RE: Ferrari 412: Spotted
Discussion
Strela said:
From the time I first opened a book about Ferraris when I was about five years old, these have been the only Ferrari I've ever really hankered for. I pondered the car in this ad, as this dealer shifts a few of them, but I just can't quite bring myself to take the plunge on a 40 year old Italian V12. Instead, I've just bought its even rarer but slightly more sensible little brother. One of these (not this exact one, but same colour - haven't actually seen it in the metal yet!)
Congratulations!Edited by Strela on Saturday 24th March 09:56
I always thought that they seemed like a good idea at the time. Maybe GME could have had their own upmarket brand, had they been a bit more canny.
IIRC, it all went more Sour than Bitter.
vixen1700 said:
Strela said:
The more discreet colours really suit the lines. Red ones are a bit of an eyeful. This 365 is gorgeous..
Always liked these, stylish and not too shouty. Especially like above in a subtle colour.What's not to love? The exterior design was always an image of the tasteful rogue.
In answer to my question, it is the engine which disappoints. And which, with Byzantine operation and crippling costs, relegates this sort of car to the rich. Unless... Unless, that is, you do a Chevrolet V8 swap. Mwa ha ha ha haaa....
The fully reconditioned and V8 swapped example, below, sold for the equivalent of just £35,000 (see article here). And imagine the annual cost of engine maintenance!
"Here's your bill for £300, Sir."
And, please, don't go on a whinge about the exhaust note. The Chevy will sing just as well or better. Furthermore: Want a manual transmission? No problem.
But, mamma mia this is some amount of sacrilege, no? The original V12 is the heart of this lesser-loved beast, the prime mover in the holistic whole. And, yes, there's truth in that.
But, f*** it. The sands of time are running out, and it was the exterior appearance of this car, and its interior complement which drew my attention all those years ago. This would surely be a fun project!
Yes, that's what I'd do.
In answer to my question, it is the engine which disappoints. And which, with Byzantine operation and crippling costs, relegates this sort of car to the rich. Unless... Unless, that is, you do a Chevrolet V8 swap. Mwa ha ha ha haaa....
The fully reconditioned and V8 swapped example, below, sold for the equivalent of just £35,000 (see article here). And imagine the annual cost of engine maintenance!
"Here's your bill for £300, Sir."
And, please, don't go on a whinge about the exhaust note. The Chevy will sing just as well or better. Furthermore: Want a manual transmission? No problem.
But, mamma mia this is some amount of sacrilege, no? The original V12 is the heart of this lesser-loved beast, the prime mover in the holistic whole. And, yes, there's truth in that.
But, f*** it. The sands of time are running out, and it was the exterior appearance of this car, and its interior complement which drew my attention all those years ago. This would surely be a fun project!
Yes, that's what I'd do.
Edited by unsprung on Saturday 24th March 15:26
unsprung said:
What's not to love? The exterior design was always an image of the tasteful rogue.
In answer to my question, it is the engine which disappoints. And which, with Byzantine operation and crippling costs, relegates this sort of car to the rich. Unless... Unless, that is, you do a Chevrolet V8 swap. Mwa ha ha ha haaa....
The fully reconditioned and V8 swapped example, below, sold for the equivalent of just £35,000 (see article here). And imagine the annual cost of engine maintenance!
"Here's your bill for £300, Sir."
And, please, don't go on a whinge about the exhaust note. The Chevy will sing just as well or better. Furthermore: Want a manual transmission? No problem.
But, mamma mia this is some amount of sacrilege, no? The original V12 is the heart of this lesser-loved beast, the prime mover in the holistic whole. And, yes, there's truth in that.
But, f*** it. The sands of time are running out, and it was the exterior appearance of this car, and its interior complement which drew my attention all those years ago. This would surely be a fun project!
Yes, that's what I'd do.
Not a Ferrari any more though.In answer to my question, it is the engine which disappoints. And which, with Byzantine operation and crippling costs, relegates this sort of car to the rich. Unless... Unless, that is, you do a Chevrolet V8 swap. Mwa ha ha ha haaa....
The fully reconditioned and V8 swapped example, below, sold for the equivalent of just £35,000 (see article here). And imagine the annual cost of engine maintenance!
"Here's your bill for £300, Sir."
And, please, don't go on a whinge about the exhaust note. The Chevy will sing just as well or better. Furthermore: Want a manual transmission? No problem.
But, mamma mia this is some amount of sacrilege, no? The original V12 is the heart of this lesser-loved beast, the prime mover in the holistic whole. And, yes, there's truth in that.
But, f*** it. The sands of time are running out, and it was the exterior appearance of this car, and its interior complement which drew my attention all those years ago. This would surely be a fun project!
Yes, that's what I'd do.
"I don't sell cars. I sell engines. The cars I throw in for free." Enzo Ferrari.
Jex said:
Not a Ferrari any more though.
Many didn't consider it a Ferrari when it sat new, on the dealer forecourt. 
I begrudge nobody who likes and can afford provenance and originality. On most high-end cars, I'd suggest to change almost nothing. But that rule, if you will, does not apply to this car. Bring on the gas torch!
