RE: Aston Martin Vantage: Driven
Discussion
smilo996 said:
PH’s 911 fan(s)atics are already out but it seems the only USP the 911 is left with now are large rear seats for those divorced fathers.
A couple of things wrong with your (joke??) comment:1) The rear seats are far from large in a 911
2) If you are a divorced father, you can't afford a 911.
Oh dear, a case of emperor's clothes..... Aston's are ALWAYS over rated but looked pretty. Not so with this, now though with Mercedes engines - if you want a Mercedes buy one and save your money. Vantage was the low cost car, here we have heavy price inflation. Still if they are sold out......
NFC 85 Vette said:
... and for the first time is a viable alternative to a 911 (last time around, you ignored the performance deficit between the two). As a stepping stone to hotter variants of the Vantage, it's a great platform.
It's not the first time, unless the numbers are the most important thing. Also, I didn't have to ignore a performance deficit, because there wasn't one. The 997 was quicker than the 4.3 V8V, but I bought my 4.7L car in '09, when the 997.2 was new. There was effectively zero performance (acceleration) difference between a manual V8V and a manual 997S when you disregard the magazine tests' high-rev dump-the-clutch standing start -- which is meaningless in real life. The Porsche's rear-engine gives it greater traction off the line, so the 0 to whatever is quicker. Look at the 1/4 mile speeds, which are less dependent on the launch and cover a much wider spread of speed than the usual 0-60 or 62, and they're basically identical. More importantly, I don't want a Vantage to be a better 911 -- I want it to be a great Aston Martin. To me, the outgoing Vantage was a great Aston Martin, and the new car isn't.
Cold said:
Speedraser said:
For me, two parts must not be bought in or shared – the platform/structure and the engine. These make up the heart, soul and bones of a car. An Aston with a Mercedes heart simply is not -- cannot be -- an Aston Martin.
I quite like my Aston with its Lotus chassis and Ford engine. I also like the Volvo indicator stalks. The Italian gearbox, not so much. Still, it's an Aston Martin thoroughbred - apparently.
Speedraser said:
It's not the first time, unless the numbers are the most important thing. Also, I didn't have to ignore a performance deficit, because there wasn't one. The 997 was quicker than the 4.3 V8V, but I bought my 4.7L car in '09, when the 997.2 was new. There was effectively zero performance (acceleration) difference between a manual V8V and a manual 997S when you disregard the magazine tests' high-rev dump-the-clutch standing start -- which is meaningless in real life. The Porsche's rear-engine gives it greater traction off the line, so the 0 to whatever is quicker. Look at the 1/4 mile speeds, which are less dependent on the launch and cover a much wider spread of speed than the usual 0-60 or 62, and they're basically identical.
More importantly, I don't want a Vantage to be a better 911 -- I want it to be a great Aston Martin. To me, the outgoing Vantage was a great Aston Martin, and the new car isn't.
Oddly enough, despite my small inclination for 1/4 mile times[1], performance in respect of the Vantage / 911 / AMG GT etc tends to be centered more on handling. Very few owners go drag racing in their Vantage. A few Turbo S owners do, or at least until they're shown a clean pair of heels by something more bespoke for 1/4 mile work, and then they go home quietly. Horses for courses and all that.More importantly, I don't want a Vantage to be a better 911 -- I want it to be a great Aston Martin. To me, the outgoing Vantage was a great Aston Martin, and the new car isn't.
I appreciate you have a strong disliking of the direction Aston have taken with the new car (allergies toward AMG derived engines and so on). The new Vantage however, can harass an equivalent sports car at that price point, on a circuit, and that's something new, and something good. It might never see a race track during its ownership, but it speaks loudly for the cars dynamic abilities.
[1] Building and racing nitro Funny Cars and Fuel Altereds like I do, it's useful to know a little about drag racing
Carl_Manchester said:
I don't think people buy an Aston for 0-100 times.
I don't think most people buy a 911 for 0-100 times either, even the 911 Turbo.
I'd very much agree with that I don't think most people buy a 911 for 0-100 times either, even the 911 Turbo.
A Vantage (old style) is a lovely thing. A 911 is a great car. I personally couldn't give a flying fig if a 911 is a few tenths quicker to 60 or a hundred, or has the edge on track, I don't buy a car because of such vulgar comparisons
I also suspect the fortunate few who can afford to buy these cars new don't make a choice based on tenths of a second. Or being a bit 'sharper' on a race circuit.
