RE: Toyota Yaris GRMN vs Mini Cooper S Works 210

[daemon]

Mike1990 said:

Yaris all day long for me. It’s a special little hot hatch. Enthusiasts car.

I’d have thought a test against the the ‘proper’ JCW Challenge with its fancy Nitron Suspension etc would have been more fitting.

Still a good read though.

Agreed - but they havent made a Challenge for several years though? I think it was an attempt at "current" models (even though you cant get a Works 210 now....)

[s m]

LP670 said:

Thunderhead said:

For what is their most modern offering, the Yaris doesnt stack up well in some areas:

Yaris:
Power (hp) 212@6,800rpm
Torque (lb ft) 184@4,800rpm
MPG 37.7 (NEDC combined)
CO2 170g/km

Mini:
Power (hp) 210@4,700rpm
Torque (lb ft) 221@1,250rpm
MPG 47.1 (NEDC combined)
CO2 139g/km

I expect the Toyota to be low on torque as Japanese cars are traditionally rev happy, but the mini will feel much more instantaneous and ready to go in any gear in comparison.

Also, the MPG and CO2 differences are big, especially when Toyota like to focus on their environmentally friendly approach (I know neither MPG will be real world, but knock off 10MPG each and you still are quite significantly better off in the Mini)

Difference being that the Toyota will actually be able to achieve that figure in the real world whereas the Mini's figure is pure moonshine

Yaris Gremlin - Average mpg on test - 27.4 mpg ( Autocar test 28/03/2018 )

Cooper S Wrks 210 - Average mpg on test - 31.0 mpg ( Autocar test 06/12/2017 )

[cerb4.5lee]

Thunderhead said:

For what is their most modern offering, the Yaris doesnt stack up well in some areas:

Yaris:
Power (hp) 212@6,800rpm
Torque (lb ft) 184@4,800rpm
MPG 37.7 (NEDC combined)
CO2 170g/km

Mini:
Power (hp) 210@4,700rpm
Torque (lb ft) 221@1,250rpm
MPG 47.1 (NEDC combined)
CO2 139g/km

I expect the Toyota to be low on torque as Japanese cars are traditionally rev happy, but the mini will feel much more instantaneous and ready to go in any gear in comparison.

Also, the MPG and CO2 differences are big, especially when Toyota like to focus on their environmentally friendly approach (I know neither MPG will be real world, but knock off 10MPG each and you still are quite significantly better off in the Mini)

I'm currently getting 40mpg out of the standard Cooper S, 30mpg from the Yaris does seem thirsty for the performance it offers I reckon.

[s m]

cerb4.5lee said:

Thunderhead said:

For what is their most modern offering, the Yaris doesnt stack up well in some areas:

Yaris:
Power (hp) 212@6,800rpm
Torque (lb ft) 184@4,800rpm
MPG 37.7 (NEDC combined)
CO2 170g/km

Mini:
Power (hp) 210@4,700rpm
Torque (lb ft) 221@1,250rpm
MPG 47.1 (NEDC combined)
CO2 139g/km

I expect the Toyota to be low on torque as Japanese cars are traditionally rev happy, but the mini will feel much more instantaneous and ready to go in any gear in comparison.

Also, the MPG and CO2 differences are big, especially when Toyota like to focus on their environmentally friendly approach (I know neither MPG will be real world, but knock off 10MPG each and you still are quite significantly better off in the Mini)

I'm currently getting 40mpg out of the standard Cooper S, 30mpg from the Yaris does seem thirsty for the performance it offers I reckon.

I still wonder where the article writers get their figures from?


I presume the manufacturers?

Seems strange when they're closely linked with Autocar who have actually tested both these cars

[daemon]

cerb4.5lee said:

I'm currently getting 40mpg out of the standard Cooper S, 30mpg from the Yaris does seem thirsty for the performance it offers I reckon.

Does it get much long runs? I'm getting around 31mpg out of mine, but it does a lot of short / medium runs and usually at excessive speeds....

[ghiblicup]

daemon said:

Agreed - but they havent made a Challenge for several years though? I think it was an attempt at "current" models (even though you cant get a Works 210 now....)

Hence my post. My car is a Challenge Edition, one of 52 made and new last year. Nitron suspension, Quaife differential etc... (so ostentatious )

It's a great driving set up and was about the same price as the Mini tested. Though I know you can't get either new now!

[daemon]

ghiblicup said:

daemon said:

Agreed - but they havent made a Challenge for several years though? I think it was an attempt at "current" models (even though you cant get a Works 210 now....)

Hence my post. My car is a Challenge Edition, one of 52 made and new last year. Nitron suspension, Quaife differential etc... (so ostentatious )

It's a great driving set up and was about the same price as the Mini tested. Though I know you can't get either new now!

Those Challenge Editions are amazing. They're really holding their value and will no doubt continue to do so.

