BMW Finance Decline
Discussion
Deesee said:
As per your other thread
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
You’ve had the 911 for less than a yr, meaning you’ve taken on a commitment of x for x months and a large debt is now outstanding (all be it serviced) on record.
Your previous bmw car finance (as you’ve stated 15yrs) is unblemished.
Your VT to me (a lender) would not sit well, as I would have paid finance commission (as well as the purchase price to the dealer) on the basis that the debt would be serviced I would have a shortfall of interest, on top of paying out the commission and I’m left owning a car that I have little interest in ( yep it’s part of the business), and have to dispose of.
You have purchased a very nice car but less than 12 months in your looking to change/add to your garage.
My question (underwriting) would be how long before we are looking at another VT as theres no equity (as your putting in the minimum).
I’d have to ask you why not a 12/18 month PCH, as it would seem to be a better fit for you?
Fair comments and I agree and understand mostly. https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
You’ve had the 911 for less than a yr, meaning you’ve taken on a commitment of x for x months and a large debt is now outstanding (all be it serviced) on record.
Your previous bmw car finance (as you’ve stated 15yrs) is unblemished.
Your VT to me (a lender) would not sit well, as I would have paid finance commission (as well as the purchase price to the dealer) on the basis that the debt would be serviced I would have a shortfall of interest, on top of paying out the commission and I’m left owning a car that I have little interest in ( yep it’s part of the business), and have to dispose of.
You have purchased a very nice car but less than 12 months in your looking to change/add to your garage.
My question (underwriting) would be how long before we are looking at another VT as theres no equity (as your putting in the minimum).
I’d have to ask you why not a 12/18 month PCH, as it would seem to be a better fit for you?
Excuse my ignorance what is PCH?
Also I’ve kept all my other cars between 3-5 years all bmw saloon or coupe I’ve always wanted a 911 and it’s a box I’ve ticked I’ve got a son as a daily it’s limited obviously in hindsight I would not have VT’d the 330 I don’t particularly now want to put another car on the road and keep the 911 so my solution was just get the M3 as it combines the best bits of the car I aspired to own the Porsche 911 with the practically of what I’m use to and likely to keep.
I would imagine lots of 911 owners are in and out of the cars within 6-12 months hence when you look at secondhand cars they often have many owners at relative age of other cars.
Edited by Derek 911 on Thursday 22 March 20:44
RM88 said:
Derek 911 said:
I paid 48k for the 330d trade value today is probably 15kish so depreciation of 32-33k in 3 years PCP was 580 a month so as others have said the finance company have taken the loss with me on this car which is why PCP is a good deal on new cars but potentially also a factor in why I am being refused car finance now.
Sorry I don't really get you? You got out because you VT'd that car. If you had PCP'd that car for the full term then you would have paid the depretiation for that car without a doubt. Bar the possible couple of thousand pounds equity that might have been left in it vs the balloon payment. Guaranteed future value was 15k in January 2019, assuming trade price today is 15k for that vehicle we could assume maybe 12-13k at best?
So 48k car minus 13k gives us 35k total depreciation even with the inclusion of the interest on the loan being serviced it looks on those maths that the finance company & bmw still had some hand in the depreciation of the vehicle or at least making it seem that way by inflated retail prices and discounts etc.
But yeah either way you chuck away a ton of money on PCP but buying it outright with cash just doesn’t seem like it’s much of a better deal with that level of depreciation your 48k asset would have been dropping by around £700-800 per month the pcp monthly payment was £580. Pcp wins on that kind of car I would say which is why 88% of new car sales are pcp.
Integroo said:
Toaster Pilot said:
Not sure using nearly all of a £3k credit card is that big a deal - if you had £60k available to you and were maxing it out that’s a lot different
Your percentage utilisation is more important than numbers. 2.5k on a 3k card suggests you use all credit available to you. 2.5k on a 15k card suggests more self control.RM88 said:
Cash will always be the cheapest way of buying fact. Even at the current 3.9% bmw are offering you are still looking at 7k interest charges even after discounts. 7k is 7k! This is coming from someone who likes using PCP (as I can't afford to buy outright 
) and now leases.
