RE: Toyota GT86 v Peugeot Sport 208 GTI
Discussion
I struggle a bit with most of the comparisons made with the GT86.
It's a bit 'out there', on its own - there is nothing else which is directly comparable, especially not hot hatches. Consider the cars I had just before the GT86; E46 330Ci, TVR Griffith and 350Z. Come to think of it, the car that followed was E89 Z4 35i DCT.
I'm hardly the target demographic, but was bowled over the first time I drove a GT86, despite it being a slushmatic. Placed the order there and then (this was June/July 2012).
I'm just not interested in hatchbacks, full stop - well, not as drivers cars anyway. They serve a purpose and are more practical for cheap day to day running. That's it.
The only sub £30k car that I've driven in the last five years that comes close is the MX-5 RF. Thoroughly decent car and a great drive, quite similar in many ways.
It's a bit 'out there', on its own - there is nothing else which is directly comparable, especially not hot hatches. Consider the cars I had just before the GT86; E46 330Ci, TVR Griffith and 350Z. Come to think of it, the car that followed was E89 Z4 35i DCT.
I'm hardly the target demographic, but was bowled over the first time I drove a GT86, despite it being a slushmatic. Placed the order there and then (this was June/July 2012).
I'm just not interested in hatchbacks, full stop - well, not as drivers cars anyway. They serve a purpose and are more practical for cheap day to day running. That's it.
The only sub £30k car that I've driven in the last five years that comes close is the MX-5 RF. Thoroughly decent car and a great drive, quite similar in many ways.
t if your putting it up against a Peugeot.
Great article and reminds me of a personal comparison...i.e My current Mazda MX-5 NB1.8is vs the 205 GTi 1.9 we used to own. Both great cars and very different. The 205 has better steering and better body control, but you really can't beat the fun and feel of RWD and the MX-5 puts the bigger smile on my face on every roundabout.....
So I totally agree with the verdict In this test, I'd take the GT86 every time...
Toyoda said:
Yawn yawn inflation yawn. How much was the cheapest new car for sale in the UK in 1994 and how much is the cheapest new car for sale now? About £5995 in both instances.
kambites said:
You could buy a Lada Riva (...) for well under £4k.
Seems more or less consistent with a 205 GTI at £12k and a 208 GTI at £16kEdited by nickfrog on Saturday 3rd March 19:44
JimSuperSix said:
V10Ace said:
JimSuperSix said:
200Plus Club said:
25grand or more for those two prize turkeys! The world has gone mad.
Off top of head for £25k
Bmw Z4m Coupe
Exige perhaps
Any type of Elise
Well sorted Sunbeam Lotus
911
Great post, these things are entirely comparable.... Off top of head for £25k
Bmw Z4m Coupe
Exige perhaps
Any type of Elise
Well sorted Sunbeam Lotus
911
someone like me on the other hand who would never even dream of owning a peugeot or toyota like this, ends up in the 911 or Lotus etc....
Follow the heard, stay a sheep....... Its always been the masses that come off worse due to a lack of knowledge and being "afraid"
ah well.... least you got warranty..... right.. lol
V10Ace said:
of course not.... thats why they end up in overpriced crap like these....
someone like me on the other hand who would never even dream of owning a peugeot or toyota like this, ends up in the 911 or Lotus etc....
Follow the heard, stay a sheep....... Its always been the masses that come off worse due to a lack of knowledge and being "afraid"
oh well....
Sales figures would suggest anything but being a sheep if you bought a GT86. You sound very insecure tbh.someone like me on the other hand who would never even dream of owning a peugeot or toyota like this, ends up in the 911 or Lotus etc....
Follow the heard, stay a sheep....... Its always been the masses that come off worse due to a lack of knowledge and being "afraid"
oh well....
Jual Mass Flywheel said:
Sales figures would suggest anything but being a sheep if you bought a GT86. You sound very insecure tbh.
Exactly, I see far more Porsches on my travels than GT86s and I cant recall ever seeing a 208 GTI Peugeot Sport model....You just can't compare new cars v old. Deprecation always makes a fool of new car prices....equally you could say that paying £77K for a brand new 911 is madness when you could have an E46 M3, Mk1 Lotus Elise, 996 Carrera 4S, Clio Williams, Honda Integra R DC2 and Subaru Impreza RB5 for the same money...a bit less actually!
