RE: Porsche 919 Evo at Spa: Time For Coffee

[Sandpit Steve]

DiscoColin said:

Sandpit Steve said:

Now, have they got a driver with the balls to go for Bellof’s ‘ring record?

Ex 919 driving Champion, current Porsche VLN driver, multiple N24 winner and Pikes Peak regular Romain Dumas is still on their books. So yes. Yes they have. Multiple N24 winner and 919 driving WEC Champion Marc Lieb runs part of their customer racing operation as well and is similarly qualified. Basically - if they want it then they have the drivers as well as the car. Will probably have to take the scenic route around the outside of the Karussel though.

So they’ve kept a couple of works drivers on too, fantastic. I’m looking forward to this smashing the absolute ‘ring record as much as I’m looking forward to Bruno in the McLaren smashing the street car record.

[Schermerhorn]

Incredible.

However, I have a total newbie question;

How is it that with all the tyre technology advancement, aero improvements, engine performance and all the other technical improvements made to car/racing cars over the last 30 years that Bellof's record can still stand?

Even hyper racing cars like the Pagani Zonda R etc have never been able to touch it....

[Binjamin81]

An impressive feat to get a modified LMP car around Spa that quickly but can’t see anything to congratulate Porsche about. This only happened because they decided to pull out of WEC and not race at Le Mans with a factory team. If you are a fan, would you prefer they chase TG style lap records without competition or actually go racing?

It is one thing if you can’t take a race car forward (so we can see what could have been - think 959) or the car was brought together for a single event but that isn’t the case here.

C’mon Porsche, there is a right way and wrong way to sign off monstrous hybrids and it’s called Pikes Peak!

[Olivera]

Schermerhorn said:

Incredible.

However, I have a total newbie question;

How is it that with all the tyre technology advancement, aero improvements, engine performance and all the other technical improvements made to car/racing cars over the last 30 years that Bellof's record can still stand?

Even hyper racing cars like the Pagani Zonda R etc have never been able to touch it....

Bellof's record has been easily beatable for several decades, it's just that no one has the inclination to break what is a well loved historical record.

A VLN GT3 car with restrictors off and setup properly would most likely beat it. The BMW DTM car that did a demonstration lap a few years ago would have very easily beaten it had they not slowed down in various places.

[DS240]

It is nice to see them doing a project seemingly for fun and it is interesting to think what le mans would be like without limits in place. These P1 cars capture my imagination more than an F1 car.

However, I would rather their efforts had gone into not leaving the WEC early and not damaging the event (Le Mans) which they trade off so much.

And any comparisons with F1 are a little pointless, because if you take their rules away, they would be much faster also.

Still awesome reading some of the figures achieved by the car though.

[DanielSan]

Olivera said:

Bellof's record has been easily beatable for several decades, it's just that no one has the inclination to break what is a well loved historical record.

A VLN GT3 car with restrictors off and setup properly would most likely beat it. The BMW DTM car that did a demonstration lap a few years ago would have very easily beaten it had they not slowed down in various places.

This.

Bellof’s record seems to be a bit like Burt Munro’s record on the Indian at Bonneville. It could be beaten, but it seems no on really wants to be the one to do it.

[blearyeyedboy]

RobM77 said:

Debaser said:

RobM77 said:

I really want to see this thing lap the Nordschleife!

Me too, I can't wait to see it flat out there.


The main question is - would it be faster than a Nissan GTR around the Isle of Man TT course?

Oo.. let me think!

But will there be people who will claim that a bike could still lap the IOM quicker?

[bobo79]

m444ttb said:

I read an interview somewhere that stated Porsche was intending to continue with development of the V6 hybrid engine that they had intended to replace the 919's V4 as a training ground for engineers. I wonder whether that will make it into a 919 Evo2

It doesn't take a genius to work out why Porsche may have continued development of a motorsport turbocharged hybrid V6 given they have just freed up circa $150/year of budget now they have quit WEC... I hope they do it, and if Ferrari leave F1, so be it...

[Piginapoke]

If you don't find this a Very Cool Thing, you need to hand up your PH card.

[RobM77]

Schermerhorn said:

Incredible.

However, I have a total newbie question;

How is it that with all the tyre technology advancement, aero improvements, engine performance and all the other technical improvements made to car/racing cars over the last 30 years that Bellof's record can still stand?

Even hyper racing cars like the Pagani Zonda R etc have never been able to touch it....

Not at all - that's actually a very good question. The reason is simply that no racing cars of that performance have run there since then. Something like a sports prototype or slicks and wings single seater is on a different planet of performance to something road based like a Zonda R.

Weight partly plays a part (lack of homologation for road going crash standards in the underlying chassis), and slick tyres are worth quite a bit too (the average slick lasts about 30 minutes, compared to hours and hours for a track day tyre like a Trofeo or a PSC, so that tells you how grip differs), but once you start getting to the upper echelons of racing cars, downforce is worth an enormous amount. I realise that some of the extreme road cars that have lapped the ring have had some downforce, but nothing approaching what Bellof's 962 had, and a modern car like the 919 is on a different level again, plus has better tyres etc as you mention.