Someone who has 50k of cash sitting in their bank is someone who is smarter than me, the reason they have the 50k in cold hard currency is cos they are not daft enough to buy a depreciating asset. ) and now leases. Either than or guys buying M3’s with cash are in a different league to my earnings I do ok but not 100s of thousands a year or whatever it would be to not really miss dropping 50k into a car. Reality is if you are earning less than a 100k your probably going to notice that kind of money going missing on a depreciating asset.
There’s also another arguement to say the guys with 50k sitting in the bank again given that they are very savvy and not a daft petrol head like me are probably interested in maybe investing that 50k in property rentals stock market even classic cars who knows whatever so they could offset 7k in interest to lease by whatever their 50k could make them over the 3-4 years.
In all honesty I think the smart money on the F80 M3 is maybe getting into a standard car 64-65 plate 35-40k saving up a bit and dropping in 10-15k and then do a 2-3 hire purchase on the rest which is something I am considering too
Integroo said:
Derek 911 said:
I have an American Express platinum charge card which you could buy an M3 outright on provided you cleared the balance in the next month obviously, which I couldn’t afford to do but they only give those out if you have good credit and earnings of over 50k I think it is can’t remember application was a few years ago before this recent pickle I’ve got myself into I did have very very good credit that card and 2-3 other normal credit cards all with 5-10k limits and I never used any of them really so I closed them down stupidly enough now benefit of hindsight and all that but I was just aiming to make my life simpler I don’t really use credit cards much my Amex I do but I pay it off every month the balance on the Santander or £2500 was just house costs and Xmas it will get paid off this month so I do feel some of this credit score stuff is a case of here’s some smoke and there’s a big mirror. I get that it could be indicative that someone is struggling or living beyondo means or whatever and it doesn’t help my situation but neither really apply to me I can afford to do what am doing financing high value cars is just the way I choose to buy rather than save up and buy secondhand probably smarter maybe I should consider this now but I’ve done it for 15 years so I do find some of the credit score stuff a bit of a black art.
I'm not commenting on whether or not you can afford it, just how credit scoring works. It would be useful for you to have a much higher credit limit you don't use to improve your score. I have 13k across two cards but I never go above around 1500 - 2500 a month and pay it off in full every month. Similar to you but my utilisation is never above 20%. I understand what your saying as I said in every other application in the past I’ve probably had 2-3 credit cards open with big limits and using nothing I just shut them down to make my affairs easier to manage bear in mind I have the Amex and the Santander card now currently active so 2 was enough.
RM88 said:
Yeah but we weren't talking about about investing elsewhere etc you were stating that PCP was the best option on buying a new car as it beats depreciation. Its not, PCP is one of the most expensive way of purchasing but it allows for low monthly payments hence it's popularity. You seem to think it's some magic form of finance where the manufacturer takes the hit on the depreciation that's simply not true at all YOU will be paying practically all of it!
Anyway good luck with your situation
however I think i'll bow out of this thread I don't think you seem to fully grasp the full aspect of PCP and that's not really what your OP was asking. Best of luck.
I get the full concept of PCP and yeah I paid the depreciation of the car but as others have said there is a reason you get that good finance rate from Alphera when your buying a new car & the dealer and bmw offer big deposit contributions and discounts that you will find are lessened when your financing through a third party or you pay cash. Anyway good luck with your situation
however I think i'll bow out of this thread I don't think you seem to fully grasp the full aspect of PCP and that's not really what your OP was asking. Best of luck. It’s why their are threads on here from wealthy individuals buying M3’s outright but first of all agreeing terms of a PCP solely to secure the discounts that come with them and then settling the finance within 14 day period so winding up with no interest.
