Slowest "Performance" Brand Car ?

[MC Bodge]

Nanook said:

I had no idea that was the engine used in that car.

A friend has an A220d I seem to end up driving regularly, and it's a perfectly acceptable little car, but the Kangoo van i drive from time to time has that 1.5d engine

and the Dacia Duster?

[Chestrockwell]

kambites said:

That's still 10% heavier than a comparable Golf, for example, which is a far more practical car. I've nothing against the 1-series, but it's far from light for its sector. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if it's the heaviest C-segment hatchback?

My mother had 2 120ds back to back over 3 years, first one was a 2012 sport and second was the 2015 m sport LCI. I am very familiar with both and I have driven a MK7 GTI, GTD and the MK7.5 GTI, all are aren’t a patch on the 1 series, the BMW is heavier but it would be for the high quality materials used in them opposed to the flimsy feeling Golfs.

This may ruffle some feathers but this is how I feel.

BMW 1 series driver - Enjoys driving and has an interest in cars. There’s no way someone who hasn’t got an interest in cars would pick a 1 series over a Golf or A class.

Golf driver - Follows what everyone says, everybody says they’re good so they must be when they’re really not. Crap cars crap quality made by a brand who got caught lying about emissions and a brand renowned for the engine management light, who knows what else they’ve gotten away with.

Mercedes A class driver - Poser, bought the badge only, particularly white AMG lines, premium badge but st under pinnings, Merc prices for a Renault engine, Jesus.

Audi A3 - never driven one or been in one so don’t have anything to say.

[Fun Bus]

neil1jnr said:

Easy

A180 'AMG'

Not even a slight change in name like 'M-Sport' or 'S-Line' to differentiate from the full fat version.

"I drive an A-class AMG"...yet it has a 1.5 diesel engine from Renault.

The trim line is "AMG Line" - not just AMG. The car has AMG on the wheels. And the carpet mats.

[daemon]

neil1jnr said:

Easy

A180 'AMG'

Not even a slight change in name like 'M-Sport' or 'S-Line' to differentiate from the full fat version.

"I drive an A-class AMG"...yet it has a 1.5 diesel engine from Renault.

The model is actually a180 Amg Line

It's badged AMG in much the same way as M Sport BMWs get M badges

[culpz]

Chestrockwell said:

My mother had 2 120ds back to back over 3 years, first one was a 2012 sport and second was the 2015 m sport LCI. I am very familiar with both and I have driven a MK7 GTI, GTD and the MK7.5 GTI, all are aren’t a patch on the 1 series, the BMW is heavier but it would be for the high quality materials used in them opposed to the flimsy feeling Golfs.

This may ruffle some feathers but this is how I feel.

BMW 1 series driver - Enjoys driving and has an interest in cars. There’s no way someone who hasn’t got an interest in cars would pick a 1 series over a Golf or A class.

Golf driver - Follows what everyone says, everybody says they’re good so they must be when they’re really not. Crap cars crap quality made by a brand who got caught lying about emissions and a brand renowned for the engine management light, who knows what else they’ve gotten away with.

Mercedes A class driver - Poser, bought the badge only, particularly white AMG lines, premium badge but st under pinnings, Merc prices for a Renault engine, Jesus.

Audi A3 - never driven one or been in one so don’t have anything to say.

So many assumptions linked in with personal preference, so little time.

I had a BMW 118i M Sport as a hire car for about 2-3 weeks. It was one of the worst new cars i've had the (dis)pleasure of driving. I genuinely wish i'd picked the other option, which was an Audi A3 2.0 TDI Sport. I just wanted to try the Beemer and see what it was like. It didn't take long to regret it.

[neil1jnr]

Fun Bus said:

neil1jnr said:

Easy

A180 'AMG'

Not even a slight change in name like 'M-Sport' or 'S-Line' to differentiate from the full fat version.

"I drive an A-class AMG"...yet it has a 1.5 diesel engine from Renault.

