RE: Toyota GT86 v Peugeot Sport 208 GTI

[blade7]

nickfrog said:

Actually now that you have grasped the fact that brand new cars tend to be more expensive than second hand ones you might also understand that a 208 GTI's list price is £22k new or £16k new from Drive The Deal.

£16k is more than I gave DTD for a Fiesta ST2...

[deltaevo16]

Had our GT86 for 4 years, regular servicing, and tyres, not missed a beat.
A joy to drive wet or dry, spicy if you want it, returns 40 mpg.

Our next car a new GT86

[simrae]

I'm surprised no one seems to have mentioned the Mazda MX-5 RF. OK, it's a two-seater, but the the Toyota barely qualifies as a 2+2. The Toyota is a great car, but I'd probably go with the Mazda...

[nickfrog]

blade7 said:

nickfrog said:

Actually now that you have grasped the fact that brand new cars tend to be more expensive than second hand ones you might also understand that a 208 GTI's list price is £22k new or £16k new from Drive The Deal.

£16k is more than I gave DTD for a Fiesta ST2...

That's brilliant news and more evidence that new cars can be very good VFM.

[V10Ace]

Itsallicanafford said:

jamoor said:

Itsallicanafford said:

It’s going over old ground but much that I love the fact the GT86 exists, it’s too expensive for the performance. I understand it’s draw and the less is more performance and fine handling but at £30k it’s just going to get savaged by the new breed of hot hatches which cost the same. Absolutely savaged.

I think I could take hot hatches giving my GT86 a mauling on a trackday buy you would need a thick skin to stomach it when you start holding up the £2k Clio 182’s...

There's alot more to the gt86 than fine handling and performance. It's in the details which no hot hatch will have.

Sure....apart from Rwd, can you explain these?

Gt86 (needs more power) can do anything these can do, and because it is rwd, you also have way more options for fun at even 5 mph....

FWD is "mostly" boring unless going for it.....

no options but to go fast and dig in.... with rwd you have it all...

would love to try a GT86 with 260 + bhp....

Rwd gives options and choices... fwd is just very 1 dimensional....

Edited by V10Ace on Saturday 3rd March 14:52

[V10Ace]

Notanotherturbo said:

SidewaysSi said:

Depends what you look for in a drive of course but having the ability to slide under power on road is a huge benefit.

.

How is it a huge benefit? Fun yes but don't really see it as a benefit on road? Plus the first police car or dash cam wker that sees it will consider you a menace to society :0).

it is a huge benefit to fun!!! Coming out of tight corners, driveways.. leaving the shops... wherever you choose... sideways.. no matter how little or how much... never gets old....

Police arent as numerous on the roads and usually are quite cool about it. if done at very low speeds and they like the car.....

Never really got told off for doing it in the M6 with V10 wailing... they seem to love it... only a quick tyre check... lol

Cameras are wk.... and so are most of the people that have them...

Some of you are relly living and driving in fear.... enjoy "your" life people.... damn...

who cares if a dull, insecure and scared person brands me a menace.... lol... by default i will always be that, to that type of person.... sooo fugg it...


listening to some of you.... i should be rotting away in jail with no car right now. lol

Have fun and enjoy Life.... and all its treats :-) oh and be safe....

Edited by V10Ace on Saturday 3rd March 14:57

Edited by V10Ace on Saturday 3rd March 14:58

[V10Ace]

JimSuperSix said:

200Plus Club said:

25grand or more for those two prize turkeys! The world has gone mad.

Off top of head for £25k

Bmw Z4m Coupe
Exige perhaps
Any type of Elise
Well sorted Sunbeam Lotus
911

Great post, these things are entirely comparable....

Was a great post, its called choices and options.... and there are way better out there...

[nickfrog]

V10Ace said:

Was a great post, its called choices and options.... and there are way better out there...

Indeed. It's entirely conceivable that someone would prefer a GT86 or a 16k 208 to a Sunbeam. It doesn't particularly mean that "the world has gone mad", does it ? Choices and options.

[Too Drunk to Funk]

GravelBen said:

200Plus Club said:

25grand or more for those two prize turkeys! The world has gone mad.

Off top of head for £25k

Bmw Z4m Coupe
Exige perhaps
Any type of Elise
Well sorted Sunbeam Lotus
911

Brand new with factory warranties and everything? Where do I sign!

Never not bought a car without a warranty, never found it to be a problem. You'd rather spunk a few grand in depreciation than take the vanishingly small risk of a few bills in the future?

[Jeremy JS]

problem with 86 is the engine. Sounds agricultural at low revs and rather laboured from there. Assume it still has that torque dip right where you don't want it ? For me, it was never fun when just tootling around in everyday driving. Torque does matter in everyday driving.(Interior still looks cruddy too).

