it turned out, it was serviced and maintained on the button with paperwork's of about 20 years of mechanics receipts and it was only 86k miles.
I've since done over 22k miles in it - use it for commuting / dog ferrying / kids pickups and drop offs plus regular trips up to scotland and back. There are no electronics , no dpf and notthing really to go wrong other than what a good old school mechanic can do.
Verdict; i quite enjoy the thrill of owning and running the Corolla. It's cost me 2 calipers, 3 tyres and 2 services plus MOT's and brings back loads of good memories when my Dad used to run old cars in the late 70's and 80's. Oh, and 56 mpg.
These things, i have since read are pretty indestructable, and are the main forms of transport in Afghanistan - as they are so hard wearing and easy and cheap to fix.
I'll let you know how i get on!
and welcome to PH!Superchickenn said:
All my fleet are upwards of 150,000 miles plus
I do all the work on my cars myself including gearbox repairs (started last weekend finishing this weekend snow depending)
My whole fleet could be classed as bangernomics
2003 Golf GTI - PD150
2003 Golf GT - PD130
2003 Golf GTI - 1.8t
2003 Audi A4 Quattro - PD130
Saab 9-5 Aero Hot 230 bhp
my cars cost be very little to run and I aim to do preventative maintenance to keep them all reliable
You really like 2003 Golfs, don't you? I do all the work on my cars myself including gearbox repairs (started last weekend finishing this weekend snow depending)
My whole fleet could be classed as bangernomics
2003 Golf GTI - PD150
2003 Golf GT - PD130
2003 Golf GTI - 1.8t
2003 Audi A4 Quattro - PD130
Saab 9-5 Aero Hot 230 bhp
my cars cost be very little to run and I aim to do preventative maintenance to keep them all reliable
Valgar said:
Is the repair more than the cars value? If the repair exceeds the value it's time to go shopping for a new car, if it's equal or less then I'll do it, better the devil you know kind of policy.
.
Rather than use the car's value, I think it makes more sense to price up the repair against the cost of binning the car and buying another that stands a good chance of being significantly better..
There are some gems out there for 3 figures, but there's a lot of truly awful crap as well. It's an odds game.
Limpet said:
Valgar said:
Is the repair more than the cars value? If the repair exceeds the value it's time to go shopping for a new car, if it's equal or less then I'll do it, better the devil you know kind of policy.
.
Rather than use the car's value, I think it makes more sense to price up the repair against the cost of binning the car and buying another that stands a good chance of being significantly better..
There are some gems out there for 3 figures, but there's a lot of truly awful crap as well. It's an odds game.
Clockwork Toyota's from the late 80's & 90's are the best engineered vehicles on the planet period. Basic servicing, a bit of rust prevention & age related TLC is all they seem to need.
Mine is 27 years old, has never failed an MOT! & probably the cheapest thing to run in our fleet despite mid 20's mpg's. This one has had in the last two years, a front section of exhaust, some leaky hub seals fixed & one rattly droplinks done, £200 tops in repairs, & some basic but oily servicing they do take lots & lots of oil every couple of years. Knobbly tyres last 50k miles plus or just get old first. Though I don't do many miles in it, about 2-3k a year tops, It's comfy, AC, heated seats, cruise, it just all always works, does everything from getting through our regular floods (bonnet level), 3t boat towing, car trailer towing, horsey event picnics, horsebox mud rescues, essential animal duties on snowdays, rescuing mates out of ditches & the odd fun off road adventure thrown in
Otherwise polished & kept in the garage sorn'd,
or taxed till its needed.
Value is static or going up. Last one I owned for 7 years and put 100k of my miles on it, when I came to sell it I was quids in inc service & repair costs!
Mine is 27 years old, has never failed an MOT! & probably the cheapest thing to run in our fleet despite mid 20's mpg's. This one has had in the last two years, a front section of exhaust, some leaky hub seals fixed & one rattly droplinks done, £200 tops in repairs, & some basic but oily servicing they do take lots & lots of oil every couple of years. Knobbly tyres last 50k miles plus or just get old first. Though I don't do many miles in it, about 2-3k a year tops, It's comfy, AC, heated seats, cruise, it just all always works, does everything from getting through our regular floods (bonnet level), 3t boat towing, car trailer towing, horsey event picnics, horsebox mud rescues, essential animal duties on snowdays, rescuing mates out of ditches
& the odd fun off road adventure thrown in Otherwise polished & kept in the garage sorn'd,
or taxed till its needed.Value is static or going up. Last one I owned for 7 years and put 100k of my miles on it, when I came to sell it I was quids in inc service & repair costs!
Edited by cptsideways on Monday 19th March 18:43
The polar opposite to the cruiser above is our historical VAG fleet currently the last one EVER a low mileage PD Passat is serving its final days. Airbag lights, engine management lights, doorlocks that break, doorlocks that don't open despite every combination of VAGCOM tries. Doorlocks that to repair takes a day & involves smashing the interior to get the damn door open, endless suspension parts, CV joints, sensor failures, stupid things that don't work. It drives me insane.
No more VW's or anything related to the VAG brand!
No more VW's or anything related to the VAG brand!
