Are these Vloggers just a scam? SOL or Shmee etc? (Vol 2)

[Beefmeister]

jon- said:

All my friends got into cryptocurrency around 4 months ago as the hype train exploded. That's gone REALLY well for them

A client offered to pay me his £3000 owed in Bitcoin 4yrs ago. I turned my nose up at it and asked for normal money.

Still kicking myself over that one.....

(That was 6 Bitcoin. They're now worth £35k)

Edited by Beefmeister on Monday 16th April 12:34

[e30m3Mark]

Tim1989 said:

jon- said:

"Supercar Investment Club charge a 6% initial fee, a 1% fee over three years and take 15% of any gross profits on sale."

So 75k initial, 12.5k / year for three years and then X on the profit.

In three years it will be interesting to see where the interest rates are, and how the super car prices have reacted.

I suspect most people putting money in won't see much of their initial 'investment' back, let alone a good return.

Yes, but they're living the experience of owning an F40! Admittedly you don't get to see, touch, smell or drive it but you could get a key ring and, more importantly, tell people how you 'own' an F40! I mean that has to be worth £500 doesn't it?

[WarrenB]

e30m3Mark said:

Yes, but they're living the experience of owning an F40! Admittedly you don't get to see, touch, smell or drive it but you could get a key ring and, more importantly, tell people how you 'own' an F40! I mean that has to be worth £500 doesn't it?

Or, just not invest, and tell people you have an F40 anyway.

Won't be much difference, except you won't lose your 'investment' when things go tits up.

[akirk]

e30m3Mark said:

Tim1989 said:

jon- said:

"Supercar Investment Club charge a 6% initial fee, a 1% fee over three years and take 15% of any gross profits on sale."

So 75k initial, 12.5k / year for three years and then X on the profit.

In three years it will be interesting to see where the interest rates are, and how the super car prices have reacted.

I suspect most people putting money in won't see much of their initial 'investment' back, let alone a good return.

Yes, but they're living the experience of owning an F40! Admittedly you don't get to see, touch, smell or drive it but you could get a key ring and, more importantly, tell people how you 'own' an F40! I mean that has to be worth £500 doesn't it?

rather like those people who buy a 'Lord of the Manor' and then put Lord on their passport / bank cards / etc.

like any of these things - if you can afford to lose the money, then you are probably not the person who will invest - which means that most of those who do, perhaps can't really afford it...

[ashleyman]

Beefmeister said:

A client offered to pay me his £3000 owed in Bitcoin 4yrs ago. I turned my nose up at it and asked for normal money.

Still kicking myself over that one.....

(That was 6 Bitcoin. They're now worth £35k)

Edited by Beefmeister on Monday 16th April 12:34

My brother in law bought 2 Bitcoin in December 2013. I think he sold them when they were at £7000 each.

I was going to 'mine' it when that was a fun thing to do but never bothered.

[anonymous-user]

Mr-B said:

trowelhead said:

Schemes like this popping up usually are a strong signal of the top of a market cycle

Just like in the "old days" when your barber/cab driver started giving you stock trading tips it was definitely the time to short the market. That's what this is, 2 novices who have no investment experience background touting "investments" - run!

Yes but you forget TGE is a very successful city boy and so he knows about these things and so it’s all legit and a great idea. Innit.

Alternatively his career in rhe back office whilst well paid qualifies him about as much my mum’s dog to provide investment advice.

[NickCQ]

Shmee said:

jon- said:

"Supercar Investment Club charge a 6% initial fee, a 1% fee over three years and take 15% of any gross profits on sale."

So 75k initial, 12.5k / year for three years and then X on the profit.

In three years it will be interesting to see where the interest rates are, and how the super car prices have reacted.

Sounds like it would need a major uplift from an already very high starting point to make any kind of returns.

Yes. I wonder how much the promoters are co-investing in this scheme themselves.
I would imagine they have hardly any skin in the game. they make their money from the fees alone, any profit sharing (the 15%) is upside.

[akirk]

Brooking10 said:

Mr-B said:

trowelhead said:

Schemes like this popping up usually are a strong signal of the top of a market cycle

Just like in the "old days" when your barber/cab driver started giving you stock trading tips it was definitely the time to short the market. That's what this is, 2 novices who have no investment experience background touting "investments" - run!

Yes but you forget TGE is a very successful city boy and so he knows about these things and so it’s all legit and a great idea. Innit.

Alternatively his career in rhe back office whilst well paid qualifies him about as much my mum’s dog to provide investment advice.

He also needs to be very careful - not going to watch the video, but if there is any suggestion of providing investment advice in what he says, and it all goes wrong, he could be in a very precarious position...

[Tim1989]

akirk said:

He also needs to be very careful - not going to watch the video, but if there is any suggestion of providing investment advice in what he says, and it all goes wrong, he could be in a very precarious position...

I've watched it. I'm not in that sector of the market so my knowledge is limited but I think he probably is ok on that score. It's not given as investment advice per se, more as a 'wonderful opportunity'.

Where he does sail very close to the wind (as far as I can see it) is in terms of how the video is presented. Essentially it's a 15 minute long advert dressed up as a 'normal' TGE video. I'm also pretty skeptical about his claims of putting his own money in. I'd certainly like to know whether he was paid for the video, I suspect yes.

I wonder whether the ASA will ever really start to bite into YouTube.

