BMW Finance Decline

[Derek 911]

xjay1337 said:

You still don't get it - stop biting, the "trolls" will leave you alone.
This is also the internet, not everyone is nice to you. I've been on BMW forums and can tell you that for free :-)

Admittedly it’s been a while since I frequented Car forums with regularity but back in the day E46 fanatics was full of decent folk as was the bmw Car club and I met some friends at meets and stuff maybe this is just the way of the net/social media/forums/society in general now.

And for the record I’m not biting at anyone, I know it’s a wky attitude round here but when you drop a pebble in a pond you get ripples if some folk don’t start speaking their mind that they think it’s st then nothing will be done and the attitude will prevail.

I’m surprised moderators don’t do more

[Derek 911]

The only ‘throbbers’ are on this forum.

maybe make a sticky saying ‘this is a zoo you are entering don’t feed the narcisstic pricks anything they don’t like that may make them feel insecure or tarnish their dogmatic view of the universe. This could result in goading, abuse & all sorts of negative energy being hurled your way. If you do not tolerate said abuse with nothing but a smile and bowl of popcorn for the pricks that find it funny they will further judge you and call you on anything you said back to them from the goading in the first place.’

Www.prickheads.com

They also know fk all about cars, talk st on cheap ‘sheds’ dream about 100k Car garages which are all relatively easily attainable if you went out got up off your arse and saved for a decent job or loan amount to afford them. If you don’t or you can’t then don’t up on your high horse judging the folk that do.

Edited by Derek 911 on Monday 26th March 19:57

[Derek 911]

Well for anyone who cares here is a conclusion to this often terrible & sometimes informative thread.
I've had a call from 1 of BMW underwriters following my email asking to understand the rejection.

Without going into too much detail cos it'll just give the trolls something else to nitpick on, basically go away and pay the 911 for 3 months to prove affordability, having the F30 330d in the picture during 2017 destoy's their credit models as they can't project my future behavior due to having no relevent information from my past.

Then pay the credit card off to boost your debt utilisation ratio and we'll approve you more or less that was how the conversation went. Anyone who want's the actual detail of the conversation to understand the in's and out's for your own car buying experience then feel free to PM me.

[Derek 911]

No real intentions of putting both cars on the road as much as it would be a dream garage it’s just not a dream monthly payment plan and I’m daft but not that daft.

It ain’t so bad I will just make a point of enjoying the P car over the summer months maybe the 911’s charms will make me want to keep her a little longer. I’ll do doubt upset the Porsche enthusiasts by choosing Munich’s finest over the 911 but I’m just a bmw kinda guy and I need the practicality of the saloon for the daily my only car. Porsche 911 is unbelievable handling and fun by anyone’s standards, the original sports car and like I said it isn’t so bad to run one over the summer anyway I had decided I was doing just that.

[Derek 911]

TheJimi said:

Derek 911 said:

No real intentions of putting both cars on the road as much as it would be a dream garage it’s just not a dream monthly payment plan and I’m daft but not that daft.

It ain’t so bad I will just make a point of enjoying the P car over the summer months maybe the 911’s charms will make me want to keep her a little longer. I’ll do doubt upset the Porsche enthusiasts by choosing Munich’s finest over the 911 but I’m just a bmw kinda guy and I need the practicality of the saloon for the daily my only car. Porsche 911 is unbelievable handling and fun by anyone’s standards, the original sports car and like I said it isn’t so bad to run one over the summer anyway I had decided I was doing just that.

Take my advice and buy something mundane, cheap and comfy for the daily schlep.

That leaves the 911 to be enjoyed purely for enjoyment. I'd be very surprised if that didn't change how you feel about the 911.

Finally now we can talk about some of the merits of the cars. When I had the 330d as the daily I felt it was superior in every single way for that job which no one could doubt. Newer tech, lots of torque, to the casual observer and business clients just another boring big bland bmw.

That left the 911 to be enjoyed as an occasion Car at the wkend and yes lots of fun, shines in its element in this regard.

However it leaves me with a problem. I’m not trying to give the impression of wealth on this forum as I have been accused actually it’s the opposite I’m saying the 911 is a rich man’s toy and to me you don’t run around in a ‘shed’ and have a 911 that you finance sat doing nothing. Your that well off you have a 911 and a new 5 series or a Range Rover or something as a daily and you paid cash.

