RE: PH Origins: Electronic parking brakes

[Ares]

Andy20vt said:

Ares said:

Dale487 said:

Andy20vt said:

Technology for technology's sake!

It strikes me as designer not engineer driven - makes the interior cleaner looking. And then throws up problems that weren't even with a normal handbrake, the need for a hill start function - VAG which on some cars they charge extra for (c£60) even though the EPB is standard.

It's not technology for technology sake, it's technology for driver benefit, just as most other technological advancements.

Still maintain it solves more problems that it causes - and hill start functionality was around before EPB.

How is it a driver benefit? A lazy driver perhaps? For those of us who like to maintain a higher level of control and sensitivity over our vehicles though (which surely is the point of Pistonheads), then an electric parking brake with it's either ON or OFF options offers a realtime decrease in overall vehicle and especially driving in adverse conditions control.

Level of sensitivity and control.....when parking?? Come on.

Driver benefit as you never risk not engaging the parking brake properly, or forgetting to engage it. The parking brake should never need to be used any other time than when the vehicle is stationary? On that basis, making it as failsafe and simple as possible is surely a good thing??

[Ares]

350Matt said:

I suspect those who like EPB have never had to try and fix one....

they are rubbish and hateful

How many motorists do their own maintenance to the level or fixing a parking brake? Minuscule part of the market.

[Ares]

tolksee said:

TheOversteerLever said:

It's just not the same though is it? I want a proper oversteer lever!

Then get a Rear-wheel drive car. Lever's in the footwell - it's the pedal on the right.

Exactly. The parking brake doesn't give you oversteer.

[Ares]

untakenname said:

I'm pretty sure if you press it whilst in motion it locks all four wheels.

Not on any of the cars I've owned. Current car has a separate set of rear (only) callipers for the parking brake.

[CrgT16]

It’s something introduced that was not a required but on a heavier car or 4x4 might have its uses.

I personally don’t need it or the hill hold as if driving an auto that does hold it anyway and on a manual I tend to get the clutch bite point and car never rolls back.

Also I really only use my parking brake if parking on an incline and if stationary a long time in traffic. Always leave car in gear when parked as well.

Saying that manual handbrakes can be rubbish I think both E46 and F31 I had the hand brake barely held the cars even after adjustments. Quite poor t the point on my 340i I think it will failed it’s first MOT when time comes. I thinks it’s a BMW 3 series feature but maybe it’s just mine

[Harris_I]

culpz said:

The irony impairment on this forum knows no bounds. Especially since you've advised that you cannot reverse park your car without opening your door. You certainly wouldn't pass your driving test if you did that, put it that way.

Sigh. I do it rarely. It's useful when reversing a race car. It's useful when checking the curb especially with diamond turned alloys on a big car. It's useful to warn a family with young children wandering behind the car. I wouldn't do it in a small car with good visibility.

Once again I am reminded why it's really not worth contributing to certain forums.

[1974foggy]

Just reminds me of the film Wall-e whereby humans have got to lazy through technology, and eventually have to ride around in those electric flubber cart things!
E brakes are hateful things, and another reason not to like that hideous 7 series.
Often sticking on when left for a while in bad weather, too, from experience with VW.

[culpz]

Harris_I said:

culpz said:

The irony impairment on this forum knows no bounds. Especially since you've advised that you cannot reverse park your car without opening your door. You certainly wouldn't pass your driving test if you did that, put it that way.

Sigh. I do it rarely. It's useful when reversing a race car. It's useful when checking the curb especially with diamond turned alloys on a big car. It's useful to warn a family with young children wandering behind the car. I wouldn't do it in a small car with good visibility.

Once again I am reminded why it's really not worth contributing to certain forums.

You didn't state the frequency at the time, other than simply that's how you reverse, which gives the presumption that's more often than not.

Again, the technology is not the problem here, it's clearly the way you do things and the refusal to use what's given to you.

No-one's forcing you to post anything. Your whole point is just very contradictory and i wanted to explore it, i.e. the whole point of forums.

[Superhoop]

Rovinghawk said:

The system on my cars: pull lever up,handbrake on- push lever down, handbrake off. Simple.

It doesn't need 'improving'. I won't be buying a car with the electric/electronic version.

Only it does...

The one thing that the EPB does that no manual handbrake has ever managed to do is apply the same amount of force to the brakes no matter who applied the handbrake...

Now I know that the average PHer is 6'4", built like a brick out house and has a goatee and all, so never has a problem pulling on the handbrake so hard that the cables stretch to breaking point..

But poor old Doris, aged 93 last week, standing 4' 8" tall and weighing in at an impressive 8 stone wet... well she can't pull the hand brake on with quite so much vigour..

But you know what, with an EPB, she applies exactly the same force to pads as our resident PHer = One very good argument for the case of the EPB

[Ares]

Superhoop said:

Only it does...

The one thing that the EPB does that no manual handbrake has ever managed to do is apply the same amount of force to the brakes no matter who applied the handbrake...

Now I know that the average PHer is 6'4", built like a brick out house and has a goatee and all, so never has a problem pulling on the handbrake so hard that the cables stretch to breaking point..