Your right I’m not really wanting this thread to degenerate into some arguement you’ve brought up about pcp but perhaps rather than telling me I don’t know what I’m talking about maybe re-read my figures on my last PCP deal and consider that the lessened depreciation vs a potential 3rd party HP agreement came via the bmw select PCP agreement, the discounts that come with it and the rates that are lower than their equivalent product on HP or on approved used I’ve sat in the showrooms and compared the products and seen how it works on new cars being more value for money than anything up to 12-18 months old so it’s just something your maybe not getting.
Derek 911 said:
On the subject of maxing finance I do have 39k on HP outstanding
Derek 911 said:
application for a Yas Marina Competiion Pack M3
DELETED: Comment made by a member who's account has been deleted.So what I bought a 911 and thought I was trading down my daily to get payments a bit lower having both cars but the retailer let me down on sales handover date now I want to just get rid of 911 and get an M3 cos I only want one car on the road Jesus Christ shoot me I’m irresponsible ohhh holy god.
The purchase price of any car I’ve ever got on finance has never been more than 50% of my yearly earnings and I keep them 3-4 years usually but life happens you feel like a change with a 911 and it doesn’t work out so I go back to bmw which is what I know I don’t see how this puts the country into a recession in all honesty it’s my financial affairs and it works out fine for me 99.9% of the time I simply asked a question about credit scoring and I’m getting lectured on what I can and can’t afford and then the finite details of PCP for the last time I can afford what am doing Clydesdale who finance my Porsche confirmed my affordability of the loans I’m servicing is not an issue for them they referred me to my score as it was based purely on that so this is why with an alphera finance rejection and a Clydesdale I have asked the question about credit utilisation or other factors I may be missing I think after stating 3-4 times that I can afford the bloody cars monthly payments I don’t need to go into it again and it is just my preferred way of doing things rather than dropping 10-15k deposits into something losing money anyway?
Back on topic credit scoring........
Edited by Derek 911 on Thursday 22 March 22:01
To be honest I never really expected this kind of response on the best known car enthusiasts forum on the net. Basically the feedback from the question on my original post is:
1. I’m going to cause a recession
2. I might also cause the nuclear holocaust
3. I have no idea how PCP works
4. I have no idea how anything works
5. I shouldn’t be buying desirable cars
6. I should just buy a cheap older bmw instead.
It’s either a lot of folk on this forum with way more money than me buying every single car on the roads outright and can afford the new M3’s & 911’s etc cash & if that’s the case I wouldn’t mind you’s sharing with me how you’s are doing it cos I wouldn’t mind a bit of whatever income you are getting.
Or
It’s load of folk who love these kinds of cars cos this is a website for discussion on them after all but you’s would rather keep money in your bank and spend on other things and drive older models or cheap to run transport?
1. I’m going to cause a recession
2. I might also cause the nuclear holocaust
3. I have no idea how PCP works
4. I have no idea how anything works
5. I shouldn’t be buying desirable cars
6. I should just buy a cheap older bmw instead.
It’s either a lot of folk on this forum with way more money than me buying every single car on the roads outright and can afford the new M3’s & 911’s etc cash & if that’s the case I wouldn’t mind you’s sharing with me how you’s are doing it cos I wouldn’t mind a bit of whatever income you are getting.
Or
It’s load of folk who love these kinds of cars cos this is a website for discussion on them after all but you’s would rather keep money in your bank and spend on other things and drive older models or cheap to run transport?
Integroo said:
50% of your earnings is mental
DELETED: Comment made by a member who's account has been deleted.
tty tone of lot of these posts it’s like a bunch of keyboard warriors talking adding 2 + 2 & getting 5. So I like my cars, so what it’s a car forum this is just a weird attitude in general, 50% purchase price of my 1 year earnings spread over 3-4 years winds up being less than 20% of my takehome pay on monthly payments or alternatively if you saved up for 4 years then bought the car then. My only other notable outgoing is mortgage payment which is 15% of my monthly take home pay, that leaves me 65% earnings left over for food & daily running costs of house car & whatever else comes up in life.