911’s is a game I can’t afford and more still the 3.6 Carrera 997 is about equivalent to the 320d if you want to compare them in the range and if you want a real raw aggressive sports car 911 your probably buying an old 993 classic or a 991 GT3.

Either way I could only dream of that cash to spend so I am more comfortably buy/leasing some big 3 series M performance M car variant and being done with it.

I get daily use out of monthly payment, latest tech, gadgets and comforts and I can press the M button and turn it into the sports saloon when I feel it’s an ‘occasion’ moment.

It is the best of both worlds for me anyway, it will never be as good as a 911 as an occasion car but it’s not trying to be and neither was the 911 meant for the daily commute.

That’s how I feel about them others may be different but I feel the underpinnings or a proper sports car is why the 911 does not belong on a daily commute the bmw M was designed for both and it does it fairly well.

[Derek 911]

Shnozz said:

Surely the financial damage on running a £35k 997 every day would be far less than financing and running a newer M car? And more fun to boot. Just be content with what you have, use it and enjoy.

I still might consider a secondhand F80 around 35k, depends what deals are going on the new car at the end of the build dates.

Would say running costs are comparable, both probably around mid to low 20mpg. Insurance similar the bmw would benefit from dealer warranty service pack etc currently I have an aftermarket warranty on the Porsche and would be paying servicing myself.

It boils down more to practicality of a daily driver but I know what your saying if anything I would say I regret parting with the 330d it just ticks the daily living boxes.

[Derek 911]

daemon said:

Derek 911 said:

Shnozz said:

Surely the financial damage on running a £35k 997 every day would be far less than financing and running a newer M car? And more fun to boot. Just be content with what you have, use it and enjoy.

I still might consider a secondhand F80 around 35k, depends what deals are going on the new car at the end of the build dates.

Would say running costs are comparable, both probably around mid to low 20mpg. Insurance similar the bmw would benefit from dealer warranty service pack etc currently I have an aftermarket warranty on the Porsche and would be paying servicing myself.

It boils down more to practicality of a daily driver but I know what your saying if anything I would say I regret parting with the 330d it just ticks the daily living boxes.

I think the depreciation would be much more significant on an M3 than on the 911.

In terms of "more practicality" - do you actually mean "more practicality" or is it that you'd be more comfortable running a newer M3 as a DD?

Yes agreed terrible depreciation on the M car by comparison. Practicality wise I have a son that I see at wkends & also I play snooker & have friends I pick up from time to time. Business meetings at client offices & site the 911 constantly becomes a talking point and I’m not that kind of guy. An M3 I know is hardly subtle but flys under the radar more in these situation.

I’ve always had a bmw saloon car as my daily driver and the plan was I was initially replacing the 330d with an e92 equivalent as a daily I feel I can’t really justify having both on the road.

[Derek 911]

TheJimi said:

I'm not wholly convinced that a new M3 will fly under the radar as much as you think it will.

BMW is regarded as a highly aspirational brand by many people. A new M3 *WILL* get noticed by all but the most apathetic of people.

So 911 to new M3 for that reason doesn't scan for me.

I’ve never owned an M3, I’ve had the estoril blue e46 330 clubsport, the e92 Alpina D3 Bi-Turbo, the F30 I just sold had every M performance box ticked including the full carbon bodykit, the digital wheel, 20s etc etc.

So I can’t really compare M3 ownership but the above cars are pretty close to the casual observer, I know the M3’s of each generation have a slightly more extreme look but compared to the looks and attention the 911 receives I prefer the slight sleeper feel of an M3.

A 911 is a real talking point for many, I’m not sure on the image of each car perhaps due to the 911 iconic status people want to talk about it more and stop you etc for a chat because it’s less offensive/aggressive than a BMW M type car.

One older guy who stopped me in a car park about the 911 got chatting and he said no a bmw is just a bmw you don’t see porsche every day I wouldn’t turn my head at any bmw but a Porsche is a Porsche.

As a petrol head I totally understand what your saying an M3 is not subtle by any manner of means but there is the casual observers who just don’t care about them.

[Derek 911]

crisp packet said:

Hi Derek - my own experience having owned quite a few 911's and M3's is no-one really cares that much what you drive - or at least no-one you would want to care - so i'd say drive what makes you happy. If you've never owned an M3 then what you're proposing as a first one is quite a financial gamble and reasonably long term commitment and you might end up feeling you preferred the 911. Absolutely don't want to pour cold water on this though as I know what a buzz it is looking forward to a new car.