V10Ace said:
JimSuperSix said:
V10Ace said:
JimSuperSix said:
200Plus Club said:
25grand or more for those two prize turkeys! The world has gone mad.
Off top of head for £25k
Bmw Z4m Coupe
Exige perhaps
Any type of Elise
Well sorted Sunbeam Lotus
911
Great post, these things are entirely comparable.... Off top of head for £25k
Bmw Z4m Coupe
Exige perhaps
Any type of Elise
Well sorted Sunbeam Lotus
911
someone like me on the other hand who would never even dream of owning a peugeot or toyota like this, ends up in the 911 or Lotus etc....
Follow the heard, stay a sheep....... Its always been the masses that come off worse due to a lack of knowledge and being "afraid"
ah well.... least you got warranty..... right.. lol
From a purely financial viewpoint, the GT86 makes sense, particularly if you run it as a sole car. In addition, most Lotus owners will have something else as a more practical car as will many 911 owners.
Of course the Toyota can't hit the highs of the others but the majority of people aren't interested in that.
nickfrog said:
Seems more or less consistent with a 205 GTI at £12k and a 208 GTI at £16k
Firstly we're talking list price not DTD price.Edited by nickfrog on Saturday 3rd March 19:44
Secondly i don't think a Riva was well under 4k in 1994 but regardless let's say we're talking a modern supermini. Base model Micra in 1994 was just under 6k. Base model sandero (part of the Renault/nissan family) today, just under 6k.
25k for a hot tiny pug today is a joke.
Edited by Toyoda on Saturday 3rd March 21:02
Toyoda said:
Secondly i don't think a Riva was well under 4k in 1994 but regardless let's say we're talking a modern supermini. Base model Micra in 2004 was just under 6k. Base model sandero (part of the Renault/nissan family) today, just under 6k.
OK so lets be fair and compare like with like... the base model Micra today has a list price of over £12k. Or if you must use the Dacia as a benchmark, what was the cheapest hatchback available in 1994? Because it certainly wasn't the Micra. A Skoda Felicia, maybe?
Edited by kambites on Saturday 3rd March 20:36
kambites said:
OK so lets be fair and compare like with like... the base model Micra today has a list price of over £12k.
Or if you must use the Dacia as a benchmark, what was the cheapest hatchback available in 1994? Because it certainly wasn't the Micra.
A Micra today can't be compared to a Micra of old just like a fiesta of 1994 can't be compared to a fiesta of today. In the passage of time the city car segment has appeared, brands have developed etc. If you look at bog standard superminis from 1994 (as the city car didnt exist but the spec back then was comparable) from mainstream manufacturers (so no Ladas or peroduas etc) then 6k will still buy a city car or in the case of the sandero, a supermini.Or if you must use the Dacia as a benchmark, what was the cheapest hatchback available in 1994? Because it certainly wasn't the Micra.
GT86 is a marmite car, either you love or hate them. That said, looks like the comments here have come down to a sensible level, before comment section would be very lively, not necessarily for the better...
After 4,5 years, still love driving our GT86. Was meant to be replaced by hot hatch/family estate Leon ST Cupra, but it never left. Both are modified for the best driver experience, and they just aren't comparable. The Leon is much quicker (4kg/bhp vs 6kg/bhp) and as such more thrilling (the few times there is safe opportunity), and taking it easy much more comfortable. The GT86 is much more involving at any speed, much more enjoyable for the sake of driving. A true little sportscar that, all in all, remains practical (more so that say a 911). Simple concept, if it weren't that an exceedingly large portion of the car buying public never have experienced such and thus (completely) miss the point even on an occasional test drive. Others love it. As did I.
As for the GT86 not having any performance. Well here in Sweden we have a handling series called challenge.nu, same track everytime. Quite similar to US autocross. There the record holder all categories (from caterhams to lambos) is a GT86 with original power. Yes with track tyres but so has the competition. Does say something about the handling...
After 4,5 years, still love driving our GT86. Was meant to be replaced by hot hatch/family estate Leon ST Cupra, but it never left. Both are modified for the best driver experience, and they just aren't comparable. The Leon is much quicker (4kg/bhp vs 6kg/bhp) and as such more thrilling (the few times there is safe opportunity), and taking it easy much more comfortable. The GT86 is much more involving at any speed, much more enjoyable for the sake of driving. A true little sportscar that, all in all, remains practical (more so that say a 911). Simple concept, if it weren't that an exceedingly large portion of the car buying public never have experienced such and thus (completely) miss the point even on an occasional test drive. Others love it. As did I.