I don’t drink, I don’t smoke, I don’t spend massively on clothes or any of that stuff I have no family to support cars are my thing what is the big deal? Where is the recession coming out of my behaviour?
powerstroke said:
Derek 911 said:
To be honest I never really expected this kind of response on the best known car enthusiasts forum on the net. Basically the feedback from the question on my original post is:
1. I’m going to cause a recession
2. I might also cause the nuclear holocaust
3. I have no idea how PCP works
4. I have no idea how anything works
5. I shouldn’t be buying desirable cars
6. I should just buy a cheap older bmw instead.
It’s either a lot of folk on this forum with way more money than me buying every single car on the roads outright and can afford the new M3’s & 911’s etc cash & if that’s the case I wouldn’t mind you’s sharing with me how you’s are doing it cos I wouldn’t mind a bit of whatever income you are getting.
Or
It’s load of folk who love these kinds of cars cos this is a website for discussion on them after all but you’s would rather keep money in your bank and spend on other things and drive older models or cheap to run transport?
You do what you want it's your life and your money ... However a paid up mortgage and a account with the Queens bank gives you a warm glow .1. I’m going to cause a recession
2. I might also cause the nuclear holocaust
3. I have no idea how PCP works
4. I have no idea how anything works
5. I shouldn’t be buying desirable cars
6. I should just buy a cheap older bmw instead.
It’s either a lot of folk on this forum with way more money than me buying every single car on the roads outright and can afford the new M3’s & 911’s etc cash & if that’s the case I wouldn’t mind you’s sharing with me how you’s are doing it cos I wouldn’t mind a bit of whatever income you are getting.
Or
It’s load of folk who love these kinds of cars cos this is a website for discussion on them after all but you’s would rather keep money in your bank and spend on other things and drive older models or cheap to run transport?
But if I was you I would get down to your local bmw dealer or whatever you like and go buy something to lighten up a bit cos on a car forum telling folk they are idiots and irresponsible for wanting a big loan for a nice car just sounds weird to me.
Brooking10 said:
Two questions OP
1 - are you self employed ?
2 - what broad line of work are you in ?
Yes I’m self employed. 1 - are you self employed ?
2 - what broad line of work are you in ?
I’m an Engineer I have vast experience in building & construction but as mentioned during the last downturn I worked primarily in offshore structures and it was probably my highest earning years.
powerstroke said:
Derek 911 said:
Listen I worked my ass off during the last recession and I got to where I got to at this point without the judgement of some know it all on the internet. I earned in excess of 120k in one of those years when the rest of the country was on it’s arse and I’ve never defaulted or had any kinds of CCJ or that kind of stuff so I don’t appreciate the judgemental stty tone of lot of these posts it’s like a bunch of keyboard warriors talking adding 2 + 2 & getting 5.
So I like my cars, so what it’s a car forum this is just a weird attitude in general, 50% purchase price of my 1 year earnings spread over 3-4 years winds up being less than 20% of my takehome pay on monthly payments or alternatively if you saved up for 4 years then bought the car then. My only other notable outgoing is mortgage payment which is 15% of my monthly take home pay, that leaves me 65% earnings left over for food & daily running costs of house car & whatever else comes up in life.
I don’t drink, I don’t smoke, I don’t spend massively on clothes or any of that stuff I have no family to support cars are my thing what is the big deal? Where is the recession coming out of my behaviour?
Maybe people are trying to help you , not having a go at you but a new BMW not that exciting really is it !! some supercar or classic something yes , but a new repmobile with big wheels arches and a big motor ???? and you just know they will bring out a new model so yours will be well a bit last year !!!tty tone of lot of these posts it’s like a bunch of keyboard warriors talking adding 2 + 2 & getting 5. So I like my cars, so what it’s a car forum this is just a weird attitude in general, 50% purchase price of my 1 year earnings spread over 3-4 years winds up being less than 20% of my takehome pay on monthly payments or alternatively if you saved up for 4 years then bought the car then. My only other notable outgoing is mortgage payment which is 15% of my monthly take home pay, that leaves me 65% earnings left over for food & daily running costs of house car & whatever else comes up in life.
