Why don't more performance car enthusiasts ride motorbikes?
Discussion
TurboHatchback said:
Trying to bend statistics to suit your argument is all very well but the simple face is that there are some incidents that even the best defensive drivers/riders around cannot avoid, these accidents are more likely to happen to bikers as they are less visible and the consequences are vastly more severe. A lot of non-bikers simply don't expect and look for bikes properly and consequently do some moronic things.
Riding down a straight empty road at a conservative speed, there is a car waiting to pull out of a side turning, they're there for some time so you assume they've seen you. Ten feet before you pass them and despite them looking straight at you they pull out into your path. This happened to my uncle and he is now held together by metalwork and semi-disabled as a result. In a car firstly it probably wouldn't have happened at all and secondly it would have been just some whiplash, bruising and an insurance claim. There was no possibility of avoiding it, no action or 'skills' that could have stopped it.
This happened to me on a roundabout. Id made eye contact with him (I thought) and had been visible for so long, that by time I was a couple of feet away from him, I assumed that all was well and had moved onto looking past him. How wrong I was. Fortunately, it wasnt too bad; a couple of broken bones. Could have been a lot worse.Riding down a straight empty road at a conservative speed, there is a car waiting to pull out of a side turning, they're there for some time so you assume they've seen you. Ten feet before you pass them and despite them looking straight at you they pull out into your path. This happened to my uncle and he is now held together by metalwork and semi-disabled as a result. In a car firstly it probably wouldn't have happened at all and secondly it would have been just some whiplash, bruising and an insurance claim. There was no possibility of avoiding it, no action or 'skills' that could have stopped it.
TameRacingDriver said:
This thread is hilarious. Bikers claiming that people are pathetic, or lesser humans...
I doubt any bikers did say that, but I'll happily say it as a non biker.With a bit of an extension, if you're the type of person who can ride super fast and aggressive, Isle of Man TT style, then IMO you are a different type of human. I know there is much more to life but f
k, I feel like such a bh for knowing I don't have the balls for all that stuff.Esceptico said:
A good example is the "stranger danger" brainwashing we had as children (at least if you brought up in the 70s and 80s - anyone remember Charlie and his cat?) where it was drummed into us that strangers wanted to do bad things to us, whereas in fact almost all child abuse is perpetuated by family and friends (or former TV/radio stars!)
It's not gone away. Fear of violent crime and child molesters is still at epidemic level.You are right. People are not good assessing risk beyond what is immediately in front of them. Statistics are broadly misunderstood, and bad interpretations are propagated by the news media.
DRCAGE said:
I doubt any bikers did say that, but I'll happily say it as a non biker.
With a bit of an extension, if you're the type of person who can ride super fast and aggressive, Isle of Man TT style, then IMO you are a different type of human. I know there is much more to life but fk, I feel like such a bh for knowing I don't have the balls for all that stuff.
You've got to break a few eggs to make an omelette.With a bit of an extension, if you're the type of person who can ride super fast and aggressive, Isle of Man TT style, then IMO you are a different type of human. I know there is much more to life but f
k, I feel like such a bh for knowing I don't have the balls for all that stuff.Biker's Nemesis said:
DRCAGE said:
I doubt any bikers did say that, but I'll happily say it as a non biker.
With a bit of an extension, if you're the type of person who can ride super fast and aggressive, Isle of Man TT style, then IMO you are a different type of human. I know there is much more to life but fk, I feel like such a bh for knowing I don't have the balls for all that stuff.
You've got to break a few eggs to make an omelette.With a bit of an extension, if you're the type of person who can ride super fast and aggressive, Isle of Man TT style, then IMO you are a different type of human. I know there is much more to life but f
k, I feel like such a bh for knowing I don't have the balls for all that stuff.Cars only have 1 licence vs about 10 for bikes.
You will fall out with anybody who cares about you.
£2000 to be the fastest thing on the road is very appealing but I know the risks it comes with, the insane numbers these things can do is hard to comprehend.
Even if I survive riding something that does 100mph in the blink of an eye you've still got to contend with somebody pulling out on you.
