Manual Vs Automatic??
Discussion
Frank7 said:
Yes DD, I am aware of that, the Forum name is a bit of a give away, and in all sincerity, I appreciate that you felt the need to point this out to me.
The facts are that I’m only too aware of that, as other well meaning PH contributors have pointed it out to me in the past, and I’ll give you the same truthful answer.
There are many other interesting facets on this Forum, not just things to do with motoring.
After spending virtually all my working life with a steering wheel in my hand, for a long time a 44 ton articulated truck, for a longer time a London Black Cab, I have absolutely zero desire to ever drive anything, ever again.
My wife drives a one year old Peugeot 2008 automatic, which she bought brand new.
Whenever we go out, you’ll find me in the back, like the Lord of the Manor, reading the paper, unless she puts a gun to my head, and says, “Frank, I really don’t feel like driving, do me a solid, and take the wheel for once.”
Cue an attack of bear with a sore head syndrome, but I do it, because I love her.
If her Peugeot wasn’t an auto, I may have taken the chance that her gun would misfire.
Hi Frank.The facts are that I’m only too aware of that, as other well meaning PH contributors have pointed it out to me in the past, and I’ll give you the same truthful answer.
There are many other interesting facets on this Forum, not just things to do with motoring.
After spending virtually all my working life with a steering wheel in my hand, for a long time a 44 ton articulated truck, for a longer time a London Black Cab, I have absolutely zero desire to ever drive anything, ever again.
My wife drives a one year old Peugeot 2008 automatic, which she bought brand new.
Whenever we go out, you’ll find me in the back, like the Lord of the Manor, reading the paper, unless she puts a gun to my head, and says, “Frank, I really don’t feel like driving, do me a solid, and take the wheel for once.”
Cue an attack of bear with a sore head syndrome, but I do it, because I love her.
If her Peugeot wasn’t an auto, I may have taken the chance that her gun would misfire.
Fair play for articulating why you don't like driving if you don't have to, and why automatics make a lot of sense when cars are viewed as appliances of necessity. I doubt I'd get excited about lawnmowers, or washing machines, for example.
However, understand that because nearly everyone on PistonHeads *is* a car enthusiast, most replies in this topic will be from people who view cars and their gearboxes as topics they're enthusiastic about. Replies may not be reflective of the general population.
Though I am an enthusiast, the gearbox in my Skoda (manual) was chosen because I plan to keep it for a while and I don't trust the longevity of VW's DSG gearbox. I enjoy driving it, but it's the estate car my wife and baby sit in and my enthusiasm was a long way down the list of priorities when I went shopping for a car.
If I ever get our garage empty enough to house the two-seater car I'd like when our family's not the major concern, the gearbox will become a major talking point along the lines of this thread.
Edited by blearyeyedboy on Sunday 22 April 11:41
kambites said:
schmalex said:
The reality is when you are trundling to Tesco behind a queue of traffic (which, face it, is 99% of driving), it doesn’t matter which you have in your car
If that's 99% of your driving I pitty you and can fully understand why you'd want an automatic.schmalex said:
God there’s some drivel written in this thread by the driving gods 
The reality is when you are trundling to Tesco behind a queue of traffic (which, face it, is 99% of driving), it doesn’t matter which you have in your car
My view is opposite. When you're driving a challenging road in a performance car there is plenty to engage you. It can be fun with paddles. When you're trundling to Tesco there is less to engage you. In a manual there is engagement and satisfaction to be had from perfect gear changes and never being caught in the wrong gear at a roundabout. The reality is when you are trundling to Tesco behind a queue of traffic (which, face it, is 99% of driving), it doesn’t matter which you have in your car
AC43 said:
And slushers don't suit every engine. Last year I tried a MINI Cooper S (R53) auto. It didn't really work as the engine wanted to rev and the box couldn't keep up with it.
A DSG would have suited it nicely (for city driving).
Ford have developed an 8-speed torque converter to go with the 1.0L Ecoboost in the forthcoming Focus. As part of this they have created a real-time torque sensor on the shaft, as opposed to the usual method involving estimation. Will be interesting to see how it drives.A DSG would have suited it nicely (for city driving).
AC43 said:
And slushers don't suit every engine. Last year I tried a MINI Cooper S (R53) auto. It didn't really work as the engine wanted to rev and the box couldn't keep up with it.
I felt similar with my E90 330i and for me the Auto didn't suit the engine at all. Its an engine that loves revs and the Auto was a clumsy match. No doubting that modern autos, like the PDK etc, are technically brilliant. I just don't find them as much fun, or as satisfying when I get a downshift and heel and toe 'just right'. That feeling where I know it has been my input that has allowed the mechanicals to work as I wish. A specific moment when I am in control. It may not be the fastest gear change and it certainly won't be the easiest, but it's a part of driving and the interaction with my car, thanks to skill I learnt and a degree of mechanical sympathy gained through experience. It's for those reasons I would take a manual over an auto but that's just personal choice. 