I don’t drink, I don’t smoke, I don’t spend massively on clothes or any of that stuff I have no family to support cars are my thing what is the big deal? Where is the recession coming out of my behaviour?
Brooking10 said:
Derek 911 said:
Yes I’m self employed.
I’m an Engineer I have vast experience in building & construction but as mentioned during the last downturn I worked primarily in offshore structures and it was probably my highest earning years.
Ok I would hazard a guess that this is also playing a part I’m afraid.I’m an Engineer I have vast experience in building & construction but as mentioned during the last downturn I worked primarily in offshore structures and it was probably my highest earning years.
powerstroke said:
Derek 911 said:
And that’s nice for you but not everyone makes the same decisions in life. I’m pretty happy with mine you sound like your bitter about yours and need to brag to me about them on my post about an M3, maybe you want one maybe your like a little puppy humping it’s stuffed toy cos it needs neutered I dunno what your problem is but rest assured if I wanted to pay off my mortgage early then yeah I could forego the fancy car for a bit and hammer it at this stage I fancy this F80 M3 I am thinking on keeping it long term once I pay it off mainly cos I am getting older but also cos of the carry on with emissions and cars getting less and less exciting and yes also this bad finance experience application I’ve had for the first time ever so yeah what I decide to do with my home loan is my business and what you do with yours is yours.
But if I was you I would get down to your local bmw dealer or whatever you like and go buy something to lighten up a bit cos on a car forum telling folk they are idiots and irresponsible for wanting a big loan for a nice car just sounds weird to me.
To be honest I've always But if I was you I would get down to your local bmw dealer or whatever you like and go buy something to lighten up a bit cos on a car forum telling folk they are idiots and irresponsible for wanting a big loan for a nice car just sounds weird to me.
had more fun with older cheeper cars but I have access to some serious metal both ,mine and in the family some stuff I regret selling , less can be more and messing with and fixing up / racing something can be very rewarding and makes long term friendships just saying ...
Credit scores are pretty sensitive and life sometimes happens, I’ve always had exceptional credit, despite a recession and grafting hard through it I never missed a single payment on anything EVER out of not having the cash or not laffording it, it’s because I was bit all over the place living with a girlfriend and having some life dramas I was late with a couple of small payments on 1 credit card which I should have had a direct debit set up for yes I accept it’s my fault for being dumb but not dumb and in debt for something I can’t afford.
Derek 911 said:
Listen I worked my ass off during the last recession
DELETED: Comment made by a member who's account has been deleted. t about money and I’m not that type of person I’m very simple living other than a nice car I’m daft enough to want yes but when every second post is telling you that your living beyond your means servicing 30k worth of depreciation over a period of 3-4 years period you feel like you need to whip out your last 3 months paychecks just to be allowed to comment on this forum. The background on what I’ve been driving for 15 years or so and what I’m looking to drive next should have been enough to suss out that I was getting on all right
managing money & my question on credit score didn’t really need the big lectures and money brought into it all I think lot of it is some kind of bitterness or love/hate about expensive car buying or something I dunno.
So now that we have annilihated everything about my own personal financial situation and my state of mind and also arrived at the fact that from a lender point of view affordability really would not be an issue my question still stands.
Indicative score on MSE credit club 750
Weak factor 1. Debt ratio utilisation
Weak factor 2. High unsecured borrowing amounts
So we know the Porsche loan is
hurting me as others have suggested and the 2.5k on credit card can be fixed this month.
I can’t go back in time and erase the missed payments but given I could fix both the above and give it 2-3 months if I am still stupid enough and irresponsible enough to cause the nuclear holocaust another recession and give the queen a heart attack by still wanting this car do you think I would have a good chance by then of being accepted or is it too close?
Or am I really better at looking at this like a longer term project to fix my score maybe 6-12 months.
silentbrown said:
Derek 911 said:
I moved house at start of the year
...and...Derek 911 said:
Always been on electoral roll at that address for over 15 years I moved in with a girlfriend but still had that property and yeah I appreciate the forgetting to pay thing I’ve always been very organised and paid on DD but it’s juat one card cos that’s all I’ve had and it’s been for piddly amounts but living more with the girlfriend and having mail redirected etc and no DD set up has meant I’ve missed couple.