In the last 4 years my daily's have been a GT-R (R35), 997 Turbo and a supercharged E90 M3 (which I still have). The commute is good roads although a bit pot-holed at the mo (where isn't!) and i've (finally) come to the conclusion that I haven't been enjoying them as much as I should as dailys. I love the M3, it's a great place to be, lots of toys etc but it's starting to feel less special than it should. I'm now going to largely keep it at home (apart from sunny days or when I feel like bringing it in) and drive more boring cars to work. It will keep the miles off, keep it clean and keep it feeling much more special. A friend with a new M3 drove it the other week and preferred it to his - although his had a nicer cabin.

I don't know if this adds anything at all but if it was me i'd maybe go for something that won't depreciate so much, financing might be trickier, I get that, but if that can be sorted it might mean you've got something you're more connected with but which you can easily shift on for hopefully little financial loss and look forward to getting something else to enjoy.

Happy motoring whatever you do and for the record i'd happily have a beer with you from what i've read! Cheers

Cheers mate, I’ve test drove the E92 and considered it as the wise choice depreciation wise as you said it’s in the same kind of class as the 997. V8 noise was incredible Car awesome in every way however my last bmw was the F30 the cabin as you mentioned gets slightly dated feel when your used to the newer model.

A halfway house on the F80 I feel is going non competition pack for about 30-35k, sticking the performance exhaust on it to sort the noise & the ACS springs to fix the handling you then have a near as dammit comp pack M3 that won’t drop like a stone in relative terms to the 50-60k brand new car.

I am a little anxious about dropping another 25-30k in depreciation in 3 years, it’s also taking a gamble that the new model doesn’t come and rape residuals on the F80 it wasn’t the best received M3 by the motoring press the E92 has the charms of the V8 holding it’s price up but you make a fair point and it’s one that I have debated greatly the new car ain’t what it’s about for me it’s striking the balance between big financial commitment & car enjoyment somewhere in the middle there is a bargain to be had it’s probably the F80 at 3 years old basically.

[Derek 911]

Herbs said:

crisp packet said:

Hi Derek - my own experience having owned quite a few 911's and M3's is no-one really cares that much what you drive - or at least no-one you would want to care - so i'd say drive what makes you happy. If you've never owned an M3 then what you're proposing as a first one is quite a financial gamble and reasonably long term commitment and you might end up feeling you preferred the 911. Absolutely don't want to pour cold water on this though as I know what a buzz it is looking forward to a new car.

In the last 4 years my daily's have been a GT-R (R35), 997 Turbo and a supercharged E90 M3 (which I still have). The commute is good roads although a bit pot-holed at the mo (where isn't!) and i've (finally) come to the conclusion that I haven't been enjoying them as much as I should as dailys. I love the M3, it's a great place to be, lots of toys etc but it's starting to feel less special than it should. I'm now going to largely keep it at home (apart from sunny days or when I feel like bringing it in) and drive more boring cars to work. It will keep the miles off, keep it clean and keep it feeling much more special. A friend with a new M3 drove it the other week and preferred it to his - although his had a nicer cabin.

I don't know if this adds anything at all but if it was me i'd maybe go for something that won't depreciate so much, financing might be trickier, I get that, but if that can be sorted it might mean you've got something you're more connected with but which you can easily shift on for hopefully little financial loss and look forward to getting something else to enjoy.

Happy motoring whatever you do and for the record i'd happily have a beer with you from what i've read! Cheers

The big appeal of cars like the M3 is the fact they are user friendly, daily duty sports car - do you not think that you would want something a bit more raw for a weekend car?

Having the conundrum myself.

I tried that with the 997.2, I feel with some subtle mods it would be perfect for a raw reliable & prestigious sports car weekend experience.

The exhaust on the gen 2’s need gundo hacked & a 3rd bypass pipe installed so maybe looking at £500-750 to do this. Other than that it’s a 911 handling is incredible, response on the throttle is as you would expect for 350bhp N/A responsive yet very progressive and loves to rev. Its the ultimate raw weekend experience with 1 relatively inexpensive fix on the exhaust.

My issue is sitting 35ks worth of car on my driveway while I pooter about in some old 3’er or 5’er bmw for say what 3-5k?

Part of me thinks you’ll just get the feeling you are always wanting bits of the other car no matter what one you are in. The M3s of this world may not be quite as exciting as a raw 911 but for the average non tracking driver probably ticks the boxes.

