RE: JLR Classic Defender V8: Driven

[anonymous-user]

TooMany2cvs said:

It's only £150k, y'know.

So what ?

We both know they will sell every last one.

[Dr Interceptor]

TooMany2cvs said:

It's only £150k, y'know.

Yup... And if you'd like a zero miles Jensen Interceptor by Cropredy, that starts at £248,000 - not sure if that includes VAT.

Daft comparison I know, but if you have the cash, and want one, why not? Same with the LR V8.

[Hard-Drive]

hondansx said:

So funny reading this thread with all the know-it-alls.

I am one of these 'mugs' buying one of these cars. In fact mine is going to be the same as tested - build #4 in Fuji White arriving in April.

I'm also an owner of another unofficial V8, built at a so called 'fraction' of the price. It's been with Overfinch, JE, Nene and other specialists. It has actually cost over £100,000 and still is not right. I've driven many and the reality is none of the aftermarket options are as good as the official product which I have now driven.

Land Rover's version has been driven to the Sahara (in fact two went, towing new RR Hybrids) and back. Mike Cross signed off the ride and handling himself and the rest of the testing I was told about was seriously impressive, and quite simply no aftermarket gets close to this.

And the result? It feels like a complete car; a cohesive car. It's not just 'fun' in a rose-tainted way, it's genuinely good. I think people are incredibly naive to expect a manufacturer to sell a properly tested, warrantied product in small numbers.

The reality is, I couldn't care less what people think. I think it's a shame people would rather moan than celebrate it's existence. I will have the Defender I always wanted, and that's all that matters.

Whilst I very much admire your dedication to the brand, I still think you're crackers to be honest! So you've basically dropped a quarter of a million quid on two V8 Land Rovers? To be honest I just don't see what you are trying to achieve. I absolutely get why you might want to make a 90 as good as possible for your needs, but like a high end carbon road bike, you are massively into the law of diminishing returns. Everyone knows that if you wanted a really fast carbon road bike, you throw away the rule book and make it a super light recumbent...however the UCI have rules about the "shape" and weight of a bike, and that's why bikes look like they do. With a Defender, you're always massively compromised by a big heavy ladder chassis, crap driving position, beam axles and a hundred other things. But that's part of the appeal! I'll happily walk past my high spec 5 series and a Porsche Boxster at the weekend to drive my 32 year old 110, with all it's quirks, bits that don't work, general lack of performance and lack of comfort. Because it's class-less, fun, and the flaws are the fun. And I don't care if it gets muddy, and I think nothing about parking it in a public car park and probably wouldn't even notice a door ding. And I'm sure Mark Cross (whoever he is) was very happy to sign that it was a very good Saharan tow car, but to be honest what you have described, to me, pales into insignificance compared to one river crossing where I open the doors to let the water out afterwards, or one descent of Stanage edge or similar.

If you're buying for investment purposes, it's probably a very smart move if you have the means to do it and big V8 4x4s aren't banned in the next 20 years or so. If you were spending serious cash on an overland monster to drive around the globe in, I get that too, as to a certain extent your life would depend on it. But I don't see why you'd spend a hundred grand's worth of polish on a fifty grand turd (with no offence to the Defender we all know and love) that realistically you will never take off road (unless you really are bonkers) £150k is big yacht/light aircraft/GT Porsche/garage full of most LR models ever built territory. But each to their own...I do salute you...and think WT actual F...at the same time.

Edited by Hard-Drive on Thursday 8th March 09:26

[TooMany2cvs]

Dr Interceptor said:

TooMany2cvs said:

It's only £150k, y'know.

Yup... And if you'd like a zero miles Jensen Interceptor by Cropredy, that starts at £248,000 - not sure if that includes VAT.

Daft comparison I know, but if you have the cash, and want one, why not? Same with the LR V8.

That'll be a whoosh...

I'm suggesting £150k isn't enough to give a Defender tight shut lines etc.

[Plug Life]

Dr Interceptor said:

Plus the fact that it's being rebuilt by Land Rover Heritage will make it very special indeed, I'd imagine the fit and finish will be excellent.

If it's about LR's heritage they must keep the water ingress, it's a classic feature.

[Dr Interceptor]

TooMany2cvs said:

That'll be a whoosh...

I'm suggesting £150k isn't enough to give a Defender tight shut lines etc.