[200Plus Club]

nickfrog said:

Indeed. It's entirely conceivable that someone would prefer a GT86 or a 16k 208 to a Sunbeam. It doesn't particularly mean that "the world has gone mad", does it ? Choices and options.

My comment was about a £23k 208gti and a 25k GT86 as in the article. With hindsight, it still applies just as much to a £16k fwd Peugeot shopping hatch !!!
To be fair, I've also thrashed a £28k Vauxhall Astra vxr around croft, and I wouldn't buy one of them either!! It is of course choices and opinions. That's why we love cars.
:-)

Edited by 200Plus Club on Saturday 3rd March 16:16

[bluesierra]

Jeremy JS said:

problem with 86 is the engine. Sounds agricultural at low revs and rather laboured from there. Assume it still has that torque dip right where you don't want it ? For me, it was never fun when just tootling around in everyday driving. Torque does matter in everyday driving.(Interior still looks cruddy too).

This bugged me about the article, tbh. Thinking about it, I don't recall ever seeing a journalist really talking about the weird torque curve - it's only when you go on the forums that you hear more about it and how it really hampers the driving experience as you try to drive around it. You'd think it would at least be relevant to mention when comparing the 208 and GT86

[nickfrog]

200Plus Club said:

My comment was about a £23k 208gti

Fair enough. And my comment was about the very same car costing £16k new. Price lists have been meaningless for a quite a long time now.

[nickfrog]

bluesierra said:

Jeremy JS said:

problem with 86 is the engine. Sounds agricultural at low revs and rather laboured from there. Assume it still has that torque dip right where you don't want it ? For me, it was never fun when just tootling around in everyday driving. Torque does matter in everyday driving.(Interior still looks cruddy too).

This bugged me about the article, tbh. Thinking about it, I don't recall ever seeing a journalist really talking about the weird torque curve - it's only when you go on the forums that you hear more about it and how it really hampers the driving experience as you try to drive around it. You'd think it would at least be relevant to mention when comparing the 208 and GT86

It's probably why I ultimately sold mine. Plenty enough power but I couldn't live with the atrociously weird delivery. I goes to show that "NASP" ( ) is not always the answer.

[anonymous-user]

V10Ace said:

JimSuperSix said:

200Plus Club said:

25grand or more for those two prize turkeys! The world has gone mad.

Off top of head for £25k

Bmw Z4m Coupe
Exige perhaps
Any type of Elise
Well sorted Sunbeam Lotus
911

Great post, these things are entirely comparable....

Was a great post, its called choices and options.... and there are way better out there...

None of those other cars are comparable options to the original - they may be better in some ways (speed / handling) but they are all infinitely worse in others - consider the warranty (or lack of) and the likely borkage factor, the running and service costs, parts costs, the lack of rear seats in most of them, lack of modern safety stuff like Isofix etc.., lack of boot space, fuel consumption, insurance groups and costs, finding one that's not knackered compared to buying new , finance deals and manufacturer list price reductions etc..etc..etc...

The average buyer of a new Pug GTi or GT86 is not going to be also considering a £25k 911 or a Lotus Exige.

[SidewaysSi]

Most normal (ie useable heavy cars), expect perhaps Renault RS and Porsche GT models need some upgrades to fully deliver on track.

In that vein, I think a s/h GT86 with some Litchfield bits etc. would make a cracking everyday track car for around the £20k mark.

[SidewaysSi]

V10Ace said:

JimSuperSix said:

200Plus Club said:

25grand or more for those two prize turkeys! The world has gone mad.

Off top of head for £25k

Bmw Z4m Coupe
Exige perhaps
Any type of Elise
Well sorted Sunbeam Lotus
911

Great post, these things are entirely comparable....

Was a great post, its called choices and options.... and there are way better out there...

Totally agree, the man talks sense. You could also get a Landcruiser or Cygnet for the same money.

[Danattheopticians]

A GT86 must be pretty st if your putting it up against a Peugeot.

[Toyoda]

nickfrog said:

A 205 GTI 1.9's list was £12,265 in 1994, which would be £23,192 in today's money. And the discounts were far lower then. In other words today's car is quit a lot cheaper.

Yawn yawn inflation yawn. How much was the cheapest new car for sale in the UK in 1994 and how much is the cheapest new car for sale now? About £5995 in both instances. No adjustment for inflation. And the new car today is unquestionably safer, NVH better and more economical. It's not a perfect comparison but then again neither is a 205 and a 208, but it goes a long way to explaining why many baulk at the list price of new cars today.

[kambites]

You could buy a Lada Riva in the early 90s (not sure about 94) for well under £4k.

ETA: It was available until '97, apparently!

Edited by kambites on Saturday 3rd March 18:09