Cars taking on bikes (again)

[av185]

MrGman said:

Why are these car vs bike threads always about what's fastest?

I've done many laps of the ring in some very fast cars, one of my most memorable was in a 120hp suzuki swift.

Yep the rapidity of many contemporary cars has in many cases diluted the driving involvement. And any idiot can flatter themselves making them look a good driver in a 650bhp+ flappy paddle gearbox car with its fake farty exhausts and all its electronic wizardry and systems mollycoddling the driver.

Trouble is you can only defy the laws of physics to a specific level and when these are breached things often go wrong rather quickly and there is no going back.

But a number of car manufacturers have recently returned to a slightly 'back to basics' ethos in recognition that driving involvement and enjoyment are want the customer wants from their car and not just outright power and speed producing driving detachment.

Increased proper cabin noise, less sound insulation, 'manuel' gearboxes, skinnier tyres in some cases, restricted driving systems with less electronic intervention can only be a good thing.

This is the way forward in our increasingly diluted driving world.

[Gad-Westy]

Zetec-S said:

Gad-Westy said:

av185 said:

BrassMan said:

av185 said:

Question is if someone enjoys fast bikes and fast cars in equal measures which would be the preferred 'weapon' of choice on superb driving/riding roads like these?

On a day like that? There isn't a car in the world that would get me off my bike.

Summer maybe.

Winter/early Spring as in those shots, definitely the rapid car.

Where is the first pic? Can't place it.

My guess, Kylesku:

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@58.2539591,-5.02626...

Looks like it thanks. Not ventured quite that far north yet.

[CABC]

Rawwr said:

Pistonheads is just a place you can go on the Internet to play Top Trumps. Person A will compare a set of numbers to Person B's set of numbers and the best set of numbers win. This often results in Person B telling Person A he's a fat bender. Enjoyment and feeling cannot be expressed in numbers and thus are irrelevant to the proceedings.

"I really like my bike, it feels amazing in corners!"
"A car is faster through the corner, though."
"Yes but I'm saying that the bike feels fantastic."
"The car is faster, though."
"I don't think you understand what I'm saying. I'm saying the bike feels really good despite being slower."
"I totally understand what you're saying but the car is faster."

you can also replace 'bike' with 'car B'.
or indeed 'car' for 'bike B'.
same point.

i think in the real world things are little different amongst enthusiasts. it's ph that's skewed.

[jimPH]

MrGman said:

Why are these car vs bike threads always about what's fastest?

I've done many laps of the ring in some very fast cars, one of my most memorable was in a 120hp suzuki swift.

Is this the rent 4ring Swift's. The ones with about 8k of suspension tweaks (ohlins etc) and specific nurburgring geometry.

[MrGman]

jimPH said:

Is this the rent 4ring Swift's. The ones with about 8k of suspension tweaks (ohlins etc) and specific nurburgring geometry.

it was a basic spec one, bilstein dampers (few hundred quid) some toyos and a seat and cage so nothing to fancy.

But it's still a slow car, which was my point, something doesn't have to be mega fast to be fun!

Edited by MrGman on Thursday 26th April 12:48

[Kewy]

DJP said:

av185 said:

Try a different real road

Now that looks a fine biking road.

If only that white goods German car would get out of the way...

Is that Black Mountain Pass in Wales?

[blade7]

av185 said:

'manuel' gearboxes

.

[Gad-Westy]

Kewy said:

DJP said:

av185 said:

Try a different real road

Now that looks a fine biking road.

If only that white goods German car would get out of the way...

Is that Black Mountain Pass in Wales?

Think so. A4069.

[budd]

av185 said:

You can't have been trying too hard.......On most challenging roads the M4 is anything but planted and stable. The bloated and lardy 1595 kg M4 is severely compromised by its flawed and inert handling making the car a major handful on challenging roads and particularly so in the wet .......as further confirmed by the Evo magazine test 2017.

In contrast, a properly driven car such as a certain 911s...GT3, RS, GT2 even a heavier and non track focused and compromised Turbo S kills most faster bikes on the majority of UK roads dry or wet all other things being equal.

Edited by av185 on Tuesday 24th April 05:18

I'm glad you added the Turbo S kills 'most' faster bikes because it most certainly won't 'kill' a S1000RR HP4 by way of comparison simply look at 1/4 mile times (which I guess is a good illustration of basic performance) Porsche 10.5 @ 128, BMW 9.5 @155 there's a young guy in the states Jeremy Teasly who runs 8.75s 1/4 mile on a pretty standard S1000RR (not even the HP4 version) so in simple terms the bike is so much quicker on a dry UK road the Porsche would see where the BMW had gone.

[Rawwr]

budd said:

I'm glad you added the Turbo S kills 'most' faster bikes because it most certainly won't 'kill' a S1000RR HP4 by way of comparison simply look at 1/4 mile times (which I guess is a good illustration of basic performance) Porsche 10.5 @ 128, BMW 9.5 @155 there's a young guy in the states Jeremy Teasly who runs 8.75s 1/4 mile on a pretty standard S1000RR (not even the HP4 version) so in simple terms the bike is so much quicker on a dry UK road the Porsche would see where the BMW had gone.

But in reality, on like, roads and stuff, I'm pretty sure the Turbo S would disappear right up until the point it hit traffic.

[Jdjd1]

Rawwr said:

budd said:

I'm glad you added the Turbo S kills 'most' faster bikes because it most certainly won't 'kill' a S1000RR HP4 by way of comparison simply look at 1/4 mile times (which I guess is a good illustration of basic performance) Porsche 10.5 @ 128, BMW 9.5 @155 there's a young guy in the states Jeremy Teasly who runs 8.75s 1/4 mile on a pretty standard S1000RR (not even the HP4 version) so in simple terms the bike is so much quicker on a dry UK road the Porsche would see where the BMW had gone.

But in reality, on like, roads and stuff, I'm pretty sure the Turbo S would disappear right up until the point it hit traffic.

Of course because the Porsche will carry that much more speed in the corners and break substantially sharper. Plus the fact the GT3 will turn in better.

Only way bike has a chance is if the Porsche starts behind. But a timed A > B no traffic the RS everytime

[jimPH]

Wouldn't the Porsche be much easier to launch? I've never ridden an S1000rr so I wouldn't know how consistent they are, but even my mum could launch a DCT equipped car.

[ZX10R NIN]

Jdjd1 said:

Rawwr said:

budd said:

I'm glad you added the Turbo S kills 'most' faster bikes because it most certainly won't 'kill' a S1000RR HP4 by way of comparison simply look at 1/4 mile times (which I guess is a good illustration of basic performance) Porsche 10.5 @ 128, BMW 9.5 @155 there's a young guy in the states Jeremy Teasly who runs 8.75s 1/4 mile on a pretty standard S1000RR (not even the HP4 version) so in simple terms the bike is so much quicker on a dry UK road the Porsche would see where the BMW had gone.

But in reality, on like, roads and stuff, I'm pretty sure the Turbo S would disappear right up until the point it hit traffic.

Of course because the Porsche will carry that much more speed in the corners and break substantially sharper. Plus the fact the GT3 will turn in better.

Only way bike has a chance is if the Porsche starts behind. But a timed A > B no traffic the RS everytime

This would be rider & driver dependent but if they were at the same skill set & the road was empty the S1000RR would be gone.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IteniLcLImU

Listen to what they say about the corner speed.

[av185]

Err the Porsche is PDK.

The 'manuel' GT3s are much more involving though....I much prefer being able to to heel and toe given option far more satisfying even though these gearboxes are marginally slower.

[anonymous-user]

ZX10R NIN said:

This would be rider & driver dependent but if they were at the same skill set & the road was empty the S1000RR would be gone.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IteniLcLImU

Listen to what they say about the corner speed.

Indeed. If I can keep up with one on an empty mountain road in my ZZR, they can’t be that quick. Decent rider on any super bike would be past and gone.

[ZX10R NIN]

Jdjd1 said:

Rawwr said:

budd said:

I'm glad you added the Turbo S kills 'most' faster bikes because it most certainly won't 'kill' a S1000RR HP4 by way of comparison simply look at 1/4 mile times (which I guess is a good illustration of basic performance) Porsche 10.5 @ 128, BMW 9.5 @155 there's a young guy in the states Jeremy Teasly who runs 8.75s 1/4 mile on a pretty standard S1000RR (not even the HP4 version) so in simple terms the bike is so much quicker on a dry UK road the Porsche would see where the BMW had gone.

But in reality, on like, roads and stuff, I'm pretty sure the Turbo S would disappear right up until the point it hit traffic.

Of course because the Porsche will carry that much more speed in the corners and break substantially sharper. Plus the fact the GT3 will turn in better.

Only way bike has a chance is if the Porsche starts behind. But a timed A > B no traffic the RS everytime

There's a simple answer on a race track race cars beat race bikes everytime, road cars vs road bikes & it swings straight back into the bikes favour.

In reality on a real road a 600cc sportsbike will dispense most cars, let alone a 1000cc one in reality a Turbo S would be dispensed with.

I'm guessing you're talking about the 991 Turbo S which isn't a small car so those A roads so you'd have to be committed just to keep the bike in sight.

Look at this 600bhp 1200kg slick shod race car with DRS (it's a seriously impressive watch) but he only managed to slightly beat the time of a 135bhp race prepared 600cc sportsbike let alone a 210bhp Superstock 1000cc (which is very close to a showroom model) machine.

https://youtu.be/DRg5Sp1iQMc

One place where Super/Hypercars beat road bikes is top speed as all road bikes are limited to 186mph so normally geared to 190mph.

S1000RR vs Turbo S

https://youtu.be/kqDVLgKgxZs

Bugatti vs S1000RR

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boOnygO-ZWc

P1 vs 918 vs 1199

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfLqa4vlmFI

Bikes doing a 1/4 mile

https://youtu.be/tZ6h9OX9j9w

I can understand you thinking the (down an A/B Road) car will make up any deficit in the braking zone & through the corners, while that maybe true for some corners the bike will counter with acceleration the Turbo S can't match, there'll also be corners where the bike won't be braking at all & the car will have to be scrubbing speed.

The truth is both are fun but road bikes trounce road cars unless you have a few miles of motorway to real the bike back in.

[Berkshire bred]

Pointless topic really. 90% of the time a bike is quicker with a competent rider, but try picking up a Chinese on your way home on your litre sports bike. Horses for courses.

I have played with small bikes around b roads and country lanes in a 110 hp standard mx5 and the bike couldn't pull away or stay with me when i was in front. Obviously on a faster straighter road the bike has the advantage.

Plus in a car you're a lot less likely to become roadkill

[jimPH]

So how many UK track records are held by bikes?

[ZX10R NIN]

OP was talking about road riding everyone knows race cars beat race bikes on a track.

A more interesting question is what car do you have to buy to beat a showroom spec 6-700cc sportsbike?

[saaby93]

Has this been posted yet
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-43716912