Why do we have to have low profile tyres to look "sporty"?

[ddom]

An M2 is barely useable anyway on the public roads, impressive as it is.

[MC Bodge]

nickfrog said:

MC Bodge said:

nickfrog said:

But sadly even nowadays, not many cars have the performance needed anyway.

What?

For me anyway but I am probably not as easily pleased as you. Subjective, each to their own etc...

We were talking about why cars have big wheels/low profile tyres or why people choose them. There was the suggestion that people (non enthusiasts) might choose exterior features as the cars nowadays often had enough performance.

Oddly, you appear to have taken it as affront to your manhood/womanhood/car enthusiasthood and are declaring that you are....well I'm not sure what you are declaring about yourself.

[nickfrog]

MC Bodge said:

nickfrog said:

MC Bodge said:

nickfrog said:

But sadly even nowadays, not many cars have the performance needed anyway.

What?

For me anyway but I am probably not as easily pleased as you. Subjective, each to their own etc...

We were talking about why cars have big wheels/low profile tyres or why people choose them. There was the suggestion that people (non enthusiasts) might choose exterior features as the cars nowadays often had enough performance.

Oddly, you appear to have taken it as affront to your manhood/womanhood/car enthusiasthood and are declaring that you are....well I'm not sure what you are declaring about yourself.

I admire your fertile imagination but you're probably judging me by your own standards of inadequacy.

I merely reacted to your view:

MC Bodge said:

Nowadays, almost all cars have all the internal features and performance needed anyway.

I totally disagree as I think few cars have the performance needed, but that's just me (and most people I know).

It's just my view, which is different to yours, nothing less, nothing more, it's not a big deal, live with it, no need to be defensive. I have no issues with you being happy with a Mondeo, they're brilliant cars.

Edited by nickfrog on Tuesday 5th January 10:31

[anonymous-user]

A friend of mine thinks I'm mad for wasting time on PH because "it's full of mithering tts".

I can't imagine where he got that impression?

[nickfrog]

ddom said:

An M2 is barely useable anyway on the public roads, impressive as it is.

I don't doubt that you have lived with one for you to form such an opinion and it would be good to know what issues you've encountered but FWIW mine is VERY useable on the public roads. Its track capabilities are the icing on the cake.

[MC Bodge]

nickfrog said:

I totally disagree as I think few cars have the performance needed, but that's just me (and most people I know).

It's just my view, which is different to yours, nothing less, nothing more, it's not a big deal, live with it, no need to be defensive. I have no issues with you being happy with a Mondeo, they're brilliant cars.

You are obviously not one of the people I was talking about, so why are you going on about your need for big performance?

[ddom]

nickfrog said:

I don't doubt that you have lived with one for you to form such an opinion and it would be good to know what issues you've encountered but FWIW mine is VERY useable on the public roads. Its track capabilities are the icing on the cake.

For me it had a couple of issues. The worst was the suspension. On the backroads it was just too harsh, this was the CS and an auto (not that it makes much difference). It piled on speed very rapidly but you cannot extend it, what 400HP car can you legally push into its window? I’d much prefer 100HP less with a decent ride. That’s what I define as ‘useable’. A highish kerb weight auto with track day focused rubber might be awesome on the track, and with the CS probably the best factory brakes I’ve used in a BMW, but on the road. Not for me. The same criticism can be levelled at a lot of modern cars in performance terms. The ride though, I just don’t understand BMW’s modern obsession with compromising their cars? I can’t imagine the non CS, if it’s worse it must be a handful? I guess everyone has different priorities.

[nickfrog]

MC Bodge said:

nickfrog said:

I totally disagree as I think few cars have the performance needed, but that's just me (and most people I know).

It's just my view, which is different to yours, nothing less, nothing more, it's not a big deal, live with it, no need to be defensive. I have no issues with you being happy with a Mondeo, they're brilliant cars.

You are obviously not one of the people I was talking about, so why are you going on about your need for big performance?

I don't need "big performance" - the word big is relative isn't it ?

Let's remember that PH was created by a bunch of TVR drivers so it shouldn't come as big surprise that some people want a little more performance and disagree with you when you state that almost all cars have all the performance needed.

It's just an opinion, like yours, live with it. Different people have different needs, that's all.

[nickfrog]

ddom said:

For me it had a couple of issues. The worst was the suspension. On the backroads it was just too harsh, this was the CS and an auto (not that it makes much difference). It piled on speed very rapidly but you cannot extend it, what 400HP car can you legally push into its window? I’d much prefer 100HP less with a decent ride. That’s what I define as ‘useable’. A highish kerb weight auto with track day focused rubber might be awesome on the track, and with the CS probably the best factory brakes I’ve used in a BMW, but on the road. Not for me. The same criticism can be levelled at a lot of modern cars in performance terms. The ride though, I just don’t understand BMW’s modern obsession with compromising their cars? I can’t imagine the non CS, if it’s worse it must be a handful? I guess everyone has different priorities.

