RE: Geneva 2018: The PH Verdict
Discussion
wab172uk said:
Looking at most of the cars being highlighted on here, the world must have plenty of money, as very few cars come in under £100k
Mercury00 said:
Any cars for normal people?
DiscoColin said:
Basically, unless you are a plutocrat or a journalist then it has all gotten a bit irrelevant hasn't it?
PSB1967 said:
this feature would be better published in Tatler or other print aimed at the wealthy.
+1Some uncommon vehicles and some interesting features, but a bit Fabergé egg in character.
As the author himself notes: All the more reason to adore Mustang for being there. And for firing up the engine! Anyone for an ale? Cans, naturally.
I had a sit in both the Alpine variants, and loved the lighter, airy cabin of the white Pure edition. They tell me they expect to sell a few cars this week. I also thought the Rimac was stunning, extraordinary performance, and they tell me they are working with Astron Martin, Jaguar and Renault on other projects. Inside the Rimac smells amazing with all that soft leather. The Morgan EV3 made me smile a lot, and it has brass switches and a bakelite gear selector, which is pretty retro-funky. I really liked the vibe of the Up! GTI, the only car there I could imagine being able to afford in the near future.
robm3 said:
I think you, and quite a few other PH'ers, misunderstand the Geneva Show, this IS the show where Manufacturers roll out the big hitters, only if a mainstream model is hugely significant, will they show it there.
Localised, Country, Motor Shows are where mainstream models are show.
Think Pebble Beach Auctions vs BCA Auctions....
In truth, I think the market has changed beyond recognition which is perhaps making Geneva more and more irrelevant in some ways. In 1961, Jag launched the E Type for around 2k pounds, in today’s money around 45k. So a race derived, top of the line 2 seater with bespoke chassis and detuned race engine could be had for around 4x the average National salary (around 500 quid I believe). Localised, Country, Motor Shows are where mainstream models are show.
Think Pebble Beach Auctions vs BCA Auctions....
Cars above the E barely existed back then, whereas today there are literally dozens.
Jellinek said:
In truth, I think the market has changed beyond recognition which is perhaps making Geneva more and more irrelevant in some ways. In 1961, Jag launched the E Type for around 2k pounds, in today’s money around 45k. So a race derived, top of the line 2 seater with bespoke chassis and detuned race engine could be had for around 4x the average National salary (around 500 quid I believe).
Cars above the E barely existed back then, whereas today there are literally dozens.
This is great observation. Essentially we're not the same people any longer.Cars above the E barely existed back then, whereas today there are literally dozens.
It's not just that a greater percentage of the population is rich (relative to past generations). It's also that the rest of us benefit (generally if also inconsistently) from favourable maths on things like labour and innovation.
Today a "middle-class vehicle" offers performance / content / safety that exceeds that of anything available in the past, at any price. And, nowadays, most of this performance / content / safety differs from that in an "upper-class vehicle" only in degree and not in kind.
Tim16V said:
Strange dig at Alfa Romeo. They've been rather busy over the last 12 months in case you hadn't noticed.
By killing off the MiTo & 4C, scrapping the 5 year plan and launching another 5 year plan “in a few months time”?No new cars there, parts bins have been raided & they’ve had a quick blow over with primer.
Yes, very busy.....lmao.
If the good folks of PH are looking for a vehicle that's more of a Car of The People amongst the glitz of Geneva, how about a leccy powered Moke?
Had a good day there today. After the quick 1hr15m flight and inexpensive £12 entry fee I chose not to spend my time searching out another FWD hatchback from a mainstream manufacturer, and generally found myself drawn to the more esoteric or flamboyant creations.
I'll save the schelping round humdrum stuff for another day and another dealership packed industrial estate. I expect PH would like to see the results of that?
Had a good day there today. After the quick 1hr15m flight and inexpensive £12 entry fee I chose not to spend my time searching out another FWD hatchback from a mainstream manufacturer, and generally found myself drawn to the more esoteric or flamboyant creations.
I'll save the schelping round humdrum stuff for another day and another dealership packed industrial estate. I expect PH would like to see the results of that?
Cold said:
If the good folks of PH are looking for a vehicle that's more of a Car of The People amongst the glitz of Geneva, how about a leccy powered Moke?
Had a good day there today. After the quick 1hr15m flight and inexpensive £12 entry fee I chose not to spend my time searching out another FWD hatchback from a mainstream manufacturer, and generally found myself drawn to the more esoteric or flamboyant creations.
I'll save the schelping round humdrum stuff for another day and another dealership packed industrial estate. I expect PH would like to see the results of that?