The trim line is "AMG Line" - not just AMG. The car has AMG on the wheels. And the carpet mats.

daemon said:

The model is actually a180 Amg Line

It's badged AMG in much the same way as M Sport BMWs get M badges

I understand that, sorry I didn't make myself clear. I mean, even non car people say S-line or M-Sport, but the few I have met with the Mercs say 'AMG' when it is not, also I believe that engine must be worse than any in a 1 series or A3?

[Chestrockwell]

culpz said:

So many assumptions linked in with personal preference, so little time.

I had a BMW 118i M Sport as a hire car for about 2-3 weeks. It was one of the worst new cars i've had the (dis)pleasure of driving. I genuinely wish i'd picked the other option, which was an Audi A3 2.0 TDI Sport. I just wanted to try the Beemer and see what it was like. It didn't take long to regret it.

Thing is, a 3cyl version of any of its competitors would have also been shocking, especially in the sportier trim making the car over tyred for the wheezy engine.

If you had picked a 118d/20d, I am positive you wouldn’t have felt that way. I’ve had a few loan cars from BMW and the 118i was definitely the worst. You can call me a BMW fan boy but I think it’s perfectly warranted. They’re just so good!

[RobM77]

culpz said:

Chestrockwell said:

My mother had 2 120ds back to back over 3 years, first one was a 2012 sport and second was the 2015 m sport LCI. I am very familiar with both and I have driven a MK7 GTI, GTD and the MK7.5 GTI, all are aren’t a patch on the 1 series, the BMW is heavier but it would be for the high quality materials used in them opposed to the flimsy feeling Golfs.

This may ruffle some feathers but this is how I feel.

BMW 1 series driver - Enjoys driving and has an interest in cars. There’s no way someone who hasn’t got an interest in cars would pick a 1 series over a Golf or A class.

Golf driver - Follows what everyone says, everybody says they’re good so they must be when they’re really not. Crap cars crap quality made by a brand who got caught lying about emissions and a brand renowned for the engine management light, who knows what else they’ve gotten away with.

Mercedes A class driver - Poser, bought the badge only, particularly white AMG lines, premium badge but st under pinnings, Merc prices for a Renault engine, Jesus.

Audi A3 - never driven one or been in one so don’t have anything to say.

So many assumptions linked in with personal preference, so little time.

I had a BMW 118i M Sport as a hire car for about 2-3 weeks. It was one of the worst new cars i've had the (dis)pleasure of driving. I genuinely wish i'd picked the other option, which was an Audi A3 2.0 TDI Sport. I just wanted to try the Beemer and see what it was like. It didn't take long to regret it.

Everyone has different tastes I guess. I've driven the same cars as the poster above and came to the same conclusions. I've also done the same in the sector above (3 series, A4 etc). For sure, the 1 series' Achilles heel for Joe Public was always the limited cabin space given by the RWD layout, but putting pushchairs and suitcases aside, in terms of the build quality, fuel economy, comfort and how they drive I found them superior to the VAG offerings that I've tried. This isn't particularly aimed at you, but the problem on Pistonheads is that things like that don't really matter to the vast majority of posters - they only really care about who buys a car (is it a "rep's car" and "enthusiasts car" etc), what its image is, straight line performance and how rare/common it is, rather than what the car is actually like to drive and own.

[daemon]

neil1jnr said:

I understand that, sorry I didn't make myself clear. I mean, even non car people say S-line or M-Sport, but the few I have met with the Mercs say 'AMG' when it is not, also I believe that engine must be worse than any in a 1 series or A3?

Yes. Wholly with you on that

[macmachugh]

Who really cares. I have a V12 Mercedes and a GT40. I am constantly challenged at the lights. They know and I know so I let 'em go.
The best example was a noisy, lowered Clio, first away at green, not enough time to brake, result, shorter, noisy lowered Clio.

[Ares]

neil1jnr said:

Easy

A180 'AMG'

Not even a slight change in name like 'M-Sport' or 'S-Line' to differentiate from the full fat version.

"I drive an A-class AMG"...yet it has a 1.5 diesel engine from Renault.

"A180 AMG-line"

Subtle difference.

[culpz]

Chestrockwell said:

culpz said:

So many assumptions linked in with personal preference, so little time.

