RE: Toyota GT86 v Peugeot Sport 208 GTI
Discussion
sr.guiri said:
Hats off to Toyota for making a relatively cheap, fun, RW drive, lightweight car. Nobody does that anymore
+1Am shocked at the amount of negativity the GT86 is subjected to on this forum. It's not just a "It's not the car for me" it's a genuine out and out wish for the car to be an out and out sales failure and cease to exist. Where does such an intense dislike come from? It should be universally praised on concept alone.
I will never own one but then again I will never own a coupe over a convertible but other than that What's to hate? A bit flat at mid range and a lack of Audiesque quality to the interior? Seriously? The GT86's flaws pale into insignificance once balanced against it's brilliance.
Personally I find an accessible, sorted RWD considerably superior to a FWD.
Depends what you look for in a drive of course but having the ability to slide under power on road is a huge benefit.
Pity the GT86 is tiny in the rear or I would have bought one. So instead I kept my E36 and chucked many thousands at it instead.
Depends what you look for in a drive of course but having the ability to slide under power on road is a huge benefit.
Pity the GT86 is tiny in the rear or I would have bought one. So instead I kept my E36 and chucked many thousands at it instead.
SidewaysSi said:
Depends what you look for in a drive of course but having the ability to slide under power on road is a huge benefit.
.
How is it a huge benefit? Fun yes but don't really see it as a benefit on road? Plus the first police car or dash cam w.
ker that sees it will consider you a menace to society :0).Debated this long and hard .... i.e. trading our Ohlins equipped 275 Trophy in for a new shape but used 86.
FWD hatch Vs RWD sports car ...
Love the concept of the 86, RWD, NA, LSD, packaging etc and the lack of outright pace isn't an issue for me (I'd prob fix the torque dip) BUT after a long test drive we got back in the Trophy and it still felt really special .... even though it is forced induction and FWD and started life as a mundane hatchback.
Kinda feels like the 86 has all the right ingredients but hasn't been quite as honed as the RS ?
I prefer RWD without doubt but point the two down a B road back to back and for me it without any shadow of a doubt proves that when done well FWD can be just as much if not more fun than RWD ...
FWD hatch Vs RWD sports car ...
Love the concept of the 86, RWD, NA, LSD, packaging etc and the lack of outright pace isn't an issue for me (I'd prob fix the torque dip) BUT after a long test drive we got back in the Trophy and it still felt really special .... even though it is forced induction and FWD and started life as a mundane hatchback.
Kinda feels like the 86 has all the right ingredients but hasn't been quite as honed as the RS ?
I prefer RWD without doubt but point the two down a B road back to back and for me it without any shadow of a doubt proves that when done well FWD can be just as much if not more fun than RWD ...
Edited by Simon Owen on Saturday 3rd March 11:11
Simon Owen said:
Debated this long and hard .... i.e. trading our Ohlins equipped 275 Trophy in for a new shape but used 86.
FWD hatch Vs RWD sports car ...
Love the concept of the 86, RWD, NA, LSD, packaging etc and the lack of outright pace isn't an issue for me (I'd prob fix the torque dip) BUT after a long test drive we got back in the Trophy and it still felt really special .... even though it is forced induction and FWD and started life as a mundane hatchback.
Kinda feels like the 86 has all the right ingredients but hasn't been quite as honed as the RS ?
I prefer RWD without doubt but point the two down a B road back to back and for me it without any shadow of a doubt proves that when done well FWD can be just as much if not more fun than RWD ...
I couldn't agree more Simon. Funnily enough I went the other way and while the GT86 was ultimately a very good companion on track and infinitely adjustable before and after the apex, it wouldn't have survived track work very long and would have required investment (brakes, kinematics etc...).FWD hatch Vs RWD sports car ...
Love the concept of the 86, RWD, NA, LSD, packaging etc and the lack of outright pace isn't an issue for me (I'd prob fix the torque dip) BUT after a long test drive we got back in the Trophy and it still felt really special .... even though it is forced induction and FWD and started life as a mundane hatchback.
Kinda feels like the 86 has all the right ingredients but hasn't been quite as honed as the RS ?
I prefer RWD without doubt but point the two down a B road back to back and for me it without any shadow of a doubt proves that when done well FWD can be just as much if not more fun than RWD ...
On the other hand the Megane has proven track worthy and able to take severe pounding without much more than pads and tyres.
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I have driven Elises for 10+ years, I took my Nitron-set-up Elise SC on track a few times.
Now I've just done a proper track day in the GT86, at Blyton Park with Lotus-on-track; it's a short circuit with quite a few interesting corners.,
Surely the GT lacks punch, but it makes you feel a driving god.
The double Blyton corners named Bunga-Bunga in the GT were hilarious.
I can't wait to go on track again. Only thing I miss, dropping the roof when it's sunny ...
Now I've just done a proper track day in the GT86, at Blyton Park with Lotus-on-track; it's a short circuit with quite a few interesting corners.,
Surely the GT lacks punch, but it makes you feel a driving god.
The double Blyton corners named Bunga-Bunga in the GT were hilarious.
I can't wait to go on track again. Only thing I miss, dropping the roof when it's sunny ...
nickfrog said:
I knew you wouldn't disappoint. The 208 at £16k new seems brilliant value for money indeed.
We were on a very wet Snetterton in December me and 2 friends : Megane, M3 E92 and Boxster S. Despite short shifting, traction out of Montreal and Agostini was exactly the same : very poor whether fwd, f.e. RWD or m.e. RWD. There was nothing in it "tractively".
It's as much about the set up, than which wheels are driven. IME anyway.