Never seen so many positives on the looks, obviously spec saver need more customers. Bloody awful looking thing. For me that wow factor is tied to a Ferrari, i cant ever imagine a situation where I opened up the garage and got excited to take it out for a blast. It falls at the first hurdle for me.
Best to leave behind a garage door, sitting earning equity rather than parade it about filling everyone elses mouth with a little bit of sick.
Imo.
Best to leave behind a garage door, sitting earning equity rather than parade it about filling everyone elses mouth with a little bit of sick.
Imo.
Strela said:
From the time I first opened a book about Ferraris when I was about five years old, these have been the only Ferrari I've ever really hankered for. I pondered the car in this ad, as this dealer shifts a few of them, but I just can't quite bring myself to take the plunge on a 40 year old Italian V12. Instead, I've just bought its even rarer but slightly more sensible little brother. One of these (not this exact one, but same colour - haven't actually seen it in the metal yet!)
Approved! Lovely car. Will you be doing a thread?Edited by Strela on Saturday 24th March 09:56
To these jaundiced eyes, this is one of the best looking Ferrari’s ever. No superfluous scoops or curves, just perfect dimensions.
If I could afford one I’d go for a manual, the auto is anathema to me.
I remember a time when these were broken for their engine, or when a new exhaust systems meant that repair wasn’t viable (yes, they did fall that low in price, if not value).
But can anyone explain why a major service is £2500? I’m presuming that is at a specialist as a modern Main stealer wouldnt have a clue what to do with one if it rolled up outside.
Verdi seem to charge £1795 for an 18k Service & cambelts (I can understand how cam belts contribute to costs) but surely a major service would be oil, oil filter (x2?), air filters, brake fluid and antifreeze. Other than visual inspection of other stuff how on earth do costs rise so high (unless of course Ferrari specialists have eyes that detect light at frequencies way beyond the 430-750 teraherrz visible by normal human beings....)
If I could afford one I’d go for a manual, the auto is anathema to me.
I remember a time when these were broken for their engine, or when a new exhaust systems meant that repair wasn’t viable (yes, they did fall that low in price, if not value).
But can anyone explain why a major service is £2500? I’m presuming that is at a specialist as a modern Main stealer wouldnt have a clue what to do with one if it rolled up outside.
Verdi seem to charge £1795 for an 18k Service & cambelts (I can understand how cam belts contribute to costs) but surely a major service would be oil, oil filter (x2?), air filters, brake fluid and antifreeze. Other than visual inspection of other stuff how on earth do costs rise so high (unless of course Ferrari specialists have eyes that detect light at frequencies way beyond the 430-750 teraherrz visible by normal human beings....)
unsprung said:
In answer to my question, it is the engine which disappoints. And which, with Byzantine operation and crippling costs, relegates this sort of car to the rich. Unless... Unless, that is, you do a Chevrolet V8 swap. Mwa ha ha ha haaa....
If you take the engine out of a Ferrari, you no longer have a Ferrari.Might as well have a 'lookie-likey' kit car based on a Sierra?
s m said:
to3m said:
Never been much into Ferraris, but I always liked these, and the 456 too. Didn’t realise the automatic version was that slow, though!
Did make me smile that people were pooh-poohing a 1.4 Corsa for having the same performance earlier this week All is forgiven for a horse and a V12
The GM THM-400 box is an old dog of an auto-box which really dates the car, there are some options to fit 4 and 5 speed boxes which might improve the performance. I suspect even in the classic car world which likes originality these modifications might be looked upon favourably.
I like the style of these.
My uncle had one back in the ‘80’s, a fun car that really moved.
For similar money as a fancy Golf, if you offset the servicing against the depreciation a new Golf experiences, you’ll be roughly in the same ball-park - but driving a Fezza which is worth more at the end (but probably not much more!).
My uncle had one back in the ‘80’s, a fun car that really moved.
For similar money as a fancy Golf, if you offset the servicing against the depreciation a new Golf experiences, you’ll be roughly in the same ball-park - but driving a Fezza which is worth more at the end (but probably not much more!).
rtz62 said:
...can anyone explain why a major service is £2500?
In addition to the work that you mention in your post...Are accessories or components removed from the engine to grant access? Is the engine removed entirely? Is valve inspection or adjustment required? Transmission work?
Related to the above may be a number of gaskets and seals which, when replaced, tend to add up. They're not called for often enough to be produced in great number. Some, consequently, have silly prices.
Same goes for some of the OEM hoses which, despite having been fitted to a pricey car, were never spec'ed sufficiently well to be robust and to last a long time. A couple of those can set you back the equivalent of airfare for your last city break.
For an older exotic, the definition of "a major service" may have expanded over the years. The original to-do list has had another couple of things added to it -- things which were never envisioned by the manufacturer, but which many specialist shops now do out of an abundance of caution (because accumulated failures over the years have told them so). This may involve replacing part of a wiring clip or upgrading to an improved water pump or almost anything, really.
Edited by unsprung on Sunday 25th March 15:29
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