I had a BMW 118i M Sport as a hire car for about 2-3 weeks. It was one of the worst new cars i've had the (dis)pleasure of driving. I genuinely wish i'd picked the other option, which was an Audi A3 2.0 TDI Sport. I just wanted to try the Beemer and see what it was like. It didn't take long to regret it.

Thing is, a 3cyl version of any of its competitors would have also been shocking, especially in the sportier trim making the car over tyred for the wheezy engine.

If you had picked a 118d/20d, I am positive you wouldn’t have felt that way. I’ve had a few loan cars from BMW and the 118i was definitely the worst. You can call me a BMW fan boy but I think it’s perfectly warranted. They’re just so good!

I bet i wouldn't. The engine wasn't even the worst bit. The interior felt dated and the controls weren't intuitive, the manual gearbox was notchy and unpleasant, it didn't feel rear-driven, the stop/start system was really rough and intrusive and it was pretty crap on fuel for the performance on offer.

Apart from the last couple of points, a 118d/120d would be exactly the same experience, for the most part. I've also driven a 320d and didn't see the fuss. IMO, they're really not that good at all.

[Fast Bug]

I've done a fair few miles since this thread has popped up, and I've been looking out at A Class AMG Line models. Not a single one had an AMG badge on it, the only A Class with an AMG badge I saw was an A45

[Wills2]

culpz said:

I bet i wouldn't. The engine wasn't even the worst bit. The interior felt dated and the controls weren't intuitive, the manual gearbox was notchy and unpleasant, it didn't feel rear-driven, the stop/start system was really rough and intrusive and it was pretty crap on fuel for the performance on offer.

Apart from the last couple of points, a 118d/120d would be exactly the same experience, for the most part. I've also driven a 320d and didn't see the fuss. IMO, they're really not that good at all.

But then when the competition is diesel A3s and A4s they only have to be bearable to get sales.

[Ares]

culpz said:

I bet i wouldn't. The engine wasn't even the worst bit. The interior felt dated and the controls weren't intuitive, the manual gearbox was notchy and unpleasant, it didn't feel rear-driven, the stop/start system was really rough and intrusive and it was pretty crap on fuel for the performance on offer.

Apart from the last couple of points, a 118d/120d would be exactly the same experience, for the most part. I've also driven a 320d and didn't see the fuss. IMO, they're really not that good at all.

Mrs Ares used to have a 118i Msport (and wants another, or an A-Class AMG-line). It's not great, but if that's the worst car you've ever driven, then you must have only ever driven some very very nice cars. <checks garage, sniggers>

If it was a last-gen 118i it had the 2.0 engine, which is good, not great, but good, plenty of torque, and enough power to cope. If it was the current 118i then it has the 1.5 turbo unit. It's a typical small capacity turbo, but then you're used to that with a 1.4l Audi A4.

Interior will be subjective, if you don't like BMW interiors, you won't like them. I think the same way about Audi interior, bland and fussy. The 1-series is, again, good. Not brilliant, but good. The controls are very intuitive - the iDrive is so ground breaking, most others have tried to copy, and still not matched it. The gearbox is a manual....they ZF8 works a lot better, but some people still like a manual. it's no worse than any other similar class manual gearbox, but if you like a Japanese style 'zero-weighted' gearbox, then you'll hate the BMW.

If it didn't feel rear wheel drive, then that's your failure, not the car. Not quite sure how a stop/start system can feel rough, but they're all intriusive by their nature....It stops, it starts. They're all horrid, and most of us turn them off anyway.

Ditto, the 320d is no supercar, no M3, no 400bhp Exec Saloon. But it is good. It's a diesel and thus will receive the wrath of satan from diesel haters, but in its market, it's bloody good. Just look at any review of them. Even better, watch Chris Harris's youtube video of him driving one to Germany.

You drive an Audi, you are, for a variety of reasons, highly likely to dislike BMWs. It's fine, you're allowed to. You also had a hire car. It could well have been royally thrashed and abused.