Before I bought an auto (2nd car is still a manual), I managed to achieve clutchless gear changes on a manual. Now, I agree that is satisfying, albeit an unnecessary skill.
Now, pedal cycles? The elite road bikes have derailleur gears that allow/require you to keep pedalling (as opposed to hub gears)
Motorcycles, I remember the ‘slip-and-shift’ foot pedal only facilities on some bikes in the 70s. That allowed you to forget about the clutch lever.
Also, any views on autos on motorbikes? I am sure some Met Police/Special Escort groups have these, thus allowing lots of arm waving to direct traffic.
Now, pedal cycles? The elite road bikes have derailleur gears that allow/require you to keep pedalling (as opposed to hub gears)
Motorcycles, I remember the ‘slip-and-shift’ foot pedal only facilities on some bikes in the 70s. That allowed you to forget about the clutch lever.
Also, any views on autos on motorbikes? I am sure some Met Police/Special Escort groups have these, thus allowing lots of arm waving to direct traffic.
Olivera said:
More control? You can't block change in an auto. You can't hold the current gear at the limiter in most autos. You can't clutch kick.
That's three examples off the top of my head that you can't do in the vast majority of autos. I'm sure there's more.
Block changing is irrelevant with such quick changing boxesThat's three examples off the top of my head that you can't do in the vast majority of autos. I'm sure there's more.
Can't see why you would want to hold a gear AT the limiter, but you can with most performance autos anyway.
Clutch kick I'll give you.... But if you are using that on a public highway, I'd suggest you have bigger issues
Red 5 said:
In general, all the subtle polish and precision is removed from driving. The dozens of techniques to learn with auto boxes, actually make them way more tiresome and boring than “Just pressing a clutch”
Auto mode / stick / paddle / combinations of all three, in eco, sport, sport+ blah blah....
Those are mostly irrelevant for the gearbox, and for those that do affect the box, they are optional. I get a lot of why people don't like autos, but to say they are more harder to drive/learn is a little farcical IMO.Auto mode / stick / paddle / combinations of all three, in eco, sport, sport+ blah blah....
DoubleD said:
We order online and Tesco deliver. Not sure if their vans are auto or manual though.
Their vans are autos, they come up for sale on ebay now and again, always autos. I think up until 2014 they were horrible automated manuals, but I think the newer ones are real 8 speed autos.In related news I was reading the other day that 2018 could be the first year ever that more automatics are sold in the UK than manuals.
Whew, 8 pages of convo to read through! thanks for all the input. I've taken all your advice and gone out and driven a Scirocco 2.0 TDI DSG automatic and... I love it! I do live in a built up area close to a city where I am faced with traffic each morning and both cars were fluid, smooth and fun to drive. I do like manuals and I've always taken pride that I was taught to change gears properly without grabbing the gear stick and jerking it around etc, just gently nudging it into place and making smooth, non grindy gear changes for a long time. I obviously don't want to lose that timing, however technology has come along so far that there's no need to do that anymore. It makes gear changes more efficiently than I ever could and improves fuel efficiency too. Like some people have said they prefer a manual and would never touch an auto and I can see why they would say that and appreciate why. However for my requirements I've taken the decision to go to an Automatic. The Scirocco DSG gear boxes are meant to be top notch so hopefully i'll have a pleasant experience with it. Thanks all again for the imput
AngryChimp241 said:
Whew, 8 pages of convo to read through! thanks for all the input. I've taken all your advice and gone out and driven a Scirocco 2.0 TDI DSG automatic and... I love it! I do live in a built up area close to a city where I am faced with traffic each morning and both cars were fluid, smooth and fun to drive. I do like manuals and I've always taken pride that I was taught to change gears properly without grabbing the gear stick and jerking it around etc, just gently nudging it into place and making smooth, non grindy gear changes for a long time. I obviously don't want to lose that timing, however technology has come along so far that there's no need to do that anymore. It makes gear changes more efficiently than I ever could and improves fuel efficiency too. Like some people have said they prefer a manual and would never touch an auto and I can see why they would say that and appreciate why. However for my requirements I've taken the decision to go to an Automatic. The Scirocco DSG gear boxes are meant to be top notch so hopefully i'll have a pleasant experience with it. Thanks all again for the imput
Good choice I was initially a bit worried about having DSG when driving at low speeds. I was told by many that it can be quite jerky, but i haven't experienced that at all. It's actually surprisingly smooth for a dual-clutch.
If/when it's time to drive a manual again, for whatever reason, whether it be temporarily or permanently, you should be able to revert back almost instantly without much fuss. Like someone said, it's like riding a bike.
Perhaps a slightly amusing tale..... The first automatic I drove was a double decker full of people! I'd not long passed my PSV in the olden days on a non synchro Bristol, and apart from a brief drive in a semi automatic, that was training. All went well though as I rapidly worked out what PRND etc. meant. I've always had manuals and thought of changing gear as a skill, but I've driven all sorts and modern automatics are very good indeed.
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