[cerb4.5lee]

s m said:

cerb4.5lee said:

Thunderhead said:

For what is their most modern offering, the Yaris doesnt stack up well in some areas:

Yaris:
Power (hp) 212@6,800rpm
Torque (lb ft) 184@4,800rpm
MPG 37.7 (NEDC combined)
CO2 170g/km

Mini:
Power (hp) 210@4,700rpm
Torque (lb ft) 221@1,250rpm
MPG 47.1 (NEDC combined)
CO2 139g/km

I expect the Toyota to be low on torque as Japanese cars are traditionally rev happy, but the mini will feel much more instantaneous and ready to go in any gear in comparison.

Also, the MPG and CO2 differences are big, especially when Toyota like to focus on their environmentally friendly approach (I know neither MPG will be real world, but knock off 10MPG each and you still are quite significantly better off in the Mini)

I'm currently getting 40mpg out of the standard Cooper S, 30mpg from the Yaris does seem thirsty for the performance it offers I reckon.

I still wonder where the article writers get their figures from?


I presume the manufacturers?

Seems strange when they're closely linked with Autocar who have actually tested both these cars

I'm going from the OBC though so its more than likely miles out!

[cerb4.5lee]

daemon said:

cerb4.5lee said:

I'm currently getting 40mpg out of the standard Cooper S, 30mpg from the Yaris does seem thirsty for the performance it offers I reckon.

Does it get much long runs? I'm getting around 31mpg out of mine, but it does a lot of short / medium runs and usually at excessive speeds....

It does go on a few long runs, plus I don't think I'm trying hard enough in terms of speed!

[howardhughes]

DDg said:

If the R53 is the supercharged one, then, yes, brilliant car - my ex had one and it was so much fun, and way more than the MX5 she had before it - made you feel 17 again. I kept in touch with her hoping to buy it one day, but then she got rear ended in it and I lost interest.

Edited by DDg on Thursday 5th April 09:44

Indeed it is the supercharged version.

[V10Ace]

mooseracer said:

sr.guiri said:

Can I be honest with my thoughts!!???

Both are a pile of st, IMO. The Toyota, well, just look at it, it's HORRIBLE

The Mini..... these are for girls who shop at Jack Wills and "lunch". The sort of people who spend their spare time in "Designer Outlets".

Their levels of performance are irrelevant - they are still awful not matter how much BHPs you throw at them.

Yep, and mx-5's are for hair-dressers

Well... he did say he was being honest and to be fair, you were the one who brought up the MX-5

lol

[daemon]

V10Ace said:

mooseracer said:

sr.guiri said:

Can I be honest with my thoughts!!???

Both are a pile of st, IMO. The Toyota, well, just look at it, it's HORRIBLE

The Mini..... these are for girls who shop at Jack Wills and "lunch". The sort of people who spend their spare time in "Designer Outlets".

Their levels of performance are irrelevant - they are still awful not matter how much BHPs you throw at them.

Yep, and mx-5's are for hair-dressers

Well... he did say he was being honest and to be fair, you were the one who brought up the MX-5

lol

I quite like the fact my MINI has a certain stereotyped image. I went for a relative subtle / retro colour combo and have it lightly modded to around 230BHP.

Its subtle enough to be parked anywhere without attracting attention, but is a hoot to drive and your average boy racer or TDI rep mobile thinks its a MINI One... until its too late

Edited by daemon on Friday 6th April 15:19

[cerb4.5lee]

daemon said:

I quite like the fact my MINI Cooper S has a certain stereotyped image. I went for a relative subtle / retro colour combo and have it lightly modded to around 230BHP.

Its subtle enough to be parked anywhere without attracting attention, but is a hoot to drive and your average boy racer or TDI rep mobile thinks its a MINI One...

I've driven over 100 miles in mine today on mostly A and B roads and I have to say that I'm smitten with it as well.

What tuning package did you go for in the end if you don't mind me asking Paul? Its something I plan to do at some point.

[daemon]

cerb4.5lee said:

daemon said:

I quite like the fact my MINI Cooper S has a certain stereotyped image. I went for a relative subtle / retro colour combo and have it lightly modded to around 230BHP.

Its subtle enough to be parked anywhere without attracting attention, but is a hoot to drive and your average boy racer or TDI rep mobile thinks its a MINI One...

I've driven over 100 miles in mine today on mostly A and B roads and I have to say that I'm smitten with it as well.

What tuning package did you go for in the end if you don't mind me asking Paul? Its something I plan to do at some point.

I put a Bluespark Automotive CR Tech 2 tuning box on it - i had one fitted to my Volvo T5 and i had it reprogrammed for the Cooper S. Makes a serious difference to it.

If i was going out today to buy one i'd get a Racechip GTS multipoint tuning box on to it - takes it to 246BHP for £399

https://www.racechip.co.uk/shop/mini/mini-f55-56-f...

If i'm ever feeling particularly brave at some point i'll maybe go for an Evolve remap. Takes it to 291BHP for £599

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wP9JB-0QM2Y

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQnKVfP3Ofg

Edited by daemon on Friday 6th April 15:32

[cerb4.5lee]

daemon said:

cerb4.5lee said:

daemon said:

I quite like the fact my MINI Cooper S has a certain stereotyped image. I went for a relative subtle / retro colour combo and have it lightly modded to around 230BHP.