You will fall out with anybody who cares about you.
£2000 to be the fastest thing on the road is very appealing but I know the risks it comes with, the insane numbers these things can do is hard to comprehend.
Even if I survive riding something that does 100mph in the blink of an eye you've still got to contend with somebody pulling out on you.
DRCAGE said:
I doubt any bikers did say that, but I'll happily say it as a non biker.
With a bit of an extension, if you're the type of person who can ride super fast and aggressive, Isle of Man TT style, then IMO you are a different type of human. I know there is much more to life but fk, I feel like such a bh for knowing I don't have the balls for all that stuff.
To be fair I’m an experienced motorcyclist, I’ve done a lot of additional training and I’m comfortable on country roads at speed.With a bit of an extension, if you're the type of person who can ride super fast and aggressive, Isle of Man TT style, then IMO you are a different type of human. I know there is much more to life but f
k, I feel like such a bh for knowing I don't have the balls for all that stuff.TT riders are a completely different league, I too feel like a b
h when watching the on bike stuff! Esceptico said:
RobM77 said:
I can assure you I'm fairly well qualified and experienced in that area 
You seem to understand the difference between relative and absolute risk, but you appear to be making a mistake in how you interpret that. Yes, the absolute risk remains low, despite the difference in relative risk, you're right about that bit, but if the absolute risk crosses into a threshold where someone deems it 'too dangerous' for them, then it does and no amount of your 'man maths' can change that. I can assure you that people do not 'misunderstand the risk'. I don't have time to look up the figures, but let's liken getting a motorbike to driving around from this point forwards in your car without your seatbelt on. I'm not sure I've ever actually 'used' a seatbelt, but I wouldn't do it because it would be too risky.
If we ignore wars and 1960s GP racing etc, then with most accident statistics we're talking about small risks, but that doesn't mean they're insignificant. If I drunk 50 units of alcohol a week or smoked a pack of cigarettes a week, it's probably more likely than not that I'd be fine and die in old age like I would have done anyway, but I still wouldn't do it, because I understand the risks and don't feel the risk of complications is acceptable.
I think we finally agree. You seem to understand the difference between relative and absolute risk, but you appear to be making a mistake in how you interpret that. Yes, the absolute risk remains low, despite the difference in relative risk, you're right about that bit, but if the absolute risk crosses into a threshold where someone deems it 'too dangerous' for them, then it does and no amount of your 'man maths' can change that. I can assure you that people do not 'misunderstand the risk'. I don't have time to look up the figures, but let's liken getting a motorbike to driving around from this point forwards in your car without your seatbelt on. I'm not sure I've ever actually 'used' a seatbelt, but I wouldn't do it because it would be too risky.If we ignore wars and 1960s GP racing etc, then with most accident statistics we're talking about small risks, but that doesn't mean they're insignificant. If I drunk 50 units of alcohol a week or smoked a pack of cigarettes a week, it's probably more likely than not that I'd be fine and die in old age like I would have done anyway, but I still wouldn't do it, because I understand the risks and don't feel the risk of complications is acceptable.
The absolute risk is low (i.e. objectively not extremely dangerous). However, the risk is higher than driving a car and for some people the additional risk crosses their personal threshold of what they are prepared to accept.
I am still unconvinced that people are good at evaluating risk and there are many cases where perceived risk and actual risk diverge quite substantially, with people often underestimating more mundane risks and overestimating the dramatic. A good example is the "stranger danger" brainwashing we had as children (at least if you brought up in the 70s and 80s - anyone remember Charlie and his cat?) where it was drummed into us that strangers wanted to do bad things to us, whereas in fact almost all child abuse is perpetuated by family and friends (or former TV/radio stars!)
1430 said:
Cars only have 1 licence vs about 10 for bikes.
You will fall out with anybody who cares about you.
£2000 to be the fastest thing on the road is very appealing but I know the risks it comes with, the insane numbers these things can do is hard to comprehend.
Even if I survive riding something that does 100mph in the blink of an eye you've still got to contend with somebody pulling out on you.
