Insurance cancelled due to painted wheels !
Discussion
thenortherner said:
Insurers don't seem to take a common sense approach to anything.
I had a Mountune kit fitted to my Fiesta ST. I rang the insurer to notify them. They advised me they couldn't insure the car because it was modified.
I'd already had a quote back from the same insurer via a comparison site, with the car recognised as a Mountune edition, so I knew they were able to insure it.
Several hours and numerous calls later they advised the underwriter of my policy wouldn't allow for modifications. However, other underwriters they use would do, hence being able to get a quote from the same insurer.
They had to cancel the policy and I had to take a brand new one out with them.
Because this was 6 months into my first insurance policy I had to start again on getting my 1 year's no claims. They won't accept there was no gap in cover.
w
kers.
Sorry but I'm on the insurers side with this one. Changing things parts way through the policy is always a risk. If the particular underwriter says no, then the broker can't really do anything other than cancel and reissue with a different underwriter. You could have removed the kit and waited until renewal. Also a factory fitted Mountune isn't a modification...DIY moutune is...fairly obvious.I had a Mountune kit fitted to my Fiesta ST. I rang the insurer to notify them. They advised me they couldn't insure the car because it was modified.
I'd already had a quote back from the same insurer via a comparison site, with the car recognised as a Mountune edition, so I knew they were able to insure it.
Several hours and numerous calls later they advised the underwriter of my policy wouldn't allow for modifications. However, other underwriters they use would do, hence being able to get a quote from the same insurer.
They had to cancel the policy and I had to take a brand new one out with them.
Because this was 6 months into my first insurance policy I had to start again on getting my 1 year's no claims. They won't accept there was no gap in cover.
w
kers.Lesson learnt there chap.
Edited by Dr Doofenshmirtz on Tuesday 6th March 20:18
Murphy16 said:
Never had an accident I've claimed for, but i do have some degree of paranoia that if i do one day have a crash and need to claim, my insurer will find a eay to worm out of it. Sticker on your window? Invalidated. Refurbed wheels? Invalidated. Stolen from an adress other than yours or your place of work? Invalidated. Motorists in this country pay through the arse for insurance just for them to try weasel out of it. My girlfriend had a horrendous experience with her insurer after being involved in a four car pile up, trying to wriggle out of responsibility and looking for any detail to try incriminate her so they wouldn't have to pay out.
Nothing riles me up more than people paying for a legally required service that they then don't recieve or get conned out of.
Thankfully - the ombudsman is getting a bit more hot on this. Nothing riles me up more than people paying for a legally required service that they then don't recieve or get conned out of.
The onus is very much on the insurer to prove that the 'modification' had a material effect on a claim. They also have to prove that the policy-holder didn't act in good faith (e.g. intentionally not disclosing a mod that would have a material effect on whatever claim you had made). A third or forth hand owner of a vehicle could very well be unaware that their car isn't completely stock/standard if any mods were not blatantly obvious.
If you or I didn't declare something minor like a wheel refurb - I suspect the insurer would have to do some serious legal athletics to prove that a) it had a material effect on the claim and b) you or I were intentionally deceptive in not disclosing a 'mod' which 99% of the population wouldn't think to disclose c) it was even a modification in the first place.
(The OP's example of an insurance company falls flat on it's face on all three counts.)
Exceptions of course apply and I may have been very lucky - but my experience of dealing with insurers (specialist and mainstream) has been a reasonably positive as far as necessary evils go.
You need to lodge a formal complaint with Zurich straight away and as soon as the complaint is made, escalate it. Insurers have a special 'customer care' department that operates separately to the normal complaints department. LV have one, and when LV and their repairers and engineers failed to fit the correct axle on my car 3 times in succession then plucked knackered bearings out of the wrong axle and stuff them in to the correct axle, causing my rear wheels to fall off, it was the 'higher' department that dealt with my screaming blue murder complaint.
I still sued them but that's another story.
Anyhoo, you can't go to the ombudsman until you have lodged a complaint with Zurich first. Once you've lodged a complaint, they are obliged to send you all the guff about escalating the complaint to the ombudsman. Secondly, the ombudsman can't examine the complaint until Zurich have had time to respond. If Zurich fail to respond to the escalated complaint within the statutory time period, or you're still not happy, only then can you escalate it to the ombudsman.
As for the social media route, whilst I'd echo the above sentiments about dragging them through the mud, I would exercise caution as that might compromise the complaints procedure.
As for the 'admin fee' every time I've bought insurance there's a 2 week 'cooling off' period where I can cancel the policy with no penalty.
Personally, I would hit social media and find out how many other people were forced to cancel their policies, and incur a penalty. My guess is that Zurich do this a lot. Collect a load of fees and penalties, it all adds up over time. If an ombudsman decision goes against them, their little money earner goes up in smoke.
Lastly, check the ombudsmans website for previous rulings. If another insurance company has done the same and a complaint was upheld, simply tell zurich to eff off and refund you the fees plus £150 goodwill gesture. If the upheld complaint was already against zurich then you have them by the tight and curlies; escalate the complaint to director level with the tagline "I see the ombudsman has already told you this is a no no, so instead I will complain to the FCA instead as you clearly hold the ombudsman in contempt".
