DIY mechanics take care....neighbour squished under car!
Discussion
motco said:
Manufacturers specify four points where a jack can be used quite often. Where can a support be placed to supplement a jack when the jack is already occupying the jacking point? Those skilled in the art may find a suitable alternative location, but it isn't always obvious just what may, or may not, cause damage.
That's true to an extent, but anyone who is competent enough to be under a car working on it should be competent enough to be able to identify a strong enough point to place a stand or other support. I always seem to manage this with my Mercedes which seems to be made entirely out of undertrays.Long and short of it (for me) is if you can't identify suitable points to place supports such as axle stands (manufacturer specified or not) then you should not be under a car working on it.
deltashad said:
If this can happen why don't they fit locking pins?
It doesnt actually say the lift failed, just that the car fell from it. They also go into some detail about the rubber pads having been changed the day before which suggests that tje car may have simply slipped. Garage lifts usualy do have some kind of mechanical locking system if they are hydraulic.J4CKO said:
Get really nervous under a car unless it has stands, a wheels and my ramps with a piece of scaffolding plank on it.
Partly common sense, and partly having been under our Fiat 500, old style having removed the engine, was taking the gear linkage off and an older lady decided to turn round and oartly reversed up our drive and pushed the Fiat back, the car moved first on the axle stands, then the stands slid, I have never moved so fast and scooted out and shouted at her. She initially denied hitting it, then when I showed her the scuff from the overider on her paint she told me I shouldn’t hide the car behind the hedge !
I pointed out it was not hidden, it’s rear end was up in the air and it is my drive, not a communal turning spot, off she went, unrepentant.
Contrary to the old tales about two chaps being able to carry one like it’s made of Balsa wood, it’s still a car, light by car standards, but still well over half a tonne, 500 kilos plus and the world bench press record is a little under that so unlikely most of us can knock out ten reps, even without an engine, imagine the ignominy of being squashed by a small crappy Fiat ?
Use the proper gear, and have a backup, best to not wish you had when it’s on top of you, too late by then.
What a stupid bPartly common sense, and partly having been under our Fiat 500, old style having removed the engine, was taking the gear linkage off and an older lady decided to turn round and oartly reversed up our drive and pushed the Fiat back, the car moved first on the axle stands, then the stands slid, I have never moved so fast and scooted out and shouted at her. She initially denied hitting it, then when I showed her the scuff from the overider on her paint she told me I shouldn’t hide the car behind the hedge !
I pointed out it was not hidden, it’s rear end was up in the air and it is my drive, not a communal turning spot, off she went, unrepentant.
Contrary to the old tales about two chaps being able to carry one like it’s made of Balsa wood, it’s still a car, light by car standards, but still well over half a tonne, 500 kilos plus and the world bench press record is a little under that so unlikely most of us can knock out ten reps, even without an engine, imagine the ignominy of being squashed by a small crappy Fiat ?
Use the proper gear, and have a backup, best to not wish you had when it’s on top of you, too late by then.
h. Not much more to say really, but I bet you wish you could’ve smashed her car up or something. It really pees me off when people use my drive as a turning spot. She could’ve knocked it onto you, not have noticed or cared, killed you, then just driven off home. Edited by Douglas Quaid on Wednesday 18th April 21:29
Mr2Mike said:
deltashad said:
If this can happen why don't they fit locking pins?
It doesnt actually say the lift failed, just that the car fell from it. They also go into some detail about the rubber pads having been changed the day before which suggests that tje car may have simply slipped. Garage lifts usualy do have some kind of mechanical locking system if they are hydraulic.The only way a car can really fall off one is if it wasn't properly lifted.
Mr2Mike said:
TooMany2cvs said:
Two post lifts have brakes to stop them lowering accidentally - they "ratchet" audibly as they go up, .
Not all. Hydraulic ones do (since even a minor hydraulic failure could be catastrophic) but the screw driven lifts don't need ratchets.Always astounds me how many folks are happy to work using just a jack - a widowmaker at that!
When my mx5 is off the ground I have a stand on each corner in the prescribed places, a stand on the rear diff and another under the front cross member.
Then I put the wheels under the box sections.
Yea, if multiple stands fail it comes down it might crush those box sections, but I would survive.
Also, side note, I'm even paranoid about sticking my head in a wheel arch with a wheel off. Brake discs could make a nasty mess of my head if everything fell.
ONly time I make a point of being super safe is when I'm alone working on my car!