I don’t know as you said it is a conundrum, I am a bmw fanboy as it’s obvious to see part of me misses elements of that brand but the Porsche 911 is clinically perfect as a sports car it’s hard to ever find fault with it in its natural environment but it is not a daily driver and my other issue with owning 1 is you need quiet roads it’s a momentum car once you get going it just loves to rev and move winding up someone’s backside every 3 seconds gets tiresome.

Turbos in the M may be boring and unconventional but in the real world it has its merits.

[Derek 911]

TwinExit said:

Derek 911 said:

TwinExit said:

daemon said:

FWIW i'm wholly behind you also. The problem was you mentioned BMW & PCP and sadly thats red rags to a bull to a minority on here, who like to look smug and po-faced and sit in judgement of others with passive aggressiveness and condescending comments to "help" you, yet i would say if truth be told their (financial) lives are less than perfect.

It does strike me as very odd that in the "real world" people do have credit card debt, do have car finance and dont have a world of savings yet on here seemingly 95% of people are mortgage and debt free. And yet we're told Facebook is where people build up fake lives for themselves....

And for this to be a motoring "enthusiast" forum, heaven forbid people stretch themselves to get the car they really want....

If many of PH'ers you rant of were to financially leverage themselves in the way how the OP did, can you imagine the garage list of the average PH'er?

Loving and aspiring for fast/flashy cars is one thing, projecting an image of having such cars is quite another...

I still don’t get this the level I’m talking about borrowing here is around 30-40k for a second hand f80 M3. If this is still the confusion about keeping the Porsche and the brand new m3 comp pack at same time and 100k debt oh my god talk then you need to re-read what I’ve been saying.

What planet are people on here living on, 30k lending is barely going to get you in a tricked up C class Mercedes these days this is the price of cars in the modern world is everyone in here just running stuff that’s 10 years old cos that’s what new cars cost and yeah I agree it’s a mugs game but the judgemental attitude of this place really stinks ‘can you imagine what the PH community could afford if they acted like the OP’ your as big a tosser as them.

Get debt for a car or don’t, if you can afford the monthly and you don’t default it’s up to you if you wanna hand the finance company 5-10% profit but the reality is there are lots of brand new cars on the road and if people are dropping 30-40k on them from new and then losing 25 of that over 3 years then well done to them they are ahead of me but I would imagine I’m not the only guy in the country leasing a depreciating asset it works for some of us.

The bottom line is you wanted a slice of the petrol-head playboy lifestyle of having a new M3 and a modern 911 on your Scottish council estate front drive, and BMW are not willing to permit you the finance for that!

We all want nicer and better material things and chances are they are usually slightly or way out of reach, so get over yourself.

And here I thought the poster 'Humandoing' was bad.

I’m too busy spending all my money on high performance cars to do the driveway up, does that make you mad?

[Derek 911]

We were making progress by discussing the merits of both of these fantastic cars and why someone like myself might reconsider keeping/buying a 997 & gundo hacking exhaust etc to make it feel like a real raw weekend occasion car while finding a cheap daily mode of transport vs the one car to do it all kinda option ala M3/C63/RS4 type car.

Both have obvious advantages and disadvantages and has also been discussed on my thread on the 997 exhaust note.

[Derek 911]

TwinExit said:

Herbs said:

I'm not sure you actually understand his situation and i certainly don't understand why he needs to get over himself.

How is going from a Porsche to a M3 being playboy and out of reach?

Here - being crass and criticising someones house or lifestyle when it's uncalled for is bad.

The situation was clearly described early on in the thread.

A petrolhead nobody with high credit utilisation from Scotland started moaning on public forum that BMW won't approve his application to have a brand new M3.

The OP could settle for a cheaper car, but refuses to do so on principle of that it does not tie into to the image of 911 ownership - which is quite ironic considering the cars would be parked in modest surroundings.

Hi forum,

My names Derek I’m a prick & your going to judge me no matter what you’ll say that I’m all about image because I have a 911 with finance and I’m considering selling it for an F80 M3.

I also have modest home, in fact you might say it looks like a council estate in Watford.

You’s will all most likely not like me, see me as the source of some inner pain for the shortcomings of your own life and I am happy to fulfill this role for you.

Following this post I think we can all ‘move it along’ on this subject and allow those who still wish to discuss the merits of 977 vs F80 M3 to do so or credit scoring to do so.