THIS is what I’d like to see covered by PH. Some of the unusual stuff in Europe’s largest motor show. A bit of background colour.Had a good day there today. After the quick 1hr15m flight and inexpensive £12 entry fee I chose not to spend my time searching out another FWD hatchback from a mainstream manufacturer, and generally found myself drawn to the more esoteric or flamboyant creations.
I'll save the schelping round humdrum stuff for another day and another dealership packed industrial estate. I expect PH would like to see the results of that?
I seriously doubt anyone from PH goes to any motor show but they just write some puff next to stock PR images.
Which in a way is fair enough. Haymarket exist to sell magazines and so PH cannot tread on toes of the money generators. But some coverage of the backwaters of the Geneva show would be interesting without cramping the style of the mags. It would compliment them if anything.
I really hate the way all electric cars are promoted as ‘all clean‘. What utter nonsense. The electricity required to charge the batteries creates huge amounts of pollution. Let’s also not forget the pollution created in the manufacturing of the batteries in these cars.
Hybrid technology is no doubt here to stay but please let’s be realistic about the facts. We are just moving the problem from the combustion engine in the car to somewhere else
Hybrid technology is no doubt here to stay but please let’s be realistic about the facts. We are just moving the problem from the combustion engine in the car to somewhere else
kellydk said:
I really hate the way all electric cars are promoted as ‘all clean‘. What utter nonsense. The electricity required to charge the batteries creates huge amounts of pollution. Let’s also not forget the pollution created in the manufacturing of the batteries in these cars.
Hybrid technology is no doubt here to stay but please let’s be realistic about the facts. We are just moving the problem from the combustion engine in the car to somewhere else
lol @ 'facts'Hybrid technology is no doubt here to stay but please let’s be realistic about the facts. We are just moving the problem from the combustion engine in the car to somewhere else
The main reason I, and I reckon most other car nuts, go to Geneva is to see all these amazing cars. Nowhere else do you see Pagani, Koenigsegg, Bugatti, Touring Superleggera, Sbarro, Italdesign, Ruf, Zagato (sometimes) Rimac etc etc under one roof. You literally walk past the Porsche stand without a second glance there's so much more amazing stuff on display
I totally agree that only 0.001% of the population can afford these things, but that's totally missing the point of the Geneva Motor Show. If all that were there were cars people can afford (VW, Kia, BMW etc etc) then hardly anyone would go. Plus they're always there anyway and always use Geneva as the main springboard for launching their new "mundane" cars.
It's a fantastic showcase for the high-end car manufacturers like the above... and they go because they always sell cars whilst they're at Geneva. Pagani, for example, sold about 8 new Huayra's directly on the Stand at Geneva when it was launched. It's a vital shopping window for these companies, I doubt many would survive without it. Long may it continue!
I totally agree that only 0.001% of the population can afford these things, but that's totally missing the point of the Geneva Motor Show. If all that were there were cars people can afford (VW, Kia, BMW etc etc) then hardly anyone would go. Plus they're always there anyway and always use Geneva as the main springboard for launching their new "mundane" cars.
It's a fantastic showcase for the high-end car manufacturers like the above... and they go because they always sell cars whilst they're at Geneva. Pagani, for example, sold about 8 new Huayra's directly on the Stand at Geneva when it was launched. It's a vital shopping window for these companies, I doubt many would survive without it. Long may it continue!
kellydk said:
I really hate the way all electric cars are promoted as ‘all clean‘. What utter nonsense. The electricity required to charge the batteries creates huge amounts of pollution. Let’s also not forget the pollution created in the manufacturing of the batteries in these cars.
Hybrid technology is no doubt here to stay but please let’s be realistic about the facts. We are just moving the problem from the combustion engine in the car to somewhere else
Erm - that is the point. Electric cars aren't about saving the whole planet : they are about moving the pollution away from where the people are concentrated so that they don't have to breathe it. As economies of scale drive down the costs of things like domestic solar, they also have a fringe benefit of reducing demand for fossil fuels and also as adoption increases there is huge potential for recycling of battery elements when volumes reach mass market levels too. Ergo - as volumes grow, the relative end-to-end unit environmental overhead will consequently fall drastically and while all that the early adopters are saving is their children's lungs: electric cars categorically have A future irrespective of whether or not they are THE future.Hybrid technology is no doubt here to stay but please let’s be realistic about the facts. We are just moving the problem from the combustion engine in the car to somewhere else
I am sure that all of this has been thoroughly done to death in other threads before though, so it really doesn't need to be dragged any further into this one.
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