As for the GT86 not having any performance. Well here in Sweden we have a handling series called challenge.nu, same track everytime. Quite similar to US autocross. There the record holder all categories (from caterhams to lambos) is a GT86 with original power. Yes with track tyres but so has the competition. Does say something about the handling...
Edited by Onehp on Saturday 3rd March 21:22
Toyoda said:
A Micra today can't be compared to a Micra of old just like a fiesta of 1994 can't be compared to a fiesta of today. In the passage of time the city car segment has appeared, brands have developed etc. If you look at bog standard superminis from 1994 (as the city car didnt exist but the spec back then was comparable) from mainstream manufacturers (so no Ladas or peroduas etc) then 6k will still buy a city car or in the case of the sandero, a supermini.
You're saying we can't compare a Micra now to a Micra then because cars have got better? That's a ridiculous argument, they still fill exactly the same market space - they're small mainstream family cars.If you can't compare a 1994 Micra to a current one, you also can't compare a 205 GTi to a 208 GTi and so the whole discussion is pointless.
Edited by kambites on Saturday 3rd March 21:02
kambites said:
You're saying we can't compare a Micra now to a Micra then because cars have got better? That's a ridiculous argument, they still fill exactly the same market space - they're small mainstream family cars.
If you can't compare a 1994 Micra to a current one, you also can't compare a 205 GTi to a 208 GTi and so the whole discussion is pointless.
Nope, they share the same name and nothing else. The up gti is being compared to the mk1 golf gti. The current golf gti can't be compared to the 70s golf. It really isn't that difficult to grasp. If you can't compare a 1994 Micra to a current one, you also can't compare a 205 GTi to a 208 GTi and so the whole discussion is pointless.
Edited by kambites on Saturday 3rd March 21:02
Toyoda said:
Nope, they share the same name and nothing else. The up gti is being compared to the mk1 golf gti. The current golf gti can't be compared to the 70s golf. It really isn't that difficult to grasp.
So you agree that comparing the 208 to the 205 is also pointless? In which case why are we having this discussion at all? s m said:
200Plus Club said:
And I could tell you were a 208 gti owner or fanboy immediately by your response. Sorry for being a bit harsh but it's not sporty looking or appealing in any way, it looks like any shopping hatchback , it could be a fiesta or Kia looking at it. Whether it can be bought at £23k or drive the deal at £16k it's just any other bland fwd hatch. The GT86 at least looks sporty and interesting despite being grossly overpriced.
Each to their own, but any modern Peugeot from the last ten years just look dire imho. The GT86 would perhaps interest me if you could pick em up cheap and drop in a bit more power rather than relying on skinny slippery tyres. Fensport have done some nice conversions but it's decent money on top of an expensive car.
As per my previous list and many other "drivers" cars there are some superb looking and fabulous driving cars out there for £20k
You're thinking of the budget model with steel wheels and 195s I'd sayEach to their own, but any modern Peugeot from the last ten years just look dire imho. The GT86 would perhaps interest me if you could pick em up cheap and drop in a bit more power rather than relying on skinny slippery tyres. Fensport have done some nice conversions but it's decent money on top of an expensive car.
As per my previous list and many other "drivers" cars there are some superb looking and fabulous driving cars out there for £20k
The U.K. model has fatter tyres (215s) than my E46 325i and wider than standard rubber on stuff like a Sierra Cosworth, 200SX, E30 M3 or Merc 190 2.5-16 - all similar weight and power. It pulls 1g on the standard tyres - about the same or more as most 200bhp hot hatches so hardly that slippery
I reckon you'd want 195 or 205 at most in modern rubber to slide it round a lot
Two good cars that have been around for some time now and both somewhat forgotten or neglected by the public - thanks for reminding us of their existence!
I don't like the Peugeot's interior - the small wheel and dials are odd. I admire the GT86, and the power issue isn't an issue for me - enough to have fun on most roads.
I don't like the Peugeot's interior - the small wheel and dials are odd. I admire the GT86, and the power issue isn't an issue for me - enough to have fun on most roads.
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