I still sued them but that's another story.
Anyhoo, you can't go to the ombudsman until you have lodged a complaint with Zurich first. Once you've lodged a complaint, they are obliged to send you all the guff about escalating the complaint to the ombudsman. Secondly, the ombudsman can't examine the complaint until Zurich have had time to respond. If Zurich fail to respond to the escalated complaint within the statutory time period, or you're still not happy, only then can you escalate it to the ombudsman.
As for the social media route, whilst I'd echo the above sentiments about dragging them through the mud, I would exercise caution as that might compromise the complaints procedure.
As for the 'admin fee' every time I've bought insurance there's a 2 week 'cooling off' period where I can cancel the policy with no penalty.
Personally, I would hit social media and find out how many other people were forced to cancel their policies, and incur a penalty. My guess is that Zurich do this a lot. Collect a load of fees and penalties, it all adds up over time. If an ombudsman decision goes against them, their little money earner goes up in smoke.
Lastly, check the ombudsmans website for previous rulings. If another insurance company has done the same and a complaint was upheld, simply tell zurich to eff off and refund you the fees plus £150 goodwill gesture. If the upheld complaint was already against zurich then you have them by the tight and curlies; escalate the complaint to director level with the tagline "I see the ombudsman has already told you this is a no no, so instead I will complain to the FCA instead as you clearly hold the ombudsman in contempt".
Janluke said:
Slightly off topic but what's the issue with stickers?
I'm assuming the statistics show cars with stickers have more accidents?
I'd take a guess that statistically the type of person who paints a cars wheels black and puts stickers all over it is more likely to drive like a wI'm assuming the statistics show cars with stickers have more accidents?
ker. I work for an insurance firm but not the one mentioned here. I am also one of the "underlings" that you are dealing with over the phone. In some companies (including mine) the underwriters are not allowed to speak to the customers so largely they won't be able to help you.
Insurance is an industry that is so wrapped up in red tape that if a company disagrees with you on something you won't have much luck overturning them. Largely, underwriters will stick with their decision unless new information is given so arguing is a complete no-go. Managers rarely have any further authority than their subordinates and their job is to ensure everything is meeting legal requirements, everyone is on time etc.
People who work in most general insurance don't have a huge knowledge of what they are actually looking at. It is a very much "guidelines say no" industry where very few situations get considered on their own merits. They see most situations through "Insurance goggles" and largely, it works, but there are outliers like you. Most people are unlikely to have issue.
Best thing you can do is file a formal complaint with them. Make sure it goes to a specialist complaints department so don't back down until you get them. If none of the above works get on to the financial ombudsman because it costs them around £80 I think if you really want to spite them.
You are pretty likely to get the cancellation fee waived. Probably won't get any compensation but it's worth a punt.
Insurance is an industry that is so wrapped up in red tape that if a company disagrees with you on something you won't have much luck overturning them. Largely, underwriters will stick with their decision unless new information is given so arguing is a complete no-go. Managers rarely have any further authority than their subordinates and their job is to ensure everything is meeting legal requirements, everyone is on time etc.
People who work in most general insurance don't have a huge knowledge of what they are actually looking at. It is a very much "guidelines say no" industry where very few situations get considered on their own merits. They see most situations through "Insurance goggles" and largely, it works, but there are outliers like you. Most people are unlikely to have issue.
Best thing you can do is file a formal complaint with them. Make sure it goes to a specialist complaints department so don't back down until you get them. If none of the above works get on to the financial ombudsman because it costs them around £80 I think if you really want to spite them.
You are pretty likely to get the cancellation fee waived. Probably won't get any compensation but it's worth a punt.
You can complain all you want...the fact is the car came from the factory with silver wheels...and now they're black.
That is technically a modification...even though it's only a small cosmetic one.
As for stickers...I suppose it's just easier to just lump them all as a modification rather than argue over a small PH sticker, or one of those stupid things teens stick across the whole lower half of the front windscreen.
Case in point...I present this lovely 'Stanced Nation' Clio
Would you insure this? i bloody well wouldn't...so you can see the point?
That is technically a modification...even though it's only a small cosmetic one.
As for stickers...I suppose it's just easier to just lump them all as a modification rather than argue over a small PH sticker, or one of those stupid things teens stick across the whole lower half of the front windscreen.
Case in point...I present this lovely 'Stanced Nation' Clio
Would you insure this? i bloody well wouldn't...so you can see the point?
Gavia said:
I agree that they’ve pushed this too far, but the wheels aren’t standard, they are modified, albeit badly and temporarily. Not letting you put them back to the standard colour is a bit daft though.
They are the standard wheels finished in a non-standard colour. Surely its stretching it a bit to class them as a modified wheel ? All very daft either way ! MuscleSaloon said:
Gavia said:
I agree that they’ve pushed this too far, but the wheels aren’t standard, they are modified, albeit badly and temporarily. Not letting you put them back to the standard colour is a bit daft though.
They are the standard wheels finished in a non-standard colour. Surely its stretching it a bit to class them as a modified wheel ? All very daft either way ! 