Whoosh me away

[rxe]

I have a "home made" Defender 110 with a 4.6 V8 in it. It's a comical vehicle, but not one that I would consider paying 150K for, even with perfect fit, finish and better handling. The whole point of Defenders is that they are filthy and rattly. The rattles may have been built in by Land-Rover, or they maybe all the shotgun cartridges banging around in the dash. Your dog sits on the passenger seat next to you, and you can stick dead things in the back and not worry that much. If I'd paid £150,000 for it, I'd be worried about the state of the carpets every time I got into it.

It's like making a Faberge Egg out of plastic. It still takes skill, effort and a lot of time (hence money). To me, it remains pointless.

[Burwood]

Hard-Drive said:

hondansx said:

So funny reading this thread with all the know-it-alls.

I am one of these 'mugs' buying one of these cars. In fact mine is going to be the same as tested - build #4 in Fuji White arriving in April.

I'm also an owner of another unofficial V8, built at a so called 'fraction' of the price. It's been with Overfinch, JE, Nene and other specialists. It has actually cost over £100,000 and still is not right. I've driven many and the reality is none of the aftermarket options are as good as the official product which I have now driven.

Land Rover's version has been driven to the Sahara (in fact two went, towing new RR Hybrids) and back. Mike Cross signed off the ride and handling himself and the rest of the testing I was told about was seriously impressive, and quite simply no aftermarket gets close to this.

And the result? It feels like a complete car; a cohesive car. It's not just 'fun' in a rose-tainted way, it's genuinely good. I think people are incredibly naive to expect a manufacturer to sell a properly tested, warrantied product in small numbers.

The reality is, I couldn't care less what people think. I think it's a shame people would rather moan than celebrate it's existence. I will have the Defender I always wanted, and that's all that matters.

Whilst I very much admire your dedication to the brand, I still think you're crackers to be honest! So you've basically dropped a quarter of a million quid on two V8 Land Rovers? To be honest I just don't see what you are trying to achieve. I absolutely get why you might want to make a 90 as good as possible for your needs, but like a high end carbon road bike, you are massively into the law of diminishing returns. Everyone knows that if you wanted a really fast carbon road bike, you throw away the rule book and make it a super light recumbent...however the UCI have rules about the "shape" and weight of a bike, and that's why bikes look like they do. With a Defender, you're always massively compromised by a big heavy ladder chassis, crap driving position, beam axles and a hundred other things. But that's part of the appeal! I'll happily walk past my high spec 5 series and a Porsche Boxster at the weekend to drive my 32 year old 110, with all it's quirks, bits that don't work, general lack of performance and lack of comfort. Because it's class-less, fun, and the flaws are the fun. And I don't care if it gets muddy, and I think nothing about parking it in a public car park and probably wouldn't even notice a door ding. And I'm sure Mark Cross (whoever he is) was very happy to sign that it was a very good Saharan tow car, but to be honest what you have described, to me, pales into insignificance compared to one river crossing where I open the doors to let the water out afterwards, or one descent of Stanage edge or similar.

If you're buying for investment purposes, it's probably a very smart move if you have the means to do it and big V8 4x4s aren't banned in the next 20 years or so. If you were spending serious cash on an overland monster to drive around the globe in, I get that too, as to a certain extent your life would depend on it. But I don't see why you'd spend a hundred grand's worth of polish on a fifty grand turd (with no offence to the Defender we all know and love) that realistically you will never take off road (unless you really are bonkers) £150k is big yacht/light aircraft/GT Porsche/garage full of most LR models ever built territory. But each to their own...I do salute you...and think WT actual F...at the same time.

Edited by Hard-Drive on Thursday 8th March 09:26

Just want to point out that £150k is not 'big yacht' money.

[Wacky Racer]

sgtBerbatov said:

How can it be the Defender it should've always been? All you've done is throw it round tarmac. The Defender was intended to be thrown about a muddy field, and it does that job fairly well.

If the driver wants a car that can do silly speeds and quick acceleration, then they can always go for a Jaguar. But a Defender is meant to be thrown off road, not on road.

100% this.

[Hard-Drive]

Burwood said:

Just want to point out that £150k is not 'big yacht' money.

I'm not talking Superyachts, but it's enough for a 50' yacht that will quite happily take you round the world for a few years in comfort and safety. And 50' is big in my mind!

