RE: Jaguar's 400hp electric SUV unveiled
Discussion
Apparently the price does not include the ~£5k grant so it's cheaper that it is listed at.
I think it looks superb. They have ticked a lot of boxes here and for a first attempt - hell for any attempt - this is an excellent EV. I wonder how it performs on a track? They've had them at tracks with camo on a few times so obviously it's engineered for it... that is somewhere it could kill the modelX.
I think it looks superb. They have ticked a lot of boxes here and for a first attempt - hell for any attempt - this is an excellent EV. I wonder how it performs on a track? They've had them at tracks with camo on a few times so obviously it's engineered for it... that is somewhere it could kill the modelX.
tankplanker said:
I'd be highly surprised if a car advertised with a 300 mile range could actually achieve 200 miles. It'd either have to be amazingly cold or you'd have to be driving the car like you stole it.
10℉, headwind, snow on the road, heavyweight mother-in-law riding shotgun...Condi said:
The future ideally lies in cars connected to chargers when not in use, as this will allow them to draw from the grid when power is cheap, and discharge back to the grid when power is expensive. If you come back from work at 6pm, with 50% battery left, you can afford to sell 25% of that to the grid when power is expensive, say between 7pm and 9pm, then recharge at 1am when power is cheap, giving you 100% to start the day with.
Absolutely. I think there is an issue with not all properties being able to sell power back. A chap did a television program about trying to do this for his village and he was explaining to me at Christmas that they weren’t able to do so. But, there is total logic in plugging your car in to the house at the conventional time that most humans get home, powering your house during this peak cost period using your car and then refilling your car at the cheapest time much later on.
Everyone becomes a little Enron, arbitraging domestic electricity costs.
But it will also give rise to Yorkshireman just popping round for a cup of tea and asking if you mind plugging their EV in for a bit.
hyphen said:
Are these expected to be bought rather than leased? If not, won't it just be mainly base spec in demand for lowest monthly amount.
Have you seen the wheels (castors) on the base spec. You've got to spend £1600 minimum for it to not look silly. Want the same wheels with a diamond turned finish, that'll be £2400. 22" is a £4k option.I don`t think anyone has a clue about how much copper cabling will be required to transit the power to a sufficient network of recharging points to make these things anywhere near viable.
At present, when your fuel gauge is low, you pop into a service station and fill up...takes 5 minutes. The current status with EV`s is what 45 mins to 80% charge. Now I accept you can get round this by more careful planning etc, but I do not think this is the future...it is currently a backward step. All this is doing is moving the point of emissions from the vehicle to the power station. Domestic houses could of course have solar cells fitted to make it more viable, but some massive leaps in technology are still required.
Oh yes and no-one wants to talk about the emissions created producing the batteries and shipping the raw materials. All the politicians sprout how wonderful it is because the vehicle is electric and zero emissions...and the uneducated lap it up. Also in the background, the taxation system will change form fuel duty to pay per mile. No problem with creating cleaner vehicles by the way...just this is not the solution.
At present, when your fuel gauge is low, you pop into a service station and fill up...takes 5 minutes. The current status with EV`s is what 45 mins to 80% charge. Now I accept you can get round this by more careful planning etc, but I do not think this is the future...it is currently a backward step. All this is doing is moving the point of emissions from the vehicle to the power station. Domestic houses could of course have solar cells fitted to make it more viable, but some massive leaps in technology are still required.
Oh yes and no-one wants to talk about the emissions created producing the batteries and shipping the raw materials. All the politicians sprout how wonderful it is because the vehicle is electric and zero emissions...and the uneducated lap it up. Also in the background, the taxation system will change form fuel duty to pay per mile. No problem with creating cleaner vehicles by the way...just this is not the solution.
B17NNS said:
hyphen said:
Are these expected to be bought rather than leased? If not, won't it just be mainly base spec in demand for lowest monthly amount.
Have you seen the wheels (castors) on the base spec. You've got to spend £1600 minimum for it to not look silly. Want the same wheels with a diamond turned finish, that'll be £2400. 22" is a £4k option.I just specced one up to the sort of level I'd probably want and ended up just under £71k. That's without leather seats, which would add another nearly £5k - nice but not worth that to me.
kambites said:
Hmm, I actually rather like the default 18 inch wheel option. 20 inch works but the designs are all horrible. 22 inch wheels look stupid.
I jsut specced one up to the sort of level I'd probably go for and ended up just under £71k. That's without leather seats, which would add another nearly £5k.