Thanks and regards

[Derek 911]

TwinExit said:

Brooking10 said:

Which of the several occasions when the OP clearly stated that the M3 was to REPLACE the 911 did you miss ? It would seem all of them,

The “council” jibe is utterly pathetic.

The intention of the OP was to have both cars in his possession, hence why the BMW PCP application was made with existing debt derived from buying a 911. You simply read through later in the thread where the OP started considering what other options there are to improve his credit score, which included the idea of selling the 911.

Any one with a modicum of sense would simply take on board how much he can leverage himself thru debt, just sell the 911 and get the M3 if you really one one, and spare readers the pollution of forum rambling and counter-rambling about how hard done by he was by credit underwriters.

I’m afraid it’s you who has mis-read the thread like many others the 911 was never going to be kept.

The debate however was that perhaps the dealership were not presenting this information correctly to the underwriters, a point which I clarified upon speaking directly to bmw underwriters to them it was a revelation that the Porsche was being sold & it changed the perception about how much I wanted to ‘leverage’ myself on the application as you put it.

One car/loan was always replacing the other I don’t know how many times I said that on this thread.

[Derek 911]

ThousandYardStare said:

TheJimi said:

TwinExit said:

The intention of the OP was to have both cars in his possession, hence why the BMW PCP application was made with a background of an existing debt derived from buying a 911. You simply read through later in the thread where the OP started considering what other options there are to improve his credit score, which included the idea of selling the 911.

Taken from the 4th post by the OP, on the first page -

"On the subject of maxing finance I do have 39k on HP outstanding for my 997 911 to Clydesdale asset finance but all applications I’ve made to Bmw and actually to Clydesdale have been in settling that agreement"

Read what's fkin' written, not what you want to see written.

Of course, a bank isn't going to take your word that you'll sell one car once you've secured finance on the other. Which, along with mis-management of credit card payments, would appear to be the issue here.

"Yeah mate, I'll sell it next month. Honest, guv"

Something about trading cars in on the day and the dealership settling finance & taking the keys off you prevents the ‘ill sell it in a month guv’ scenario.

And as mentioned to help those who may be in a similar situation never trust the dealership to be sending all details through correctly to the underwriters as in my case they didn’t seem to know or grasp the Porsche loan was being settled to buy/lease the M3.

[Derek 911]

Shnozz said:

Hungrymc said:

Derek, I can’t quite believe some of the crap you’ve received on here. I can’t see why people think you’re trying to wave your cock around when you start the thread explaining you love cars and you leverage yourself up to enjoy them, and you’ve dented your credit rating.... Fair enough and I don’t see you as trying to big yourself up at all.

On the cars, I had a 996 with PSE and it did add to the car. It was still refined and very useable as an everyday car (much more so than my Evora - and that is still pretty usable). I’ve recently been looking at M3CPs to swap my daily (Don’t laugh... an Evoque). They are extremely fast and look funky in some colours, but I think you have to be really pressing on for them to excite (when you are, they really are very fast).

You’re in a fortunate position to be making these decisions, but even at this price level (any price level in fact), there isn’t anything that is going to be really good in every situation.

Whilst I appreciate this discussion is about Scottish council houses and the outrage of finance etc, briefly touching on the car issue for a moment...

I found the newer M3's to be utterly lacking in any real excitement or driver engagement. Dull, if you will. I loved my ex's E46 M3 and found it utterly hooligan to drive. I was shocked when I drove the later cars just how boring they were by contrast!

Just run the 997 as a daily! I don't think the impression of it to a client (or anyone else you need to "tone down" to) of an M3 is any better than a 997! Or not by sufficient amounts that they will suddenly think your rates are far more reasonable If you really need to tone it down for those odd meetings on client sites buy a £1k Mondeo. Would suit the road better too

You make a great point and I’m sure it’s one many of us will agree since the E46 day’s cars are just faster more sublime in capabilities but utterly boring and lacking in soul by comparison.

I do agree with what your saying in lot of ways and it’s part of the reason why I wanted to go old school 997 911 but I miss the modern tech & comforts of a newish bmw for the daily.

[Derek 911]

silentbrown said:

Shnozz said:

So therein lies your true petrolhead, non-wannabe answer. Save £10k (easy on your salary and low outgoings) and buy an E46 M3 to use daily. Clients will think you are undercharging when you rock up in a 2002 car, enthusiasts will know you d'man and keep the 997 for fun times and play times. Or when you want to show the client you aren't a pauper.