When my mx5 is off the ground I have a stand on each corner in the prescribed places, a stand on the rear diff and another under the front cross member.
Then I put the wheels under the box sections.
Yea, if multiple stands fail it comes down it might crush those box sections, but I would survive.
Also, side note, I'm even paranoid about sticking my head in a wheel arch with a wheel off. Brake discs could make a nasty mess of my head if everything fell.
ONly time I make a point of being super safe is when I'm alone working on my car!
Why are so many people struggling to find places to jack? My car has front and rear tow eyes, attached to big metal beams, can jack the front and rear via the towing eyes or the beams they attach to easily, thought all cars have these.
I use the Halfords trolley jack, 2 axle stands and 2 chock kit to do oil changes and stuff. I plan to use said kit to waxoyl the car soon but these reports of things failing has me worried. I already dislike going under the car.
I use the Halfords trolley jack, 2 axle stands and 2 chock kit to do oil changes and stuff. I plan to use said kit to waxoyl the car soon but these reports of things failing has me worried. I already dislike going under the car.
Please folks stop recommending trolley jacks - this kinda shows your lack of knowledge on the subject in hand.
Any serviceable trolley jack will do the job because all it has to do is lift the car to the point where you can support it on decent quality axle stands (obviously assuming it can lift the weight of the car etc).
Once at the chosen height, drop the car down onto the axle stand. I always leave the trolley jack in place as a second line of defense if possible. I also always put the wheel under the sill as a third line of defense. Don't forget to chock the wheels as well because a car can easily shift forwards or backwards and roll of an axle stand.
Any serviceable trolley jack will do the job because all it has to do is lift the car to the point where you can support it on decent quality axle stands (obviously assuming it can lift the weight of the car etc).
Once at the chosen height, drop the car down onto the axle stand. I always leave the trolley jack in place as a second line of defense if possible. I also always put the wheel under the sill as a third line of defense. Don't forget to chock the wheels as well because a car can easily shift forwards or backwards and roll of an axle stand.
Douglas Quaid said:
J4CKO said:
Get really nervous under a car unless it has stands, a wheels and my ramps with a piece of scaffolding plank on it.
Partly common sense, and partly having been under our Fiat 500, old style having removed the engine, was taking the gear linkage off and an older lady decided to turn round and oartly reversed up our drive and pushed the Fiat back, the car moved first on the axle stands, then the stands slid, I have never moved so fast and scooted out and shouted at her. She initially denied hitting it, then when I showed her the scuff from the overider on her paint she told me I shouldn’t hide the car behind the hedge !
I pointed out it was not hidden, it’s rear end was up in the air and it is my drive, not a communal turning spot, off she went, unrepentant.
Contrary to the old tales about two chaps being able to carry one like it’s made of Balsa wood, it’s still a car, light by car standards, but still well over half a tonne, 500 kilos plus and the world bench press record is a little under that so unlikely most of us can knock out ten reps, even without an engine, imagine the ignominy of being squashed by a small crappy Fiat ?
Use the proper gear, and have a backup, best to not wish you had when it’s on top of you, too late by then.
What a stupid bPartly common sense, and partly having been under our Fiat 500, old style having removed the engine, was taking the gear linkage off and an older lady decided to turn round and oartly reversed up our drive and pushed the Fiat back, the car moved first on the axle stands, then the stands slid, I have never moved so fast and scooted out and shouted at her. She initially denied hitting it, then when I showed her the scuff from the overider on her paint she told me I shouldn’t hide the car behind the hedge !
I pointed out it was not hidden, it’s rear end was up in the air and it is my drive, not a communal turning spot, off she went, unrepentant.
Contrary to the old tales about two chaps being able to carry one like it’s made of Balsa wood, it’s still a car, light by car standards, but still well over half a tonne, 500 kilos plus and the world bench press record is a little under that so unlikely most of us can knock out ten reps, even without an engine, imagine the ignominy of being squashed by a small crappy Fiat ?
Use the proper gear, and have a backup, best to not wish you had when it’s on top of you, too late by then.
h. Not much more to say really, but I bet you wish you could’ve smashed her car up or something. It really pees me off when people use my drive as a turning spot. She could’ve knocked it onto you, not have noticed or cared, killed you, then just driven off home. Edited by Douglas Quaid on Wednesday 18th April 21:29
Bear in mind it was light anyway, had no engine in it and was properly supported on axle stands, but I still nearly got caught out, now I am not sure whether it would have killed me but given it still weight 430 kilos sans drivetrain I dont fancy my chances, I have scared myself lifting 100 kilos on a bench press and then realising I was struggling to get it back up having bitten off more than I could chew so even a tiny car missing an engine is a big, big problem.