Same here. Had a play with the configurator and it's well over £70k for acceptable spec for a car of this calibre. Very nice it is, though. I jsut specced one up to the sort of level I'd probably go for and ended up just under £71k. That's without leather seats, which would add another nearly £5k.
There’s a certain religiosity about some EV proponents it seems to me.
In the sense that the merest doubts as to it all being great in the short term are treated as some sort of challenge to the whole idea.
I have no doubt it’s the future and I’ll have one when it suits me. (I want to fulfil my childhood fantasy of whiring along like Ed Straker).
But practical issues are there and will be for some time.
So relax - it’s coming. Just don’t expect everyone to clap along just yet.
In the sense that the merest doubts as to it all being great in the short term are treated as some sort of challenge to the whole idea.
I have no doubt it’s the future and I’ll have one when it suits me. (I want to fulfil my childhood fantasy of whiring along like Ed Straker).
But practical issues are there and will be for some time.
So relax - it’s coming. Just don’t expect everyone to clap along just yet.
CTE said:
I don`t think anyone has a clue about how much copper cabling will be required to transit the power to a sufficient network of recharging points to make these things anywhere near viable.
At present, when your fuel gauge is low, you pop into a service station and fill up...takes 5 minutes. The current status with EV`s is what 45 mins to 80% charge. Now I accept you can get round this by more careful planning etc, but I do not think this is the future...it is currently a backward step. All this is doing is moving the point of emissions from the vehicle to the power station. Domestic houses could of course have solar cells fitted to make it more viable, but some massive leaps in technology are still required.
Oh yes and no-one wants to talk about the emissions created producing the batteries and shipping the raw materials. All the politicians sprout how wonderful it is because the vehicle is electric and zero emissions...and the uneducated lap it up. Also in the background, the taxation system will change form fuel duty to pay per mile. No problem with creating cleaner vehicles by the way...just this is not the solution.
At present your house doesn't have a petrol pump, but it does have a plug. You start each journey in your petrol or diesel with the same amount of fuel you had at the end of the last journey in an EV it is always more. You will almost never arrive home empty with 2-300 miles of range and so your car will almost always be fully charged when you leave. Few people do journeys over 200 miles all the time, yes there are exceptions, but those people are the outliers. At present, when your fuel gauge is low, you pop into a service station and fill up...takes 5 minutes. The current status with EV`s is what 45 mins to 80% charge. Now I accept you can get round this by more careful planning etc, but I do not think this is the future...it is currently a backward step. All this is doing is moving the point of emissions from the vehicle to the power station. Domestic houses could of course have solar cells fitted to make it more viable, but some massive leaps in technology are still required.
Oh yes and no-one wants to talk about the emissions created producing the batteries and shipping the raw materials. All the politicians sprout how wonderful it is because the vehicle is electric and zero emissions...and the uneducated lap it up. Also in the background, the taxation system will change form fuel duty to pay per mile. No problem with creating cleaner vehicles by the way...just this is not the solution.
I commute 150 miles round trip per day and I will get buying an EV soon as it will save me a fortune in fuel an maintenance while providing a relaxing quiet environment to sit in.
The power station as you put it is getting cleaner, grid emissions in the UK are going down each year and wind, solar etc. are taking increasingly large chunks. Currently we turn wind turbines off at night on a regular basis due to a lack of demand, EVs create that demand and you can time them to take advantage of cheaper rates that will come with smart meters.
Making batteries does use more energy than building a normal car, but zero emissions at point of use and electricity that gets cleaner every year means that is massively outweighed by usage emissions.
B17NNS said:
hyphen said:
Are these expected to be bought rather than leased? If not, won't it just be mainly base spec in demand for lowest monthly amount.
Have you seen the wheels (castors) on the base spec. You've got to spend £1600 minimum for it to not look silly. Want the same wheels with a diamond turned finish, that'll be £2400. 22" is a £4k option.If this doesn't sell, Im sure the price will be adjusted.
kambites said:
Hmm, I actually rather like the default 18 inch wheel option. 20 inch works but the designs are all horrible. 22 inch wheels look stupid.
I jsut specced one up to the sort of level I'd probably go for and ended up just under £71k. That's without leather seats, which would add another nearly £5k.
Saw an F-Pace on 22's the other day, they look fI jsut specced one up to the sort of level I'd probably go for and ended up just under £71k. That's without leather seats, which would add another nearly £5k.
king ridiculous.£71k car with no leather seats is a bit silly.
Evoquative said:
CTE said:
I don`t think anyone has a clue about how much copper cabling will be required to transit the power to a sufficient network of recharging points to make these things anywhere near viable.
At present, when your fuel gauge is low, you pop into a service station and fill up...takes 5 minutes. The current status with EV`s is what 45 mins to 80% charge. Now I accept you can get round this by more careful planning etc, but I do not think this is the future...it is currently a backward step. All this is doing is moving the point of emissions from the vehicle to the power station. Domestic houses could of course have solar cells fitted to make it more viable, but some massive leaps in technology are still required.
Oh yes and no-one wants to talk about the emissions created producing the batteries and shipping the raw materials. All the politicians sprout how wonderful it is because the vehicle is electric and zero emissions...and the uneducated lap it up. Also in the background, the taxation system will change form fuel duty to pay per mile. No problem with creating cleaner vehicles by the way...just this is not the solution.
At present your house doesn't have a petrol pump, but it does have a plug. You start each journey in your petrol or diesel with the same amount of fuel you had at the end of the last journey in an EV it is always more. You will almost never arrive home empty with 2-300 miles of range and so your car will almost always be fully charged when you leave. Few people do journeys over 200 miles all the time, yes there are exceptions, but those people are the outliers. At present, when your fuel gauge is low, you pop into a service station and fill up...takes 5 minutes. The current status with EV`s is what 45 mins to 80% charge. Now I accept you can get round this by more careful planning etc, but I do not think this is the future...it is currently a backward step. All this is doing is moving the point of emissions from the vehicle to the power station. Domestic houses could of course have solar cells fitted to make it more viable, but some massive leaps in technology are still required.
Oh yes and no-one wants to talk about the emissions created producing the batteries and shipping the raw materials. All the politicians sprout how wonderful it is because the vehicle is electric and zero emissions...and the uneducated lap it up. Also in the background, the taxation system will change form fuel duty to pay per mile. No problem with creating cleaner vehicles by the way...just this is not the solution.
I commute 150 miles round trip per day and I will get buying an EV soon as it will save me a fortune in fuel an maintenance while providing a relaxing quiet environment to sit in.
The power station as you put it is getting cleaner, grid emissions in the UK are going down each year and wind, solar etc. are taking increasingly large chunks. Currently we turn wind turbines off at night on a regular basis due to a lack of demand, EVs create that demand and you can time them to take advantage of cheaper rates that will come with smart meters.
Making batteries does use more energy than building a normal car, but zero emissions at point of use and electricity that gets cleaner every year means that is massively outweighed by usage emissions.
http://gridwatch.co.uk/
CTE said:
I don`t think anyone has a clue about how much copper cabling will be required to transit the power to a sufficient network of recharging points to make these things anywhere near viable.
At present, when your fuel gauge is low, you pop into a service station and fill up...takes 5 minutes. The current status with EV`s is what 45 mins to 80% charge. Now I accept you can get round this by more careful planning etc, but I do not think this is the future...it is currently a backward step. All this is doing is moving the point of emissions from the vehicle to the power station. Domestic houses could of course have solar cells fitted to make it more viable, but some massive leaps in technology are still required.
Oh yes and no-one wants to talk about the emissions created producing the batteries and shipping the raw materials. All the politicians sprout how wonderful it is because the vehicle is electric and zero emissions...and the uneducated lap it up. Also in the background, the taxation system will change form fuel duty to pay per mile. No problem with creating cleaner vehicles by the way...just this is not the solution.
My i3 is a 'bacwards step' sometimes, for 5% of longer journeys it just isnt good at. The rest of the time it is better not having to visit petrol stations any more. 'Fueling' at home is far more convenient.At present, when your fuel gauge is low, you pop into a service station and fill up...takes 5 minutes. The current status with EV`s is what 45 mins to 80% charge. Now I accept you can get round this by more careful planning etc, but I do not think this is the future...it is currently a backward step. All this is doing is moving the point of emissions from the vehicle to the power station. Domestic houses could of course have solar cells fitted to make it more viable, but some massive leaps in technology are still required.
Oh yes and no-one wants to talk about the emissions created producing the batteries and shipping the raw materials. All the politicians sprout how wonderful it is because the vehicle is electric and zero emissions...and the uneducated lap it up. Also in the background, the taxation system will change form fuel duty to pay per mile. No problem with creating cleaner vehicles by the way...just this is not the solution.
You are correct that EV's are bad for the environment. But they are better than ICE. The environmental argument is as simple as that.
If I was that bothered about zero emissions I could choose a green tariff or put solar panels on my roof, but being 'green' is not really why I got it.
I am sure you are right about tax. It is currently artificially low to insensitive change. But the cost of EV's will reduce as the tech matures, as happens with all products.
As to whether it is the solution, the car manufacturers clearly think it is. I will take their actions over your opinions.
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