[akirk]

Tim1989 said:

I've watched it. I'm not in that sector of the market so my knowledge is limited but I think he probably is ok on that score. It's not given as investment advice per se, more as a 'wonderful opportunity'.

Which is exactly what might catch him out - he could very much be seen as advising his viewers to make an investment - I suspect that there will be little doubt that the video could be the reason someone goes out and 'invests' in this - if someone is seen to be a respected person on social media, followed by many, then they have to be more careful with their wording - if he doesn't tell viewers to go and take financial advice first / mention that they could also lose their money / that investments can go down as well as up / etc. then he is potentially giving unregulated investment advice...

describing something as a wonderful opportunity is I think just semantics - the wording doesn't really matter... it is what he is trying to do...

the other issues around disguised advertising etc. are also issues, but I suspect less of an issue...

[waremark]

akirk said:

describing something as a wonderful opportunity is I think just semantics - the wording doesn't really matter... it is what he is trying to do...

the other issues around disguised advertising etc. are also issues, but I suspect less of an issue...

Is this a potentially regulated investment? I would have expected investment in a car to be completely unregulated, although it could become regulated depending on the structure used. If he was paid in cash or kind he should at least have declared that. I suppose people who infringe on this can be banned by YT, but is it in YT's interest to do this?

The upside of investing £500 in this is that you can't lose more than £500 - rather less than the most you could lose if you actually bought an F40!

[jon-]

Tim, thoughts on this?

He definitely didn't check the paid promotion box for at least the first 36 hours, but it is checked now.

jon- said:

James latest video is rather good, but he's not ticked that "paid promotion box" inspite of essentially admitting it at the start - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rus67C44inE&t=...

His last one with Michelin didn't have the box ticked for the first 24-48 hours, then at some point it did. I wonder if he's found a nice little way out of all the negativity it brings.

[e30m3Mark]

waremark said:

The upside of investing £500 in this is that you can't lose more than £500 - rather less than the most you could lose if you actually bought an F40!

I don't see many people losing on them though and as an added bonus, you get to sit in and drive the thing if you want too.

[roystinho]

dannyDC2 said:

roystinho said:

johnwilliams77 said:

Dannys latest video at 12:12....

Nice vid too!

On some great roads too. Frequent up there quite often for a blast

Cheers! Did my best to keep that video on the right side of the law.

What was the village near with the speed camera though? Didn’t recognise it... often see one on the road between Menwith Hill and Otley... you know, just as a precaution

[AyBee]

The biggest issue with SIC is that if no profitable offers are received for the supercar after the 3 year period and other investors voted against selling at a loss, and there was no secondary market for my share, I'd be locked into the investment indefinitely?" - nobody is going to want to lose money, so essentially, unless it makes money in 3 years' time, you're going to have all your money stuck until it makes money - that's going to cost the fund in maintenance costs etc and eventually your investment will be eaten up.

[Tim1989]

jon- said:

Jon,

This is another example of where the ASA doesn't seem to have moved with the times. These are fully paid up promotional videos masquerading as the usual content of the Youtubers. It's similar on Instagram as well with a variety of products.

In an ideal world they should have to declare the involvement, disclose how much they are being paid to promote the product and make it obvious on the video and in comments that it is a paid promotion. I know there are the guidelines already in place but hardly anyone seems to use them, and there seem to be no repercussions.

Judging by the comments on the TGE videos, this promotion does work. My worry is that people can be taken in by the videos, thinking that their favourite Youtuber is personally endorsing these products.

[ashleyman]

I have no idea if it's real time but I've just checked the funding status of the F40.

When I posted this morning it was at £54,000. It's now at £66,000.

[NickCQ]

waremark said:

Is this a potentially regulated investment? I would have expected investment in a car to be completely unregulated, although it could become regulated depending on the structure used.

AFAIK marketing pretty much any kind of investment product to retail customers is regulated, regardless of what the underlying collateral is. The protections for the regular consumer are strong.

[Shmee]

jon- said:

Tim, thoughts on this?

He definitely didn't check the paid promotion box for at least the first 36 hours, but it is checked now.

jon- said:

James latest video is rather good, but he's not ticked that "paid promotion box" inspite of essentially admitting it at the start - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rus67C44inE&t=...

His last one with Michelin didn't have the box ticked for the first 24-48 hours, then at some point it did. I wonder if he's found a nice little way out of all the negativity it brings.

I think generally speaking and keeping it to a very low level, it's simple: if money hits the bank account then you tick the Paid Promotion box. There are millions of combinations that sit in a grey area that haven't been clearly defined and there just isn't a process for them yet, but to focus just on that point then it's not really that hard to get it right.

[akirk]

NickCQ said:

waremark said:

Is this a potentially regulated investment? I would have expected investment in a car to be completely unregulated, although it could become regulated depending on the structure used.

AFAIK marketing pretty much any kind of investment product to retail customers is regulated, regardless of what the underlying collateral is. The protections for the regular consumer are strong.

Don't think so...
If you go to: https://www.fca.org.uk/scamsmart there is an interesting drop down list of areas which might be scam investments (some I had never considered!) now, cars are not in that list - but wine is, and perhaps there are similarities - so fill in the questions and it says that Wine is not regulated, yet that is presumably a similar 'investment' product sold to retail customers - so presumably it is quite possible to have unregulated products sold in this way...