And I could tell you were a 208 gti owner or fanboy immediately by your response. Sorry for being a bit harsh but it's not sporty looking or appealing in any way, it looks like any shopping hatchback , it could be a fiesta or Kia looking at it. Whether it can be bought at £23k or drive the deal at £16k it's just any other bland fwd hatch. The GT86 at least looks sporty and interesting despite being grossly overpriced.We were on a very wet Snetterton in December me and 2 friends : Megane, M3 E92 and Boxster S. Despite short shifting, traction out of Montreal and Agostini was exactly the same : very poor whether fwd, f.e. RWD or m.e. RWD. There was nothing in it "tractively".
It's as much about the set up, than which wheels are driven. IME anyway.
Edited by nickfrog on Saturday 3rd March 09:55
Each to their own, but any modern Peugeot from the last ten years just look dire imho. The GT86 would perhaps interest me if you could pick em up cheap and drop in a bit more power rather than relying on skinny slippery tyres. Fensport have done some nice conversions but it's decent money on top of an expensive car.
As per my previous list and many other "drivers" cars there are some superb looking and fabulous driving cars out there for £20k
200Plus Club said:
And I could tell you were a 208 gti owner or fanboy immediately by your response.
I am neither, never driven one, I wasn't even sure it existed.200Plus Club said:
Sorry for being a bit harsh but it's not sporty looking or appealing in any way, it looks like any shopping hatchback , it could be a fiesta or Kia looking at it.
Nothing harsh. Looks/image may well be important to you, nothing wrong with that. Others may value the driving experience.200Plus Club said:
As per my previous list and many other "drivers" cars there are some superb looking and fabulous driving cars out there for £20k
kultsch88 said:
As hinted above, the test I'd like to see is used GT86 vs used Megane RS 265/275.
In a position where I'm tempted to downgrade (upgrade?) my Golf R for something more involving.
EVO did this when they were newIn a position where I'm tempted to downgrade (upgrade?) my Golf R for something more involving.
http://www.evo.co.uk/renault/megane-coupe/14126/su...
200Plus Club said:
And I could tell you were a 208 gti owner or fanboy immediately by your response. Sorry for being a bit harsh but it's not sporty looking or appealing in any way, it looks like any shopping hatchback , it could be a fiesta or Kia looking at it. Whether it can be bought at £23k or drive the deal at £16k it's just any other bland fwd hatch. The GT86 at least looks sporty and interesting despite being grossly overpriced.
Each to their own, but any modern Peugeot from the last ten years just look dire imho. The GT86 would perhaps interest me if you could pick em up cheap and drop in a bit more power rather than relying on skinny slippery tyres. Fensport have done some nice conversions but it's decent money on top of an expensive car.
As per my previous list and many other "drivers" cars there are some superb looking and fabulous driving cars out there for £20k
You're thinking of the budget model with steel wheels and 195s I'd sayEach to their own, but any modern Peugeot from the last ten years just look dire imho. The GT86 would perhaps interest me if you could pick em up cheap and drop in a bit more power rather than relying on skinny slippery tyres. Fensport have done some nice conversions but it's decent money on top of an expensive car.
As per my previous list and many other "drivers" cars there are some superb looking and fabulous driving cars out there for £20k
The U.K. model has fatter tyres (215s) than my E46 325i and wider than standard rubber on stuff like a Sierra Cosworth, 200SX, E30 M3 or Merc 190 2.5-16 - all similar weight and power. It pulls 1g on the standard tyres - about the same or more as most 200bhp hot hatches so hardly that slippery
I reckon you'd want 195 or 205 at most in modern rubber to slide it round a lot
Derek Chevalier said:
Thanks for that. And so much for FWD not being fun and/or struggling for traction..."I climb out of it wide-eyed. Duff concurs before I even utter a word. ‘Proper weapon, isn’t it?’ he says. ‘Love the engine and swelling power delivery, plus the extra tug from the diff as you power into a corner.’ Catchpole is also mildly besotted. ‘I find myself driving the Trophy harder than any other car here on any given road. The way it deals with bumps is much better resolved than any of the others. And feeling that diff drag you through a corner is just as exciting as trying to coax the others into oversteer.’ Are we seriously about to say that a front-drive hatch is more fun than a car most people have described as something akin to the saviour of the performance car? The shared grimaces suggest it’s possible. Bloody Renaultsport."
"Meanwhile the bloke in the Megane Trophy on the same road is up to his neck in the action, grinning like a fool and wondering how you can have more fun than he is right now. The simple answer is, at this price, you can’t. And when you slow down and relax the Megane is simply a nicer place to be and feels more special despite its humble roots. Yep, oversteer-obsessed evo gives the nod to the front-drive Megane. "
Peanus said:
As much as the GT86 is a fun and great car, charging £27k for it in my opinion is a bit of a piss-take.
Yes, you're quite right. For just a little bit more one could have a wonderful Interesting comments regarding the RS275. I’ve got a Cup-S and I find myself feeling in two minds about it. It is a focussed and quite aggressive car but it only seems to really come alive when I’m driving >8/10th.
My old (mildly modified) MX5 is more fun, more of the time. I’ve never driven a GT86 but I suspect it could be to my tastes.
It’s not necessarily FWD vs RWD for me - although I do find the MX more rewarding - but I’m largely interested in accessibility and enjoyment on our increasingly speed-averse roads.
My old (mildly modified) MX5 is more fun, more of the time. I’ve never driven a GT86 but I suspect it could be to my tastes.
It’s not necessarily FWD vs RWD for me - although I do find the MX more rewarding - but I’m largely interested in accessibility and enjoyment on our increasingly speed-averse roads.
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