Janluke said:
Slightly off topic but what's the issue with stickers?
I'm assuming the statistics show cars with stickers have more accidents?
Stickers are quite surprising. Here in Manchester there are loads of cars on the roads sporting the 'Manchester Bee' charity sticker on their cars to raise money for the victims of the Manchester terror attack. Does this mean all their insurances are invalid? What about dealership window stickers?I'm assuming the statistics show cars with stickers have more accidents?
Vocht said:
Stickers are quite surprising. Here in Manchester there are loads of cars on the roads sporting the 'Manchester Bee' charity sticker on their cars to raise money for the victims of the Manchester terror attack. Does this mean all their insurances are invalid? What about dealership window stickers?
Nofastbikes76 said:
I will most definitely be making a complaint to the ombudsman,
Please do, and keep us informed of how it goes.As a slight aside, I posted this a while back
monthefish said:
Just had an interesting chat with the insurer, or, to be more specific, their clueless representative.
She stated they need to be notified of all incidents. Fair enough.
I asked her to define 'incident'.
She asked what I meant.
I explained the question, i.e. 'what, in the insurers view, constitutes an 'incidient' that they insist on being notified of.
She replied 'anything that causes damage to the vehicle'.
I said 'even if no claim is made whatsoever?'
'Yes'.
'What if you aren't going to get it repaired?'.
She said 'yes, everything'.
'What about a cat that walks across the roof of your vehicle and puts some scratches in the roof'
'Yes'.
'What about stone chips that you get everyday on motorways?'
'Ermm....'
She stated they need to be notified of all incidents. Fair enough.
I asked her to define 'incident'.
She asked what I meant.
I explained the question, i.e. 'what, in the insurers view, constitutes an 'incidient' that they insist on being notified of.
She replied 'anything that causes damage to the vehicle'.
I said 'even if no claim is made whatsoever?'
'Yes'.
'What if you aren't going to get it repaired?'.
She said 'yes, everything'.
'What about a cat that walks across the roof of your vehicle and puts some scratches in the roof'
'Yes'.
'What about stone chips that you get everyday on motorways?'
'Ermm....'
How far do you go? A poorly repaired panel that doesn't match? Perhaps a replacement wing that you can't afford to have painted on an old car? It is about time insurance companies are taken to task, as said previously, it's a legal requirement yet insurers will try their best to avoid paying out.
Sounds like the box fitter has more influence than the broker. To be able to cancel some young kids policy over a rattle cannes wheels sounds daft. At least they should have said your wheels need to be silver, please put them back, but alas no. Knee jerk reacting from black box jerk.
Sounds like the box fitter has more influence than the broker. To be able to cancel some young kids policy over a rattle cannes wheels sounds daft. At least they should have said your wheels need to be silver, please put them back, but alas no. Knee jerk reacting from black box jerk.
Dr Doofenshmirtz said:
You can complain all you want...the fact is the car came from the factory with silver wheels...and now they're black.
That is technically a modification...even though it's only a small cosmetic one.
As for stickers...I suppose it's just easier to just lump them all as a modification rather than argue over a small PH sticker, or one of those stupid things teens stick across the whole lower half of the front windscreen.
Case in point...I present this lovely 'Stanced Nation' Clio
Would you insure this? i bloody well wouldn't...so you can see the point?
Does any car come with a Blackbox fitted as standard, if not then is not the box itself a modification.That is technically a modification...even though it's only a small cosmetic one.
As for stickers...I suppose it's just easier to just lump them all as a modification rather than argue over a small PH sticker, or one of those stupid things teens stick across the whole lower half of the front windscreen.
Case in point...I present this lovely 'Stanced Nation' Clio
Would you insure this? i bloody well wouldn't...so you can see the point?
Yep - you need to be really careful what you do and do not tell your insurers. People always say 'best tell your insurance co' if you have a scrape or small knock in the car park as an example...but this will have to be declared for the next 5 years in the 'claims' section if you do!
Edited by Dr Doofenshmirtz on Tuesday 6th March 21:02
Mental.
The problem started by accepting this wky arsed black box insurance. Pile of shyte idea, installed by piles of shyte. Some will remember the thread y the dad of a girl at uni who had to get her to come home and drive the car after threats of cancelled insurance as the box handt moved in some weeks and they said it must have been disconnected.
Pay the extra to dump it, otherwise once she has it, she will have it for life.
Paint the wheels. Tell the current insurer to stick it up there arse, tell everyone you know to not spend their money there. Even if it costs a chunk more, better you spend a bit more with a decent company, than a penny with a bunch ofs, IMHO
The problem started by accepting this w
ky arsed black box insurance. Pile of shyte idea, installed by piles of shyte. Some will remember the thread y the dad of a girl at uni who had to get her to come home and drive the car after threats of cancelled insurance as the box handt moved in some weeks and they said it must have been disconnected. Pay the extra to dump it, otherwise once she has it, she will have it for life.
Paint the wheels. Tell the current insurer to stick it up there arse, tell everyone you know to not spend their money there. Even if it costs a chunk more, better you spend a bit more with a decent company, than a penny with a bunch of
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