FWIW. I find the 1.4l Audi A4 a dreadful car, I just don't like it. Compared to the 3-series it feels a class below to drive, partly as it's FWD rather than RWD, but it just feels bland with less feel than I get from office chair. My friend, who almost bought one when they were available for £160/mth...until he drove one, has bought a VW Polo instead, that's how much he disliked the vacuum engined A4.

.....but you like yours. And that's good.


Ditto the A3. It is better than the A4 IMO, but having driven it back-to-back against the 118i and the A180 (As mentioned, Mrs Ares is changing her car), it is a league behind both cars. It was so bad, after a 5min test drive, she turned it around and took it back.

....but we're all different, that's why we don't all drive the same cars.

[daemon]

Fast Bug said:

I've done a fair few miles since this thread has popped up, and I've been looking out at A Class AMG Line models. Not a single one had an AMG badge on it, the only A Class with an AMG badge I saw was an A45

Agreed. Though i think the point was that some people referred to their A180d AMG Line as "the AMG" or "the A Class AMG", or that you can pretty much get an A45 replica in an A180d or more pertinently to our own car, people say to us "oh my mother / younger sister / aunt drives one of those" when they see our A45. No. She doesnt.

[Ares]

daemon said:

Fast Bug said:

I've done a fair few miles since this thread has popped up, and I've been looking out at A Class AMG Line models. Not a single one had an AMG badge on it, the only A Class with an AMG badge I saw was an A45

Agreed. Though i think the point was that some people referred to their A180d AMG Line as "the AMG" or "the A Class AMG", or that you can pretty much get an A45 replica in an A180d or more pertinently to our own car, people say to us "oh my mother / younger sister / aunt drives one of those" when they see our A45. No. She doesnt.

That's perhaps just the people you know

[Fast Bug]

Ares said:

daemon said:

Fast Bug said:

I've done a fair few miles since this thread has popped up, and I've been looking out at A Class AMG Line models. Not a single one had an AMG badge on it, the only A Class with an AMG badge I saw was an A45

Agreed. Though i think the point was that some people referred to their A180d AMG Line as "the AMG" or "the A Class AMG", or that you can pretty much get an A45 replica in an A180d or more pertinently to our own car, people say to us "oh my mother / younger sister / aunt drives one of those" when they see our A45. No. She doesnt.

That's perhaps just the people you know

To be fair I've had PH users ask me for a quote on a diesel AMG C Class...

[Mike335i]

Ares said:

daemon said:

Fast Bug said:

I've done a fair few miles since this thread has popped up, and I've been looking out at A Class AMG Line models. Not a single one had an AMG badge on it, the only A Class with an AMG badge I saw was an A45

Agreed. Though i think the point was that some people referred to their A180d AMG Line as "the AMG" or "the A Class AMG", or that you can pretty much get an A45 replica in an A180d or more pertinently to our own car, people say to us "oh my mother / younger sister / aunt drives one of those" when they see our A45. No. She doesnt.

That's perhaps just the people you know

Almost all of them round my way have an AMG badge on the other side to the A180d badge. So much so that I thought that is how they leave the dealer.

[Chestrockwell]

Fast Bug said:

Ares said:

daemon said:

Fast Bug said:

I've done a fair few miles since this thread has popped up, and I've been looking out at A Class AMG Line models. Not a single one had an AMG badge on it, the only A Class with an AMG badge I saw was an A45

Agreed. Though i think the point was that some people referred to their A180d AMG Line as "the AMG" or "the A Class AMG", or that you can pretty much get an A45 replica in an A180d or more pertinently to our own car, people say to us "oh my mother / younger sister / aunt drives one of those" when they see our A45. No. She doesnt.

That's perhaps just the people you know

To be fair I've had PH users ask me for a quote on a diesel AMG C Class...

I bumped into an old friend when filling up once and she said ‘OMG You have an M BMW! What series is it?’ after seeing the small M badge on the wing.

It’s a weird one, some people have a problem with that but I don’t, I love the big blue calipers on my car with the M badge on them, it makes me feel special, and after paying a nigh on 30k for the car at a year old..... It damn well better make me feel special!