Its subtle enough to be parked anywhere without attracting attention, but is a hoot to drive and your average boy racer or TDI rep mobile thinks its a MINI One...

I've driven over 100 miles in mine today on mostly A and B roads and I have to say that I'm smitten with it as well.

What tuning package did you go for in the end if you don't mind me asking Paul? Its something I plan to do at some point.

I just put a tuning box on it - i had one fitted to my Volvo T5 and i had it reprogrammed for the Cooper S. Makes a serious difference to it.

If i was going out today to buy one i'd get a Racechip GTS - takes it to 246BHP for £399

https://www.racechip.co.uk/shop/mini/mini-f55-56-f...

If i'm ever feeling particularly brave at some point i'll maybe go for an Evolve remap. Takes it to 291BHP for £599

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wP9JB-0QM2Y

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQnKVfP3Ofg

Brilliant! Thanks very much for that.

[daemon]

cerb4.5lee said:

Brilliant! Thanks very much for that.

The one on mine at the minute is a Bluespark Automotive CR Tech 2. Its rated at around 220-230BHP. Feels a lot quicker than just a 28BHP lift so i'm "assuming" its closer to 230BHP.

If i hadnt had it lying about (reprogrammed for £60) i'd definitely have went for the Racechip unit. I may well do it at some point anyway.

[indapendentlee]

daemon said:

ghiblicup said:

daemon said:

Agreed - but they havent made a Challenge for several years though? I think it was an attempt at "current" models (even though you cant get a Works 210 now....)

Hence my post. My car is a Challenge Edition, one of 52 made and new last year. Nitron suspension, Quaife differential etc... (so ostentatious )

It's a great driving set up and was about the same price as the Mini tested. Though I know you can't get either new now!

Those Challenge Editions are amazing. They're really holding their value and will no doubt continue to do so.

Are they though? I agree re the amazing bit and very nearly bought one but they were 31k once it was all said and done. There's one with a Mini dealer asking a ludicrous 40 grand and another private for 27500 - probably holding up better than a JCW but I think I'd still sooner have my money in a clubsport S (or a R56 GP2 as it turned out for me!)

The key for the values of these will be what the F56 GP3 turns out to be, if it's Challenge + a bit it could tank the Challenge, if it's not as hardcore then it could do wonders for Challenge values.

[daemon]

indapendentlee said:

Are they though? I agree re the amazing bit and very nearly bought one but they were 31k once it was all said and done. There's one with a Mini dealer asking a ludicrous 40 grand and another private for 27500 - probably holding up better than a JCW but I think I'd still sooner have my money in a clubsport S (or a R56 GP2 as it turned out for me!)

The key for the values of these will be what the F56 GP3 turns out to be, if it's Challenge + a bit it could tank the Challenge, if it's not as hardcore then it could do wonders for Challenge values.

You've picked the highest of the high in terms of Challenge 210 prices though. Heres one at £18,990.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

Heres a high spec'd one that looks like its enthusiast owned for £18,995

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

I'd probably feel happy enough spending that amount now, knowing it was only going to drop gradually from there....

£31K new would have been painful....

Edited by daemon on Friday 6th April 15:57

Edited by daemon on Friday 6th April 15:57

[Chestrockwell]

That one must be mental to drive, I had a 2017 manual poverty spec Cooper D for a few days as my car had some work done on it and my god it was brilliant, didn’t want to give it back at the end, such good fun, I had actually considered selling my car for a JCW one but for the spec I was after (HK,Pro Nav, Heated seats , leather, sensors etc), I was well into 20k + territory for year old models thinking they’d be around 15-17. I thought they hold their value well until I specced my ideal one up to 30 grand, they don’t hold their value, they’re just expensive to start with!

I can’t imagine what a 210bhp version would be like. I haven’t driven so can’t make a judgment but I can’t help but think cars like these would be better with a smaller power output, I mean to zip around town and county roads, I never at one point thought, I know what this needs! 100 more horses! Then again I could be wrong, either way,

[s m]

Chestrockwell said:

That one must be mental to drive, I had a 2017 manual poverty spec Cooper D for a few days as my car had some work done on it and my god it was brilliant, didn’t want to give it back at the end, such good fun, I had actually considered selling my car for a JCW one but for the spec I was after (HK,Pro Nav, Heated seats , leather, sensors etc), I was well into 20k + territory for year old models thinking they’d be around 15-17. I thought they hold their value well until I specced my ideal one up to 30 grand, they don’t hold their value, they’re just expensive to start with!

I can’t imagine what a 210bhp version would be like. I haven’t driven so can’t make a judgment but I can’t help but think cars like these would be better with a smaller power output, I mean to zip around town and county roads, I never at one point thought, I know what this needs! 100 more horses! Then again I could be wrong, either way,

I bet you didn't need half the fripperies you specced on it though to just enjoy the drive!