The potential lap from a Le Mans prototype or F1 car has no doubt been falling since Bellof's day and I suspect now has a 4 in front of it. There just hasn't been the opportunity.

[Bradgate]

Dear Porsche,

I want a go in the 919 Evo.

Yours,

Lewis

[domtheone]

Piginapoke said:

If you don't find this a Very Cool Thing, you need to hand up your PH card.

Agreed. Terrific little video.

[DanielSan]

bobo79 said:

It doesn't take a genius to work out why Porsche may have continued development of a motorsport turbocharged hybrid V6 given they have just freed up circa $150/year of budget now they have quit WEC... I hope they do it, and if Ferrari leave F1, so be it...

It’s a V4 in the back of the 919, but I’d imagine a lot could carry over to a V6

[tubs]

I like why Porsche are doing this........its because they can.

[bobo79]

DanielSan said:

It’s a V4 in the back of the 919, but I’d imagine a lot could carry over to a V6

A V6 was (and remains) in development for the next 919(which won’t happen...). Along with 200 of the LMP1 team staff who could presumably become F1 team staff if required... The 919 Evo could be a handy test bed for an F1 engine in the same way Toyota used the the TS020 to test their new f1 V10 before the TF-101 came on stream...

[Leithen]

Vitorio said:

Leithen said:

I'd rather they spent the money supporting one or more privateers running their 919's at Le Mans.

Im guessing the cost would be pretty much the same to running the factory team, especially since you'd want to stay competitive with Toyota, thus also needing a big development budget. These hybrid machines are much more complex then the pure ICE LMP1L/LMP2 cars the privateer teams deal with, and running them effectively requires a factory budget.

I don't see the need for massive development of the previous year's car. If Porsche had said to the WEC/ACO that their cars were available for use by other teams for the next year, the regs could have been adapted to suit.

It's an endurance race/series - there's plenty of history of privateers / garagistes running older cars with a few basic mods. IMO Audi, Toyota and Porsche should have been encouraged to make their cars available.

Yes, it's massively more expensive than in the 962 era with the hybrid tech to even simply operate these cars, let alone buy them and buy spares. But here's where the manufactures could have subsidised that cost. If various privateers couldn't then raise the sponsorship then the whole thing falls flat, but we'll never know, because the option was never on the table.

When you have the likes of Penske showing interest, it's a massively missed opportunity.

Future regs ought to be designed to encourage continued use of previous year's chassis.

[Vitorio]

Leithen said:

I don't see the need for massive development of the previous year's car. If Porsche had said to the WEC/ACO that their cars were available for use by other teams for the next year, the regs could have been adapted to suit.
.

The 17 spec 919H would probably still be pretty competitive in 2018, but toyota arent sitting still, and the privateers got a major shot in the arm, so chances of another LM24 victory for the 919 would be slim, and then the choice becomes "do you want to send out a car bearing your badge, on the back foot". Even if the team is technically a privateer, everyone is going to connect the dots between the car and porsche, especially since a whole bunch of (ex) porsche crew would need to be on hand to manage all the advanced hybrid stuff.

It would be interesting if porsche "downgraded" the 919 to LMP1L spec for privateers to run, but fitting a bigger ICE in there wont be easy, and im not sure FIA/ACO allow LMP1L cars to be sold turn-key

[Dale487]

RobM77 said:

Dale487 said:

Beating lap records left, right & centre is definitely more an interesting way of advertising your product than a news paper advert about how cheap your business lease deals are.

And they’re keeping clearly talented engineers happy & probably gaining loads of data as well as ideas for the race & road car devisions.

I like Porsche PR. They often just put forward a chief engineer to answer questions and are refreshingly void of bullst. It's a shame their cars aren't more to my taste, but that's just me - they have hundreds of thousands of happy customers

I love that Porsche are an engineering driven company, hence why they send their chief engineer and others from the sharp end of the business to talk to the media, as well as in their releases.

I wish I had the money to be one of their customers - they may not to be your taste but you name another company that you can buy a manual high performance sports car from? (BMW, Lotus, Morgan, plus maybe Ford if the V8 Mustang counts)

[Vitorio]

Dale487 said:

I love that Porsche are an engineering driven company, hence why they send their chief engineer and others from the sharp end of the business to talk to the media, as well as in their releases.

I wish I had the money to be one of their customers - they may not to be your taste but you name another company that you can buy a manual high performance sports car from? (BMW, Lotus, Morgan, plus maybe Ford if the V8 Mustang counts)

Same here, i pretty much hate all of their offerings except the cayman/boxster, but i would love one of those (or even an older 924/944)

[Sandpit Steve]

bobo79 said:

A V6 was (and remains) in development for the next 919(which won’t happen...). Along with 200 of the LMP1 team staff who could presumably become F1 team staff if required... The 919 Evo could be a handy test bed for an F1 engine in the same way Toyota used the the TS020 to test their new f1 V10 before the TF-101 came on stream...

Even with the corporate resources behind Porsche, they don’t keep an almost fully staffed LMP1 team employed just because they’re nice people. Fingers crossed what we’re seeing here is a nascent factory Porsche F1 team, probably targeting the new 2021 regulation change.