On track I'm not racing other cars or showing someone else how quick I or my car might be. I'm just enjoying myself, and trying to be the best that I can at driving a car fast.
I also cringe with (almost every) write up on the new Vantage comparing it to a 911. They're both great cars, and if you can afford either, buy the one you like most... simples
Porsche911R said:
An single clutch 8 speed automatic !
How to ruin a other wise good car.
I also hate bespoke tyres.
A illiterate.How to ruin a other wise good car.
I also hate bespoke tyres.
The ZF 8HP is a spectacularly good gearbox and shifts faster than almost every DSG.
And bespoke tires is the norm for performance cars, and has been for a decade at least.
Dr Gitlin said:
Porsche911R said:
An single clutch 8 speed automatic !
How to ruin a other wise good car.
I also hate bespoke tyres.
A illiterate.How to ruin a other wise good car.
I also hate bespoke tyres.
The ZF 8HP is a spectacularly good gearbox and shifts faster than almost every DSG.
And bespoke tires is the norm for performance cars, and has been for a decade at least.
PhantomPH said:
Dr Gitlin said:
Porsche911R said:
An single clutch 8 speed automatic !
How to ruin a other wise good car.
I also hate bespoke tyres.
A illiterate.How to ruin a other wise good car.
I also hate bespoke tyres.
The ZF 8HP is a spectacularly good gearbox and shifts faster than almost every DSG.
And bespoke tires is the norm for performance cars, and has been for a decade at least.
Zod said:
PhantomPH said:
Dr Gitlin said:
Porsche911R said:
An single clutch 8 speed automatic !
How to ruin a other wise good car.
I also hate bespoke tyres.
A illiterate.How to ruin a other wise good car.
I also hate bespoke tyres.
The ZF 8HP is a spectacularly good gearbox and shifts faster than almost every DSG.
And bespoke tires is the norm for performance cars, and has been for a decade at least.
(For the record, I got that he/she must be American - that was actually the foundation of the joke...that was too subtle it seems!)
Speedraser said:
Oh please. If a VH car has a Lotus chassis, then an XK150 has a Model T chassis (steel ladder) and every 3-series shares its platform with every C-Class (and E and S, and every other steel monocoque car on the road). Ford engine -- again with this? Essentially every part of the 4.3/4.7 V8 is bespoke (block, crank, bearings, rods, pistons, rings, cams, valves, heads, etc.), unique to Aston, so why continue perpetuating the notion that Astons "have Ford engines"???
The source is still not agreed upon, but it does run through Egypt and ends up in the Med.PhantomPH said:
Being American doesn't make it right. Bloody foreigners coming over here and using their incorrect English.
(For the record, I got that he/she must be American - that was actually the foundation of the joke...that was too subtle it seems!)
Actually I am still a subject of Her Maj, but have been living and working in the US since 2002 and a few years ago realized it was time to change my spell checker and OS language to US English as I write for a living (for a US publication). Now it's just reflex to type tires instead of tyres. (For the record, I got that he/she must be American - that was actually the foundation of the joke...that was too subtle it seems!)
Dr Gitlin said:
PhantomPH said:
Being American doesn't make it right. Bloody foreigners coming over here and using their incorrect English.
(For the record, I got that he/she must be American - that was actually the foundation of the joke...that was too subtle it seems!)
Actually I am still a subject of Her Maj, but have been living and working in the US since 2002 and a few years ago realized it was time to change my spell checker and OS language to US English as I write for a living (for a US publication). Now it's just reflex to type tires instead of tyres. (For the record, I got that he/she must be American - that was actually the foundation of the joke...that was too subtle it seems!)
I’m a bit of an accent absorber, so I can’t really joke. I blame my acting background, but if I spend any reasonable amount of time surrounded with an accent that’s not my own, I start to pronounce certain words or phrases like a local. Like a reverse Julio Geordio.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49097993
Maybe if they had not produced such a Japanese fugly car for their mainstream car and priced it so high ?
Maybe if they had not produced such a Japanese fugly car for their mainstream car and priced it so high ?
I think they would acknowledge they are late to the party in having the ubiquitous SUV offering and do so without the backing of a huge brand behind them. As such, they have little leeway in how to react to the market. They come at it late when the market/economic conditions may be at a different point in the economic curve. Sadly, a lot like JLR?
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