So, dont ever leave it to chance, throw whatever you can under a car you are working on, and dont hide them behind hedges on you own drive
Mr2Mike said:
TooMany2cvs said:
Two post lifts have brakes to stop them lowering accidentally - they "ratchet" audibly as they go up, .
Not all. Hydraulic ones do (since even a minor hydraulic failure could be catastrophic) but the screw driven lifts don't need ratchets.The screw type would seem to be failsafe but as mate can attest once the nut (in the arms) gets worn the ramp can free fall without warning - luckily only one side fell and it jammed against the other arm, the car slipped but wasn't damaged - it was interesting trying to get it down.
Dr Doofenshmirtz said:
Please folks stop recommending trolley jacks - this kinda shows your lack of knowledge on the subject in hand.
How does it?Trolley jacks come in a multitude of different designs, with different features that make them more suitable for different applications and easier to use in some situations. For instance, a jack with the release built into the handle - rather than having to remove the handly and use is to turn a separate knob - is generally a bit nicer to use, so I'd recommend one like that.
InitialDave said:
How does it?
Trolley jacks come in a multitude of different designs, with different features that make them more suitable for different applications and easier to use in some situations. For instance, a jack with the release built into the handle - rather than having to remove the handly and use is to turn a separate knob - is generally a bit nicer to use, so I'd recommend one like that.
How much more would you pay for that privilege? I dont like the sound of that if the release trigger is on the handle. What if you're under your car on a road (if you have no drive or drive isnt level) and some idiot kid walks past and squeezes the release trigger because it looks cool.Trolley jacks come in a multitude of different designs, with different features that make them more suitable for different applications and easier to use in some situations. For instance, a jack with the release built into the handle - rather than having to remove the handly and use is to turn a separate knob - is generally a bit nicer to use, so I'd recommend one like that.
EazyDuz said:
How much more would you pay for that privilege? I dont like the sound of that if the release trigger is on the handle. What if you're under your car on a road (if you have no drive or drive isnt level) and some idiot kid walks past and squeezes the release trigger because it looks cool.
Well, it wouldn't do anythign, because you're not an idiot who doesn't use axle stands, are you?My one that does it is a knob on the end of the lever, hard to mess with accidentally (and a mischevious kid is unlikely to match the grip strength I closed it with anyway).
InitialDave said:
Well, it wouldn't do anythign, because you're not an idiot who doesn't use axle stands, are you?
My one that does it is a knob on the end of the lever, hard to mess with accidentally (and a mischevious kid is unlikely to match the grip strength I closed it with anyway).
How much extra would you pay for that feature? My one that does it is a knob on the end of the lever, hard to mess with accidentally (and a mischevious kid is unlikely to match the grip strength I closed it with anyway).
EazyDuz said:
How much extra would you pay for that feature?
Well, the jack in question probably cost a couple of hundred pounds, but it's quite a large one (I needed something with a good high lift). I could get a smaller one with it for under a hundred without too much bother, but I'd likely spend a little more for one of the low-profile ones if I were buying another jack.So you could argue I'd be spending another £80 or so for it, on the basis you can get a boggo trolley jack for twenty quid, but my twenty quid one wasn't great for build quality, so I can't say I'd buy another one. I'd be looking at more like the £50 range as a baseline anyway. Let's say I'd spend another £50 for the other one. Not just because of the release mechanism, though. Some of the more expensive ones come with the flat rubberised saddles rather than the metal "cup" ones, too, which seems more useful on most modern cars, so that's a plus. Similar complaint with a lot of axle stands, actually. They're still shaped for, well, axles, and arean't as great a fit on a lot of cars that'd suit a narrow slot for the sill seam, like most oem scissor jacks have.
Anyway. I'm not really sure how much I'm willing to pay for different kinds of jack matters to anyone else. The point was simply that there are perfectly sensible reasons for people to recommend a given type over another.
V8RX7 said:
The screw type would seem to be failsafe but as mate can attest once the nut (in the arms) gets worn the ramp can free fall without warning - luckily only one side fell and it jammed against the other arm, the car slipped but wasn't damaged - it was interesting trying to get it down.
Yes, worn out nuts (fnar) is a problem on screw lifts that are not properly maintained. Since they tend to be so reliable, they often just get used without a second thought about wear.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff