Cars that made no impact or contribution to motoring
Discussion
It's a good question because even bad slow cars offered some sort of contribution. Like providing cheap transport or appealing to pensioners etc. A lot of examples posted here don't have pistonhead appeal and imho that's different.
The Daewoo Nexia which was I think based on an old Astra for example. Did this not provide cheap transport for those not too bothered about how they got some where just that they did for peanuts. Did it not also give the Korean car industry a foot in the door into European markets. In that respect I think it probably did contribute.
This however:
Any practicality afforded to those less mobile by the sliding doors was soon negated by them jamming closed, opening whilst driving or simply not working and then there was the added weight and cost, not to mention the looks.
The Daewoo Nexia which was I think based on an old Astra for example. Did this not provide cheap transport for those not too bothered about how they got some where just that they did for peanuts. Did it not also give the Korean car industry a foot in the door into European markets. In that respect I think it probably did contribute.
This however:
Any practicality afforded to those less mobile by the sliding doors was soon negated by them jamming closed, opening whilst driving or simply not working and then there was the added weight and cost, not to mention the looks.
Edited by hornmeister on Friday 23 March 15:32
hornmeister said:
This however:
Any practicality afforded to those less mobile by the sliding doors was soon negated by them jamming closed, opening whilst driving or simply not working and then there was the added weight and cost, not to mention the looks.
I actually thought they were a good idea executed badly (I.E. by Peugeot). Would be better if manually operated (or manually operatable).Any practicality afforded to those less mobile by the sliding doors was soon negated by them jamming closed, opening whilst driving or simply not working and then there was the added weight and cost, not to mention the looks.
swerni said:
Pig benis said:
BarbaricAvatar said:
Born on rally stages, spend their lives farting up and down roads in the hands of imbeciles.
These cars were the pinnacle of proper performance for Joe public when they were new. Plus their chassis and technology used was extraordinary for their time, epic cars! Just a shame about the owners
"I won't post in topics i know nothing about."
How exactly did these contribute to the motoring world? The didn't change Rallying like the Audi Quattro or Lancia Integrale. If this pair had never existed the automotive landscape would be NO DIFFERENT. If they're important to you then that's a different topic entirely, but they didn't create a new niche or move anything on one jot. These cars are exactly the types of vehicle to which the topic refers.
Edited by BarbaricAvatar on Friday 23 March 16:36
captain_cynic said:
hornmeister said:
This however:
Any practicality afforded to those less mobile by the sliding doors was soon negated by them jamming closed, opening whilst driving or simply not working and then there was the added weight and cost, not to mention the looks.
I actually thought they were a good idea executed badly (I.E. by Peugeot). Would be better if manually operated (or manually operatable).Any practicality afforded to those less mobile by the sliding doors was soon negated by them jamming closed, opening whilst driving or simply not working and then there was the added weight and cost, not to mention the looks.
Shame it involved a French brand and electrical systems.
BarbaricAvatar said:
That's cute, commenting on the text of someone's profile instead of offering up a valid counterpoint. Give yourself a pat on the back for your featherweight evasion technique.
How exactly did these contribute to the motoring world? The didn't change Rallying like the Audi Quattro or Lancia Integrale. If this pair had never existed the automotive landscape would be NO DIFFERENT. If they're important to you then that's a different topic entirely, but they didn't create a new niche or move anything on one jot. These cars are exactly the types of vehicle to which the topic refers.
Well like-for-like i.e. Group A to Group A and road car to road car, they were a lot quicker than the Quattro/Integrale and more accessible price-wise (Integrale also a little scuppered in the UK for being RHD only). I don't think a Group A Quattro/Integrale would see which way a rally-spec Impreza/Evo went, they were both halo cars for their respective brands and increased the value of those two brands and then embodied the dreams of a whole generation of rally and Gran Turismo fans and made Colin McRae and Tommi Makkinen household names but other than that, you're absolutely right, carry on... How exactly did these contribute to the motoring world? The didn't change Rallying like the Audi Quattro or Lancia Integrale. If this pair had never existed the automotive landscape would be NO DIFFERENT. If they're important to you then that's a different topic entirely, but they didn't create a new niche or move anything on one jot. These cars are exactly the types of vehicle to which the topic refers.
Edited by BarbaricAvatar on Friday 23 March 16:36
I don't think that a car needs to be groundbreaking to move the game on but should be an improvement on what went before and excel in one or more areas. I agree with the Peugeot 307, with the possible exception of the SW variant and the cars below I think were worse than what came before in many respects and had little or no redeeming features.
Ford Ecosport. More expensive but looks worse and less fun to drive than a Fiesta and the side-hinged rear tailgate is just stupid!
2015 Chevrolet Malibu - had one of these as a rental in Canada and it's just so dreary and bland. Ford have the Fusion (Mondeo), which at least looks quite athletic and is quite pleasant to drive and Chrysler, the 200, which looks American and has a big V6 motor and Chevrolet just have this bland generic mid-size car.
Ford Ecosport. More expensive but looks worse and less fun to drive than a Fiesta and the side-hinged rear tailgate is just stupid!
2015 Chevrolet Malibu - had one of these as a rental in Canada and it's just so dreary and bland. Ford have the Fusion (Mondeo), which at least looks quite athletic and is quite pleasant to drive and Chrysler, the 200, which looks American and has a big V6 motor and Chevrolet just have this bland generic mid-size car.
Modern day Fiat Tipo
Even the boss of Fiat was recently quoted saying that this car was just there as a cash cow to make money and that he wouldn't give it much interest.
Shows how much of a good car it must be...
Apologies if this has already been posted earlier on! If so, I thought it deserved a 2nd mention
Edited by Twitch_shift on Friday 23 March 18:10
kieranblenk said:
My mother in law had two of these, the first was written off then she got another and kept it for about 9 years till it died...very very tough but offered nothing that the competition didn't. She now has a Splash which on the whole is a pretty well sorted little car.
My first thought was the Baleno, you beat me to it. As for very tough - possibly, apart from the gearboxes, which were famously made of lukewarm chocolate. They were replaced by the Liana which would have been just as forgettable if it weren't for Top Gear.
Best two suggestions in this thread for me are the Ford Fusion and the Almera Tino.
My suggestion would probably be the Rover 45 - not to be confused with the Rover 400 (1995-1999) which was a good car at the time. The former was released later on and sold up until 2005, yet was actually worse and less well equipped than the 400 which you could buy in 1995.
My suggestion would probably be the Rover 45 - not to be confused with the Rover 400 (1995-1999) which was a good car at the time. The former was released later on and sold up until 2005, yet was actually worse and less well equipped than the 400 which you could buy in 1995.
nickchallis92 said:
Best two suggestions in this thread for me are the Ford Fusion and the Almera Tino.
My suggestion would probably be the Rover 45 - not to be confused with the Rover 400 (1995-1999) which was a good car at the time. The former was released later on and sold up until 2005, yet was actually worse and less well equipped than the 400 which you could buy in 1995.
I'm not saying you're wrong but in what way was the 45 worse? Wasn't it more of a styling update and spawned the sporty MG ZS, which some say had one of the best small car chassis at the time and was pretty underrated in V6 form.My suggestion would probably be the Rover 45 - not to be confused with the Rover 400 (1995-1999) which was a good car at the time. The former was released later on and sold up until 2005, yet was actually worse and less well equipped than the 400 which you could buy in 1995.
Almera Tino is pretty horrid I'll grant you but when I was selling VW, we used to go for a drink after work on a Saturday with the Nissan/Renault guys down the road and I think it sold OK at the time. A Scenic or Picasso with Japanese reliability really, which although it has no appeal to me, I can see would appeal to some folks. Surely this is worse?
Edited by white_goodman on Friday 23 March 19:03
nickchallis92 said:
Best two suggestions in this thread for me are the Ford Fusion and the Almera Tino.
The Tino is a car that I have a fond memory of, although not for being interesting. My nan and grandad used to have a static caravan on a small site when I was a kid, jealousy was rife among the retired pensioners on the site, forever trying to outdo each other in terms of cars/caravans/foreign holidays etc. The elderly couples loved their mini MPVs unsurprisingly.Our neighbours a few doors down got a brand new silver Tino 1.8 S on an 03 to replace a Y reg Picasso.
Low and behold, their neighbours next door within a month had traded in their Y reg Picasso for a silver 03 plate 1.8 SE. Now their friends round the corner had clearly cottoned on and by this time it was September - so guess what they traded in their 02 plate Picasso for - a 53 plate Tino 1.8 SVE in silver! You couldn't make it up! By 2006 they all had different variations of Vauxhall Zafira, although some had gone back to the Picasso.
EVERY car made some sort of contribution be it negative or positive.
For many throughout the globe a car is merely an object that saves them from walking or using public transport assuming the latter is available.
Too easy to be know-it-alls, be superior & smug just because we are car enthusiasts
For many throughout the globe a car is merely an object that saves them from walking or using public transport assuming the latter is available.
Too easy to be know-it-alls, be superior & smug just because we are car enthusiasts
white_goodman said:
Well like-for-like i.e. Group A to Group A and road car to road car, they were a lot quicker than the Quattro/Integrale and more accessible price-wise (Integrale also a little scuppered in the UK for being RHD only). I don't think a Group A Quattro/Integrale would see which way a rally-spec Impreza/Evo went, they were both halo cars for their respective brands and increased the value of those two brands and then embodied the dreams of a whole generation of rally and Gran Turismo fans and made Colin McRae and Tommi Makkinen household names but other than that, you're absolutely right, carry on...
By the same token one could argue the McLaren MP4/4 wouldn't see which way the McLaren MCL32 went around Suzuka (the latter being 12sec a lap faster when it was working). Competition cars tend to improve by era (unless stifled by regulation) so that comparison is irrelevant. Just because a car is a range-topper doesn't make it a halo car. You're right that there were cars that embodied the dreams of Rally and Gran Turismo fans, but they weren't the Impreza and Evo. It's funny that every stickered-up Impreza i've seen in my travels has evidentally never seen a muddy road. It inspired a generation of Rally fans to..... do donuts in their local Morrisons car park. Wow, i'm floored by the contribution it's made to the motor industry.
BarbaricAvatar said:
By the same token one could argue the McLaren MP4/4 wouldn't see which way the McLaren MCL32 went around Suzuka (the latter being 12sec a lap faster when it was working). Competition cars tend to improve by era (unless stifled by regulation) so that comparison is irrelevant.
Just because a car is a range-topper doesn't make it a halo car. You're right that there were cars that embodied the dreams of Rally and Gran Turismo fans, but they weren't the Impreza and Evo. It's funny that every stickered-up Impreza i've seen in my travels has evidentally never seen a muddy road. It inspired a generation of Rally fans to..... do donuts in their local Morrisons car park. Wow, i'm floored by the contribution it's made to the motor industry.
Funny that...I owned a de-stickered Impreza WRX for 2.5 years and never did donuts in Morrisons car park (I'm more of a Waitrose man myself) but I did have a blast driving it as intended on snowy country lanes and also around the Nurburgring. Would Subaru be in the public consciousness outside of the farming community without the Impreza? Probably not. I think that they certainly did a lot for affordable performance and certainly made the premium manufacturers raise their game and their AWD systems were pretty advanced for the time (especially the Evo). Would we have 300bhp+ small hatches like the Audi RS3, A45 AMG and Golf R today without the influence of the Impreza/Evo? Maybe not. Just because you don't like something, that doesn't make it irrelevant. There are far more/less deserving cars that are more relevant to the topic in question that have already been mentioned in this thread. Just because a car is a range-topper doesn't make it a halo car. You're right that there were cars that embodied the dreams of Rally and Gran Turismo fans, but they weren't the Impreza and Evo. It's funny that every stickered-up Impreza i've seen in my travels has evidentally never seen a muddy road. It inspired a generation of Rally fans to..... do donuts in their local Morrisons car park. Wow, i'm floored by the contribution it's made to the motor industry.