I took two tests, CBT and the main testYou will fall out with anybody who cares about you.
£2000 to be the fastest thing on the road is very appealing but I know the risks it comes with, the insane numbers these things can do is hard to comprehend.
Even if I survive riding something that does 100mph in the blink of an eye you've still got to contend with somebody pulling out on you.
Nobody has fallen out with me, quite the opposite, I’ve met some great people that I would never have met socially without bikes
It’s nearer £20000 now, but that’s just me
If you can’t handle a vehicle doing 100mph quickly, then you need to hand in your PH card.
Muppets pull out on cars too, they also don’t always pull out on bikes.
I’m back to biking after a ten year break .
Kids were young and I either never got a chance to ride or when I did it was a Sunday lunchtime when every st driver is out on the roads and don’t look for bikes . I had a couple of near misses.
I went though the full cycle of fast cars and did lots of track days, then my son decided at 16 he wanted to start riding . That got me back looking at bikes .
I figured I’d gotten bored with track days and cars and I would be more comfortable if I was riding with him so I started looking again .
Sports bikes just weren’t for me anymore and he’s going to be stuck at 28mph anyway so at times I’ll need something I can pootle on.
Anyhow I bought a 900RS Kawasaki and had it pained in Akashi and I couldn’t be happier to be back biking . I’m wary of all road users which I am trying to instill in my son but we are riding on the coast in a quiet sea side location so a good place for him to learn and for me to re train essentially .
Very pleased to be back biking again and it’s not as expensive as running fast cars !!
Kids were young and I either never got a chance to ride or when I did it was a Sunday lunchtime when every s
t driver is out on the roads and don’t look for bikes . I had a couple of near misses. I went though the full cycle of fast cars and did lots of track days, then my son decided at 16 he wanted to start riding . That got me back looking at bikes .
I figured I’d gotten bored with track days and cars and I would be more comfortable if I was riding with him so I started looking again .
Sports bikes just weren’t for me anymore and he’s going to be stuck at 28mph anyway so at times I’ll need something I can pootle on.
Anyhow I bought a 900RS Kawasaki and had it pained in Akashi and I couldn’t be happier to be back biking . I’m wary of all road users which I am trying to instill in my son but we are riding on the coast in a quiet sea side location so a good place for him to learn and for me to re train essentially .
Very pleased to be back biking again and it’s not as expensive as running fast cars !!
Gad-Westy said:
I was very careful to say that my own assessment of the risk puts it in the too dangerous camp for me, not for everyone. And actually I really base my own decision on very anecdotal stuff more than the figures.
I know what you're getting at with the parallel to draw between choosing to drive a performance car meaning I have accepted a heightened risk. I agree with that. I have accepted a heightened risk but I have accepted that level of risk to pursue my interest but I have also decided that riding bikes recreationally would carry a higher risk again and I have rationalised that I'm not happy with that level. For what it's worth I can see that a bike must by it's very nature deliver a heightened level of thrill than anything a car is likely to serve up and for considerably less outlay so it's not a decision I've taken blindly, I'm sure I'd enjoy riding very much.
100% agree with you.I know what you're getting at with the parallel to draw between choosing to drive a performance car meaning I have accepted a heightened risk. I agree with that. I have accepted a heightened risk but I have accepted that level of risk to pursue my interest but I have also decided that riding bikes recreationally would carry a higher risk again and I have rationalised that I'm not happy with that level. For what it's worth I can see that a bike must by it's very nature deliver a heightened level of thrill than anything a car is likely to serve up and for considerably less outlay so it's not a decision I've taken blindly, I'm sure I'd enjoy riding very much.
I am sure I would enjoy biking greatly. I love the look and sound if many bikes. A pal has , amongst other bikes, a Ducati Panigale and it is a thing of beauty, so much so that if I could I would buy one and put it on a plinth just to look at !
But ......for me given my own personal circumstances biking feels like it offers too much risk.
Brooking10 said:
Gad-Westy said:
I was very careful to say that my own assessment of the risk puts it in the too dangerous camp for me, not for everyone. And actually I really base my own decision on very anecdotal stuff more than the figures.