But poor old Doris, aged 93 last week, standing 4' 8" tall and weighing in at an impressive 8 stone wet... well she can't pull the hand brake on with quite so much vigour..

But you know what, with an EPB, she applies exactly the same force to pads as our resident PHer = One very good argument for the case of the EPB

My point entirely. Except not for Doris, but for my wife who is 4'11 and 6 stone.

[Ares]

Harris_I said:

Sigh. I do it rarely. It's useful when reversing a race car. It's useful when checking the curb especially with diamond turned alloys on a big car. It's useful to warn a family with young children wandering behind the car. I wouldn't do it in a small car with good visibility.

Once again I am reminded why it's really not worth contributing to certain forums.

If the parking brake is a key factor when choosing a race car....I can't help thinking something might be wrong

[Kawasicki]

Ares said:

untakenname said:

I'm pretty sure if you press it whilst in motion it locks all four wheels.

Not on any of the cars I've owned. Current car has a separate set of rear (only) callipers for the parking brake.

I think if you actuate the epb switch while in motion the abs pump runs and utilises all four brakes to generate about 0.6g braking. The EPB calipers are not used until the car is stationary.

[Ares]

Kawasicki said:

Ares said:

untakenname said:

I'm pretty sure if you press it whilst in motion it locks all four wheels.

Not on any of the cars I've owned. Current car has a separate set of rear (only) callipers for the parking brake.

I think if you actuate the epb switch while in motion the abs pump runs and utilises all four brakes to generate about 0.6g braking. The EPB calipers are not used until the car is stationary.

I only use the parking brake when parked #Ronseal

[va1o]

I like EPBs, much easier and nicer to operate compared to a conventional handbrake. Particularly good with Auto Hold as you never need to touch it at all since it applies and releases itself when needed.

Find it a bit odd that BMW where the first to debut, yet there seems to have been some reluctance to use across the rest of the range. Current shape 1, 2, 3 and 4 series all use conventional handbrakes still

[Superhoop]

va1o said:

I like EPBs, much easier and nicer to operate compared to a conventional handbrake. Particularly good with Auto Hold as you never need to touch it at all since it applies and releases itself when needed.

Find it a bit odd that BMW where the first to debut, yet there seems to have been some reluctance to use across the rest of the range. Current shape 1, 2, 3 and 4 series all use conventional handbrakes still

Auto hold is actually a function of ABS, which just maintains (holds) the brake pressure that was applied to bring the car to a stop, it isn’t actually using the EPB at all during the “hold” phase - the EPB only comes into play after either a given time period, or if the engine is switched off and the hand brake hasn’t been applied.

[GSE]

Both my cars have conventional handbrakes and manually applying them comes as natural as using the steering wheel to steer left and right. Every time I drive a vehicle with a digital or electronic handbrake, I have to find out how to apply it, and they don’t give you much confidence that they have actually applied, or will stay applied when needed. Engaging the lever using a certain amount of force does give me that confidence. With a conventional handbrake, you are in charge of applying it when you want. With a digital handbrake you no longer have the last say as various interlocks and cut-outs in the system will over-ride your decision and generally complicate the process.

I imagine that the primary reasons for employing electronic handbrakes are that they are cheaper for the manufacturer to install, and the free space offered by the removal of the lever can be filled with an extra cup holder or ipod dock. I suppose they also cater for those who will never understand the basic principles of operating a vehicle, and cannot navigate a straight path along a pavement without having an ipod positioned 6 inches in front of their nose.

The manufacturers dress them up as something you can’t possibly live without, and they must have been a marketing managers dream when they first appeared. Audi even had the audacity to offer hill start as an extra cost option, despite it long being a feature of a conventional handbrake.

Electronic handbrakes, no thanks, fixing something that ain’t broke. I’ll stick with a conventional brake, along with a manual gearbox and a steering wheel. Enjoy using the steering wheel whilst you can, because that will be next to go, when the marketing dept decide that it’s an unnecessary waste of space and will be replaced with buttons.

Edited by GSE on Tuesday 24th April 20:58

[wst]

A lot of people seem mightily offended by the suggestion that a highly engineered system could ever do something better than them.

I would like to ask these people why they don't manually adjust their ignition timing like a real man.

[GSE]

wst said:

A lot of people seem mightily offended by the suggestion that a highly engineered system could ever do something better than them.

Because in my experience, I can do it better than a highly engineered system does. The human brain is a highly evolved system developed over thousands of year of evolution, and I enjoy using it.

wst said:

I would like to ask these people why they don't manually adjust their ignition timing like a real man.

I will concede that, for ignition timing purposes, a highly engineered system is more appropriate

[Triumph Man]

I wouldn't really mind if my E39 5 series had a much more effective modern EPB. Mine doesn't have the worst E39 handbrake around, but it is still pretty rubbish... well too rubbish to do handbrake turns anyway, and yes, of course I've tried.

Edited by Triumph Man on Tuesday 24th April 22:19

[MrGTI6]

Andy20vt said:

Technology for technology's sake!

Absolutely! I hate the things!