Edited by white_goodman on Friday 23 March 20:29
BarbaricAvatar said:
That's cute, commenting on the text of someone's profile instead of offering up a valid counterpoint. Give yourself a pat on the back for your featherweight evasion technique.
How exactly did these contribute to the motoring world? The didn't change Rallying like the Audi Quattro or Lancia Integrale. If this pair had never existed the automotive landscape would be NO DIFFERENT. If they're important to you then that's a different topic entirely, but they didn't create a new niche or move anything on one jot. These cars are exactly the types of vehicle to which the topic refers.
Cars don't become as iconic or sought after as these two did because they haven't contributed anything or made no impact. A bog standard Evo 8 MR got around the TG test track faster than a full rally spec Quattro. The same criteria you've given applies in reverse. Just because you don't like them doesn't mean they're irrelevant.How exactly did these contribute to the motoring world? The didn't change Rallying like the Audi Quattro or Lancia Integrale. If this pair had never existed the automotive landscape would be NO DIFFERENT. If they're important to you then that's a different topic entirely, but they didn't create a new niche or move anything on one jot. These cars are exactly the types of vehicle to which the topic refers.
Edited by BarbaricAvatar on Friday 23 March 16:36
white_goodman said:
BarbaricAvatar said:
By the same token one could argue the McLaren MP4/4 wouldn't see which way the McLaren MCL32 went around Suzuka (the latter being 12sec a lap faster when it was working). Competition cars tend to improve by era (unless stifled by regulation) so that comparison is irrelevant.
Just because a car is a range-topper doesn't make it a halo car. You're right that there were cars that embodied the dreams of Rally and Gran Turismo fans, but they weren't the Impreza and Evo. It's funny that every stickered-up Impreza i've seen in my travels has evidentally never seen a muddy road. It inspired a generation of Rally fans to..... do donuts in their local Morrisons car park. Wow, i'm floored by the contribution it's made to the motor industry.
Funny that...I owned a de-stickered Impreza WRX for 2.5 years and never did donuts in Morrisons car park (I'm more of a Waitrose man myself) but I did have a blast driving it as intended on snowy country lanes and also around the Nurburgring. Would Subaru be in the public consciousness outside of the farming community without the Impreza? Probably not. I think that they certainly did a lot for affordable performance and certainly made the premium manufacturers raise their game and their AWD systems were pretty advanced for the time (especially the Evo). Would we have 300bhp+ small hatches like the Audi RS3, A45 AMG and Golf R today without the influence of the Impreza/Evo? Maybe not. Just because you don't like something, that doesn't make it irrelevant. There are far more/less deserving cars that are more relevant to the topic in question that have already been mentioned in this thread. Just because a car is a range-topper doesn't make it a halo car. You're right that there were cars that embodied the dreams of Rally and Gran Turismo fans, but they weren't the Impreza and Evo. It's funny that every stickered-up Impreza i've seen in my travels has evidentally never seen a muddy road. It inspired a generation of Rally fans to..... do donuts in their local Morrisons car park. Wow, i'm floored by the contribution it's made to the motor industry.
To counter your "just because you don't like it"; i'd also say that just because you're a fan of something, doesn't make it an icon. My own favourite car is the Diablo and if it were to come up in this topic i'd be a little irked. But i wouldn't be daft enough to disagree as it was simply a replacement for the Countach; less dramatic, a little bit faster and a little bit more user-friendly (apparently). Sure it looks better and i like it more, but that's not enough to claim it's a revolution and integral to the growth of the motor industry.
"Would Subaru be in the public eye without the Impreza?"
Yes.
"Would we have 300bhp+ small hatches like the Audi RS3, A45 AMG and Golf R today without the influence of the Impreza/Evo?"
And what have they brought to the industry apart from being slightly faster than the Gti/GSi/ group and WAY more expensive?
I'm with the guys in the early pages that nearly everything has had no impact or made no contribution to the industry, that doesn't mean i like them any less. Just that one has to acknowledge the "new edition" of a car is usually only an advance in the imagination of the designer or engineer (or the puppet who believes the sales bumpf).
Also nice of everyone to assume i dislike something just because i've nominated it here. I'd love to have an Evo 6, just not the image that goes with it.
Edited by BarbaricAvatar on Friday 23 March 21:04
captain_cynic said:
The Ford Falcon and Holden Commodore.
The only ones morning their passing are Bogans
Second that. During my time in Oz I found it hard to decide which one was the greater crap bucket, found the Ford to be slightly less sThe only ones morning their passing are Bogans
t. Also had the pleasure of driving Mitsubishi’s contribution to the Aussie sedan market, called the Magna.Given a true Bogan wouldn’t drive anything under 15 yrs old and MOT is a joke down under I’d expect these masterpieces of Australian automotive engineering to stick around for some time to come though.
BarbaricAvatar said:
Well that makes you the exception, not the rule when it comes to Impreza ownership.
To counter your "just because you don't like"; i'd also say that just because you're a fan of something, doesn't make it an icon. My own favourite car is the Diablo and if it were to come up in this topic i'd be a little irked. But i wouldn't be daft enough to disagree as it was simply a replacement for the Countach; less dramatic, a little bit faster and a little bit more user-friendly (apparently). Sure it looks better and i like it more, but that's not enough to claim it's a revolution and integral to the growth of the motor industry.
"Would Subaru be in the public eye without the Impreza?"
Yes.
"Would we have 300bhp+ small hatches like the Audi RS3, A45 AMG and Golf R today without the influence of the Impreza/Evo?"
And what have they brought to the industry apart from being slightly faster than the Gti/GSi/ group and WAY more expensive?
I'm with the guys in the early pages that nearly everything has had no impact or made no contribution to the industry, that doesn't mean i like them any less. Just that one has to acknowledge the "new edition" of a car is only an advance in the imagination of the designer or engineer (or the puppet who believes the sales bumpf).
Also nice of everyone to assume i dislike something just because i've nominated it here. I'd love to have an Evo 6, just not the image that goes with it.
That's all fine. I'm just not sure why you picked out those two cars in particular over say a Daewoo Tacuma or Vauxhall Vectra. The Legacy never enjoyed the success of the Impreza in world rallying and the Impreza is the Subaru rally car that people will remember. Going by your argument, most cars after the Model T Ford would belong in this thread. I read it more in terms of that model not moving the game on for its manufacturer or offering any tangible benefits over its contemporary competition. The Diablo that you mentioned was I believe briefly the fastest production car that one could buy, so I wouldn't say that it made no impact.To counter your "just because you don't like"; i'd also say that just because you're a fan of something, doesn't make it an icon. My own favourite car is the Diablo and if it were to come up in this topic i'd be a little irked. But i wouldn't be daft enough to disagree as it was simply a replacement for the Countach; less dramatic, a little bit faster and a little bit more user-friendly (apparently). Sure it looks better and i like it more, but that's not enough to claim it's a revolution and integral to the growth of the motor industry.
"Would Subaru be in the public eye without the Impreza?"
Yes.
"Would we have 300bhp+ small hatches like the Audi RS3, A45 AMG and Golf R today without the influence of the Impreza/Evo?"
And what have they brought to the industry apart from being slightly faster than the Gti/GSi/ group and WAY more expensive?
I'm with the guys in the early pages that nearly everything has had no impact or made no contribution to the industry, that doesn't mean i like them any less. Just that one has to acknowledge the "new edition" of a car is only an advance in the imagination of the designer or engineer (or the puppet who believes the sales bumpf).
Also nice of everyone to assume i dislike something just because i've nominated it here. I'd love to have an Evo 6, just not the image that goes with it.
As for the demographic of Impreza drivers, I'm sure that you have statistical proof other than your own narrow-minded prejudices.
Heaveho said:
Ford Fusion. I mean, just why?
Or indeed the Fiesta styled like an F150 - see also Vauxhall Mokka.
I would agree that that particular Sunny had no redeeming features but my ex mother-in-law had an Almera in the noughties and I swear it drove exactly the same and had the same controls as the Nissan Sunny we owned in the 80s but the 80s one looked a lot sharper.
The again, this has to be in there
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