[LewisR]

Brynjaminjones said:

LewisR said:

"all-wheel drive" ??
What's wrong with stating 4WD ?

I would guess that it's to highlight that it's in permanent 4wd with a centre differential.

The Ford Sierra XR4x4 had permanent 4wd with a centre differential and that was sold as being four wheel drive.

"All wheel drive" is just marketing guff (when used for 4-wheeled cars).

www.flickr.com/photos/61090099@N04/31626036064

Edited by LewisR on Thursday 8th March 15:14

[Brynjaminjones]

LewisR said:

The Ford Sierra XR4x4 had permanent 4wd with a centre differential and that was sold as being four wheel drive.

"All wheel drive" is just marketing guff (when used for 4-wheeled cars).

www.flickr.com/photos/61090099@N04/31626036064

Edited by LewisR on Thursday 8th March 15:14

I was under the impression that AWD is 4wd, but 4wd isn't always AWD. Something that doesn't have a centre differential for example, so can't be driven in 4wd on the road wouldn't normally be referred to as AWD.

It is however one of those things where of course you get a different answer depending on where you look. One thing though is that no matter what source you look at, they do at least acknowledge that there's a difference.

This is one source that I've read before:
https://www.motoring.com.au/what-is-the-difference...

[TooMany2cvs]

Brynjaminjones said:

I was under the impression that AWD is 4wd, but 4wd isn't always AWD.

It's very simple.

AWD means all wheels driven. There may be 4, 6 or 8 of them in total.
4wd means four wheels driven. This may be out of a total 4, 6 or 8.
4x4 means four wheels, four driven.

[aaron_2000]

TooMany2cvs said:

That'll be a whoosh...

I'm suggesting £150k isn't enough to give a Defender tight shut lines etc.

Do people seriously still give you the time of day?

[DonkeyApple]

hothatchery7 said:

JLR didn't even develop it! I know this for 100% fact if anybody cares to argue!

So does everyone don’t they? It’s been in the reports that it’s the JE Zulu product fundamentally hasn’t it?

Which is a nice bit of history to have the company back involved with the factory.

[Pintofbest]

DonkeyApple said:

So does everyone don’t they? It’s been in the reports that it’s the JE Zulu product fundamentally hasn’t it?

Which is a nice bit of history to have the company back involved with the factory.

Which was over 150k a few years ago! (just googled it as never heard of it before)

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/land-rover/de...

[DonkeyApple]

Dr Interceptor said:

TooMany2cvs said:

It's only £150k, y'know.

Yup... And if you'd like a zero miles Jensen Interceptor by Cropredy, that starts at £248,000 - not sure if that includes VAT.

Daft comparison I know, but if you have the cash, and want one, why not? Same with the LR V8.

My LSE that was restored and then converted to an Overfinch had bills for north of £100k back in 2004.

My current 2 door once finished isn’t going to have any change from the same sort of amount.

The JE Zulu when I looked at buying one was getting towards £100k a few years ago and a conversation with Charlie at Twisted discussing something similar gave a number well northbof £100k.

Buying back a Defender at market, using JE’s expertise (plus their profit), restoring the car, repainting?, sales and marketing etc etc the shocking truth is that £150k is cheap and probably only remotely possible because of the fact they’re making 100+ of them rather than 1 at a time.

[JoshMay]

‘150 grand for a second hand Land Rover’ I couldn’t agree more!

This is such an uninteresting car, looks/performance/purpose - nothing gets my juices flowing and I’m huge Landie fan!

To hear it costs that much and that there are people excited about this says to me that there a lot of mugs out there.

[hothatchery7]

DonkeyApple said:

So does everyone don’t they? It’s been in the reports that it’s the JE Zulu product fundamentally hasn’t it?

Which is a nice bit of history to have the company back involved with the factory.

I totally get where your coming from but the first 3 cars were developed and built in cumbria. Reiger suspension, AP brakes, upgraded bushes all round and the standard defender final drive. Which is the main reason for the low top speed stated in the article.

[Brynjaminjones]

TooMany2cvs said:

It's very simple.

AWD means all wheels driven. There may be 4, 6 or 8 of them in total.
4wd means four wheels driven. This may be out of a total 4, 6 or 8.
4x4 means four wheels, four driven.

Not looking to get into a debate, but in the context of a four wheeled vehicle, every source I can find online disagrees with that.