If you were after a comfy ride then choosing a Club Sport for a test drive was never going to yield a good result.
I really like the ride in mine, in fact it's what surprised me the most, I was expecting worse. I had a longish drive from Sussex to Oulton Park last month and it was great. As for power, what 300HP car can you legally push into its window? None of the ones I have owned.

Edited by nickfrog on Tuesday 5th January 11:37

[MC Bodge]

nickfrog said:

It's just an opinion, like yours, live with it. Different people have different needs, that's all.

I'm not sure what you are going on about, but it's not what I was talking about.

[nickfrog]

MC Bodge said:

nickfrog said:

It's just an opinion, like yours, live with it. Different people have different needs, that's all.

I'm not sure what you are going on about, but it's not what I was talking about.

It's pretty simple, for your comvenience I even quoted you on the bit where I disagreed. Which surely was what you were talking about, they were your words.

[ddom]

nickfrog said:

If you were after a comfy ride then choosing a Club Sport for a test drive was never going to yield a good result.
I really like the ride in mine, in fact it's what surprised me the most, I was expecting worse. I had a longish drive from Sussex to Oulton Park last month and it was great. As for power, what 300HP car can you legally push into its window? None of the ones I have owned.

Edited by nickfrog on Tuesday 5th January 11:37

I was told the CS was a better ride?

[Olivera]

ddom said:

I was told the CS was a better ride?

The CS is a super limited edition M2 that's only now being released, - are you sure it was a CS that you test drove?

[ddom]

Olivera said:

The CS is a super limited edition M2 that's only now being released, - are you sure it was a CS that you test drove?

Ah Competition....not CS, probably a safe bet that that one is slightly more extreme.

acronym failure!

[nickfrog]

ddom said:

I was told the CS was a better ride?

The CS is on adaptive but I don't know how the softest damping compares to the non adaptive M2.

Also, that's damping so perhaps the springs are inherently and understandably stiff.

And it's a relatively short wheelbase on Cup2s.

Edit The Comp has exactly the same suspension kinematics as the OG M2 (despite what the press say).

[grumpyscot]

I downgraded to a lower spec when buying my new car deliberately to avoid low profile tyres. I prefer the comfort of larger tyres. (I also didn't want the black wheels fitted to the upper spec model - the lower spec came with silver - much more to my liking)

[Flibble]

Debaser said:

Flibble said:

Smaller wheels are lighter (in general), lighter wheels handle better.

Porsche should fit bicycle wheels to the next GT3.

Smaller radius not width you plank.

[Kawasicki]

Flibble said:

AW111 said:

When I was looking at wheel & tyre (and brake) options for my '87 MR2, I looked at what the US (tarmac) autocross and track guys were running.
It was inevitably narrower and smaller than many fast street cars.

Smaller wheels are lighter (in general), lighter wheels handle better.

Nah, lighter wheels handle worse, due to a lack of stiffness.

[AW111]

Kawasicki said:

Flibble said:

AW111 said:

When I was looking at wheel & tyre (and brake) options for my '87 MR2, I looked at what the US (tarmac) autocross and track guys were running.
It was inevitably narrower and smaller than many fast street cars.

Smaller wheels are lighter (in general), lighter wheels handle better.

Nah, lighter wheels handle worse, due to a lack of stiffness.

Surely the tyre/sidewall flex would be much greater than any wheel flex?

[Kawasicki]

AW111 said:

Kawasicki said:

Flibble said:

AW111 said:

When I was looking at wheel & tyre (and brake) options for my '87 MR2, I looked at what the US (tarmac) autocross and track guys were running.
It was inevitably narrower and smaller than many fast street cars.

Smaller wheels are lighter (in general), lighter wheels handle better.

Nah, lighter wheels handle worse, due to a lack of stiffness.

Surely the tyre/sidewall flex would be much greater than any wheel flex?

It definitely is, but as often so in the strange world of vehicle dynamics, wheel stiffness has a considerable effect on steering and handling. I’ve got a few links to engineering papers that I’ll post up when I find them. I did a blind test with colleagues a few weeks back, same tyres(55 profile if I remember correctly), two different wheels with everything the same except weight and stiffness. All three test drivers got the same results. The stiffer wheels were about 2kg heavier. Nobody rated the ride as worse.