Why do we have to have low profile tyres to look "sporty"?
Discussion
Kent Border Kenny said:
Kawasicki said:
Nah, lighter wheels handle worse, due to a lack of stiffness.
I’m extremely upset with McLaren having fitted such light wheels on my car then. What do you reckon they should be replaced with, steel?ddom said:
Kawasicki said:
Nah, lighter wheels handle worse, due to a lack of stiffness.
Why is a lighter wheel automatically not as stiff? It depends on it’s construction. A lighter wheel generally, with relative strength vs the heavier will always be better. Engineering is about compromises.
What do you mean by “relative strength“?
ddom said:
Kawasicki said:
Because there is less material to resist bending/deflection.
Engineering is about compromises.
What do you mean by “relative strength“?
Forged wheels, Magnesium wheels, carbon wheels. How is unsprung weight ever a benefit to handling?Engineering is about compromises.
What do you mean by “relative strength“?
I went back to my manager and reported that the forged wheel was utter junk, and whether we could do something to improve it, he said talk to the wheel engineer. The wheel engineer said the stylists specifically sought a design with a lot of open space for the forged wheel, and because there was big brakes fitted he couldn’t add material inside the spokes. Forging makes the wheel tough, but it doesn’t necessarily make it stiffer. Of course we could have used carbon nanotubes construction to make both the stylists and the engineers happy, but then the cost wouldn’t be acceptable.
So unsprung weight that helps stiffen an overly flexible structure is beneficial to handling.
ddom said:
Right, so you tested some crap wheels compromised by cost constraints?
Yes, and everyone was telling me that because they were lighter they would reduce unsprung weight and that the car would handle better with them.All wheels are compromised by cost constraints.
For a certain cost I’ll take a medium weight wheel with excellent stiffness over a super duper light wheel with average stiffness. Unsprung weight is just one part of the compromise.
Kawasicki said:
Yes, and everyone was telling me that because they were lighter they would reduce unsprung weight and that the car would handle better with them.
All wheels are compromised by cost constraints.
For a certain cost I’ll take a medium weight wheel with excellent stiffness over a super duper light wheel with average stiffness. Unsprung weight is just one part of the compromise.
Some wheels are compromised by cost constraints All wheels are compromised by cost constraints.
For a certain cost I’ll take a medium weight wheel with excellent stiffness over a super duper light wheel with average stiffness. Unsprung weight is just one part of the compromise.
Perfection is just a simple equation of time and money.
ddom said:
Some wheels are compromised by cost constraints
Perfection is just a simple equation of time and money.
No, all wheels are compromised by cost. Speak to the engineer developing any wheel and tell him he now has 100 times the development budget and the cost of the finished can be 100 times higher. The final wheel will be a much higher performing part.Perfection is just a simple equation of time and money.
This is all kind of obvious though, so I’ll leave it there.
Seems like this conversation has just turned into... Something expensive is better than Something cheap.
For a billion pounds I could build a car in the shape of a banana which is faster than a Ferrari shaped car for one thousand pounds.
That doesn't mean a car should be the shape of a banana.
For a billion pounds I could build a car in the shape of a banana which is faster than a Ferrari shaped car for one thousand pounds.
That doesn't mean a car should be the shape of a banana.
Kawasicki said:
No, all wheels are compromised by cost. Speak to the engineer developing any wheel and tell him he now has 100 times the development budget and the cost of the finished can be 100 times higher. The final wheel will be a much higher performing part.
This is all kind of obvious though, so I’ll leave it there.
No, they are not. All things have a cost vs performance, but at the high end cost is secondary to performance.This is all kind of obvious though, so I’ll leave it there.
ddom said:
Kawasicki said:
No, all wheels are compromised by cost. Speak to the engineer developing any wheel and tell him he now has 100 times the development budget and the cost of the finished can be 100 times higher. The final wheel will be a much higher performing part.
This is all kind of obvious though, so I’ll leave it there.
No, they are not. All things have a cost vs performance, but at the high end cost is secondary to performance.This is all kind of obvious though, so I’ll leave it there.
Using the same size tyre, I think you can make a lightweight wheel stiff enough to perform as well as a heavier one (carbon/magnesium etc) and then the benefits of lower unsprung weight will give a hefty advantage.
If your wheel is big with a skinny profile tyre it will likely be flimsy if you make it out of either alu or mag anyway.
This only serves to reinforce the argument that the big alloys/skinny profiled tyre arrangement is largely fashion and detrimental to performance. And of course the car ends up looking s
t.
If your wheel is big with a skinny profile tyre it will likely be flimsy if you make it out of either alu or mag anyway.
This only serves to reinforce the argument that the big alloys/skinny profiled tyre arrangement is largely fashion and detrimental to performance. And of course the car ends up looking s
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