E46 M3 CS?. Total petrolhead kudos, likely to appreciate, yet flies totally under the radar for most.

Considered both the e46 & e92 M3’s depreciation proof for a start and they each have their own merits. fantastic cars in their respective era.

no doubt no one will believe this and instead say it’s an ‘image thing’ but the F30/F80 tech once exposed to it for a few years is hard to go back the way from.

I’ve also got an inclination with the high revving nature of the Porsche engine that the V8 & E46 straight 6 would be out my past 2 bmw cars have been turbo diesel. I’ve become aquintained with the torque and lazy power and out of all the M3 engines it’s the F80 I’m going to get on with best.

The interior dates the previous 2 generations of the 3 series aswell which I never felt I would say as when I had my E46 & E92’s i thot they were perfect

The sat nav & real time traffic updates on the recent bmw’s has got to be one of the best systems on the market also.

There’s few other subtle things you come to enjoy about the F30/F80 generation however I would agree that the tech is starting to run the show and we’ve lost the soul of the older cars but this can be said of all manufacturers

[Derek 911]

crisp packet said:

Herbs said:

The big appeal of cars like the M3 is the fact they are user friendly, daily duty sports car - do you not think that you would want something a bit more raw for a weekend car?

Having the conundrum myself.

It's pretty 'eventful' with nearly 630bhp and the sound is incredible - a bit wasted on the commute. For really raw i've got a 540bhp integrale - caged, harnesses, anti-lag etc - own until I die sort of thing - quite special. I tend not to 'press on' much these days though so pace isn't for me what it is for some and I like driving more 'boring' stuff too - I try to see the upside in whatever i'm in. I love the passion people have for their cars - I wish there was more appreciation of that on PH. As roads get more congested, pot-holed and camera'd and cars become more in the way of a 'white good' we're probably a dying breed. Hope more people can fly the flag.

Are you running an F80 with 630 brake?

[Derek 911]

crisp packet said:

Derek 911 said:

Are you running an F80 with 630 brake?

E92 CS supercharged by Evolve, big AP Racing brakes, Eisemann exhaust and a few other things. Really great car - triple black so a bit 'under the radar' and because of the glorious noise it makes you don't feel like you have to go warp speed everywhere - unlike the GT-R!

As others have mentioned though everything's a compromise. I did buy an E36 M3 saloon the other week - old tech etc but it's such a lovely thing - and all potential tin worm sorted. Not properly quick by today's standards but not many seem to be out and about these days so feels quite special. I recently sold an E46 M3 Touring - was SMG but actually suited it. Great car. I had an E36 M3 Touring and E36 328i Touring together a while back - the M3 wasn't the best conversion and the 328 was a bit tweaked but the 328 was so much better to drive. Cost buttons to buy and run and sideways everywhere was easy - great fun. So I guess i'm a bit of a BMW fanboy too. Cars are getting a bit grown up these days!

Yeah mate don’t buy a 997 Carrera 2 then even the RWD is absolutely supreme levels of grip and traction compared to a bmw it’s just sublime in getting the power down & difficult to get tail happy action without feeling that you may be pushing it too far and may die some time soon.

I miss that about the classic bmw signature dish, the Porsche is almost too good it is a fantastic piece of engineering that’s a fact the Carrera 4’s must feel like they are cornering on rails.

[Derek 911]

Brooking10 said:

TheJimi said:

I'm defending him because you are being a complete and utter weapons-grade arsehat.

Indeed.

Or as he might put it if one extrapolates from his profile

“A bloke with two proper chavvy motors who lives in a sthole of a Medway town”

Haha when did a 911 become a chav mobile?
What exactly do you drive I could use a laugh tell us?

911 belongs more to the ‘grey poupon’ crowd than it ever would to chavs as has been mentioned I must be wanting to live like a playboy etc you’s all make up some amount of pish in your heads I would hate to live inside such tiny minds.

M3s chav mobile’s 😂😂 I would say it’s behind the times for chavs to want arguably dheads all drive Audi’s now Bm’s ain’t even that well received by that kind of market anymore so you maybe need to keep up with the times but then again your probably driving something that was built in 1982 & your wive’s handbag is worth more.

Here’s a cat
There’s a pigeon
Troll your worst or just bore off maybe be better