I know what you're getting at with the parallel to draw between choosing to drive a performance car meaning I have accepted a heightened risk. I agree with that. I have accepted a heightened risk but I have accepted that level of risk to pursue my interest but I have also decided that riding bikes recreationally would carry a higher risk again and I have rationalised that I'm not happy with that level. For what it's worth I can see that a bike must by it's very nature deliver a heightened level of thrill than anything a car is likely to serve up and for considerably less outlay so it's not a decision I've taken blindly, I'm sure I'd enjoy riding very much.
100% agree with you.I know what you're getting at with the parallel to draw between choosing to drive a performance car meaning I have accepted a heightened risk. I agree with that. I have accepted a heightened risk but I have accepted that level of risk to pursue my interest but I have also decided that riding bikes recreationally would carry a higher risk again and I have rationalised that I'm not happy with that level. For what it's worth I can see that a bike must by it's very nature deliver a heightened level of thrill than anything a car is likely to serve up and for considerably less outlay so it's not a decision I've taken blindly, I'm sure I'd enjoy riding very much.
I am sure I would enjoy biking greatly. I love the look and sound if many bikes. A pal has , amongst other bikes, a Ducati Panigale and it is a thing of beauty, so much so that if I could I would buy one and put it on a plinth just to look at !
But ......for me given my own personal circumstances biking feels like it offers too much risk.
Biker's Nemesis said:
Really?
Did you hang about with BMW or Ducati riders?
Nope. Worse.Did you hang about with BMW or Ducati riders?
Motovloggers.
Everything was a drama, everything was filmed. I don't mind people slagging me off behind my back, but they were doing it behind my back, and then sticking it on youtube. It wouldn't put me off riding again, but it would put me off putting myself out there quite as much if I did start riding.
Put it this way. They felt like my closest mates at one point, but when I first sold my bike to buy a car, I stopped hearing from them. When I bought another bike about 18 months later, they were suddenly interested again.
Steve91 said:
Nope. Worse.
Motovloggers.
Everything was a drama, everything was filmed. I don't mind people slagging me off behind my back, but they were doing it behind my back, and then sticking it on youtube. It wouldn't put me off riding again, but it would put me off putting myself out there quite as much if I did start riding.
Put it this way. They felt like my closest mates at one point, but when I first sold my bike to buy a car, I stopped hearing from them. When I bought another bike about 18 months later, they were suddenly interested again.
I'd like to think they're not representative of the wider community. Most of us are pretty nice. Even Bikers Nemesis has his moments.Motovloggers.
Everything was a drama, everything was filmed. I don't mind people slagging me off behind my back, but they were doing it behind my back, and then sticking it on youtube. It wouldn't put me off riding again, but it would put me off putting myself out there quite as much if I did start riding.
Put it this way. They felt like my closest mates at one point, but when I first sold my bike to buy a car, I stopped hearing from them. When I bought another bike about 18 months later, they were suddenly interested again.
Steve91 said:
I also found the motorcycle 'community' to be one of the most toxic and snobbish groups there is.
I'm a biker, but don't ride or hang about with others. One of the things I love about biking is being out there on the road, just me and the bike, could never get the whole 'riding in a gang' thing. But saying that, I find the 'motorcycle community' to be the most friendly, non- judgemental, helpful bunch of guys(and girls) I've ever come across.Don't know who you've been hanging with but it wasn't any of the bikers I've known.
brrapp said:
I'm a biker, but don't ride or hang about with others. One of the things I love about biking is being out there on the road, just me and the bike, could never get the whole 'riding in a gang' thing. But saying that, I find the 'motorcycle community' to be the most friendly, non- judgemental, helpful bunch of guys(and girls) I've ever come across.
Don't know who you've been hanging with but it wasn't any of the bikers I've known.
Yeah me too, far nicer than some of the car community. Don't know who you've been hanging with but it wasn't any of the bikers I've known.
Take a look at the Porsche forum its non stop spitefulness and arguing.
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