I run a fleet of a Saab 9-5 Aero, Suzuki Ignis Sport and Toyota Celica GT-Four. All work including M.O.T i do myself. Only things I really outsource are tyres and paint.
I think my neighbours might think I am strange but I must be one of the very few that actually own their cars down my street! I have no intent of keeping up with Joneses and all the money I save gets put back into track days.
I think my neighbours might think I am strange but I must be one of the very few that actually own their cars down my street! I have no intent of keeping up with Joneses and all the money I save gets put back into track days.
I'm terrible at Bangernomics. It really really annoys me if the car is not running correctly. I don't like bangs from the suspension, or electrical bits not working, or seats torn, or a substandard car in the bodywork or knocked about interior. It might be cheap, but I still need to sit in it for many hours, so it has to be right.
With this in mind, I'll spend generally about £1-2000 on a car, and then another £6 or 700 making it right for me.
I purchased a Saab 9-3 for £1300 (with only 68k miles on it), and then promptly put a new set of tyres, brakes, suspension, wheel bearings, and rear calipers on it. I suppose these parts came to about £1000 all in,but the car is now superb. It's in good nick, runs very well,and has no bangs or squeaks on it. For a total of £2300. I've had it 2 years so far, and have no need or desire to get rid. When I do,it will be completely knackered in about 10 years time. Depreciation, repairs and servicing will cost me about £500 a year I suppose.
Same with the V50 - new suspension, tyres, etc etc, and again it's a very nice car for about £2500.
It took me a long time to find both cars - I looked and looked and looked some more, and traveled good distances to buy. Each was about 300 miles, and both from the East Midlands. Touch wood, both have been superbly reliable, only needing an emergency new battery on the Saab.
I'm very lucky from that perspective though, I have a 2 post lift, and a heated, fully equipped workshop 100 yards from my front door. I'm also an auto electrician, who started on the spanners, so very little frightens me - Although the E39 bodywork did after a side on smash.
So that's my take on it - spend a little more on the initial car (very little depreciates below £500, so look at a bigger budget than that), and then maintain it,and keep it a long time. That's the way I think you get good value from them.
With this in mind, I'll spend generally about £1-2000 on a car, and then another £6 or 700 making it right for me.
I purchased a Saab 9-3 for £1300 (with only 68k miles on it), and then promptly put a new set of tyres, brakes, suspension, wheel bearings, and rear calipers on it. I suppose these parts came to about £1000 all in,but the car is now superb. It's in good nick, runs very well,and has no bangs or squeaks on it. For a total of £2300. I've had it 2 years so far, and have no need or desire to get rid. When I do,it will be completely knackered in about 10 years time. Depreciation, repairs and servicing will cost me about £500 a year I suppose.
Same with the V50 - new suspension, tyres, etc etc, and again it's a very nice car for about £2500.
It took me a long time to find both cars - I looked and looked and looked some more, and traveled good distances to buy. Each was about 300 miles, and both from the East Midlands. Touch wood, both have been superbly reliable, only needing an emergency new battery on the Saab.
I'm very lucky from that perspective though, I have a 2 post lift, and a heated, fully equipped workshop 100 yards from my front door. I'm also an auto electrician, who started on the spanners, so very little frightens me - Although the E39 bodywork did after a side on smash.
So that's my take on it - spend a little more on the initial car (very little depreciates below £500, so look at a bigger budget than that), and then maintain it,and keep it a long time. That's the way I think you get good value from them.
Jimmy Recard said:
Superchickenn said:
All my fleet are upwards of 150,000 miles plus
I do all the work on my cars myself including gearbox repairs (started last weekend finishing this weekend snow depending)
My whole fleet could be classed as bangernomics
2003 Golf GTI - PD150
2003 Golf GT - PD130
2003 Golf GTI - 1.8t
2003 Audi A4 Quattro - PD130
Saab 9-5 Aero Hot 230 bhp
my cars cost be very little to run and I aim to do preventative maintenance to keep them all reliable
You really like 2003 Golfs, don't you? I do all the work on my cars myself including gearbox repairs (started last weekend finishing this weekend snow depending)
My whole fleet could be classed as bangernomics
2003 Golf GTI - PD150
2003 Golf GT - PD130
2003 Golf GTI - 1.8t
2003 Audi A4 Quattro - PD130
Saab 9-5 Aero Hot 230 bhp
my cars cost be very little to run and I aim to do preventative maintenance to keep them all reliable
I get my sheds serviced annually: oil and filters is £50 in the Hi-Q at the end of my road and I only have good things to say about them. I haven't priced the oil for my cars but I can't believe the money saved would be worth the hassle. Big bills: pragmatic response based on how much else is going to need spending in the future. Anything which isn't working but I can so without, I just put up with. (Currently air con and a knocking from the suspension, indy garage can't see anything dangerous)
Agree. I do similar. Picked up my last car for £2.5k in pretty decent condition for 94K miles. Just maintaining it as best as possible with a view to getting at least 5 years plus out of it. Currently had it 3 years.
Do all servicing/repairs myself. Deliberately bought a 2001 4 cylinder petrol for that reason. To keep the work simple.
Do all servicing/repairs myself. Deliberately bought a 2001 4 cylinder petrol for that reason. To keep the work simple.
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