So if I read that right, as far as all your banking, finance, etc is concerned, you haven't actually moved house? You've just moved back into the house they always thought you lived in...?Derek 911 said:
Or am I really better at looking at this like a longer term project to fix my score maybe 6-12 months.
DELETED: Comment made by a member who's account has been deleted.So sorry to go into all that to qualify my personal situation but since it’s relative to the money chat then I thought I would throw it in.
Derek 911 said:
I’m 38 in a couple of months...I’m from Scotland
DELETED: Comment made by a member who's account has been deleted.coljoh148 said:
I'm similar age and earnings to you. Scotland, engineering.
3 kids in and I can't fit my all into an M3 otherwise I'd probably hav one, in fact the one eastern just registered as their demo would have done !
Wait a few months don't apply for anything else get rid of the Porsche and CC and go in again.
Thanks and what would you think is best way to go about daily transport until then? 3 kids in and I can't fit my all into an M3 otherwise I'd probably hav one, in fact the one eastern just registered as their demo would have done !
Wait a few months don't apply for anything else get rid of the Porsche and CC and go in again.
It’s at least gonna take the credit reference agency 1-2 months by time it gets updated the Porsche is gone & im all clear also maybe allowing for the 2-3 months mark to pull away from the recent applications aswell is wise.
I enquired at enterprise for a Yaris type car or similar for 28 day hire and that’s 450 a month. I could maybe get by using public transport for work some of the week and hire out cheap cars on a daily basis to attend meetings and stuff to tick me over?
This forum is more like a dick measuring contest for who has the most money, the reality is no one knows me or cares about me so ‘they are not trying to help me’ by ‘flaming me’
To me it just reads like they are having a bitter dig about my personal and financial situation cos they are bitter or smug or a combo of both about their own. And for the record I asked about credit scores, my personal situation and finances were called into discussion due to endless comments about not affording what I’m doing which again continues.
I’m just gonna leave it here cos the majority tone of this thread has been more idiots and dick measuring so thank you to the genuine people who did comment on the elements of my credit score it’s reinforced some of the thoughts I had and made me think about other options.
For the rest of the guys just piling in and telling me I’m behind you and what I should do your all my hero’s talking big st on the Internet you must have really set the world on fire and I don’t care what you have done would of done or are going to do the forum brings people together to discuss cars and elements relating to them which could have been in a positive way helping me out with my credit score question instead you all just pitch in and give it ‘awww you can’t arford this & what an idiot my mortgage is paid off and I have this and that and blah blah.
Honestly who really cares you don’t know me and your not trying to help me so get over yourself and find another outlet for your narcissism cos putting folk down on the Internet is childish no matter how mature you may say you are with your finances you have lot to learn about being a decent human being.
To me it just reads like they are having a bitter dig about my personal and financial situation cos they are bitter or smug or a combo of both about their own. And for the record I asked about credit scores, my personal situation and finances were called into discussion due to endless comments about not affording what I’m doing which again continues.
I’m just gonna leave it here cos the majority tone of this thread has been more idiots and dick measuring so thank you to the genuine people who did comment on the elements of my credit score it’s reinforced some of the thoughts I had and made me think about other options.
For the rest of the guys just piling in and telling me I’m behind you and what I should do your all my hero’s talking big s
t on the Internet you must have really set the world on fire and I don’t care what you have done would of done or are going to do the forum brings people together to discuss cars and elements relating to them which could have been in a positive way helping me out with my credit score question instead you all just pitch in and give it ‘awww you can’t arford this & what an idiot my mortgage is paid off and I have this and that and blah blah. Honestly who really cares you don’t know me and your not trying to help me so get over yourself and find another outlet for your narcissism cos putting folk down on the Internet is childish no matter how mature you may say you are with your finances you have lot to learn about being a decent human being.
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff