RE: PH Origins: Electronic parking brakes
Discussion
beko1987 said:
My old Laguna2 had an EPB. Through the french 'fear' I NEVER used it bar when the car applied it when I turned it off. Then the cables streched slightly and I had a heck of a time getting it to pass the MOT, because I couldn't just adjust the cable.
Yeah I remember my Laguna had one... So do the neighbours whose Punto was hit when it randomly failed one night hours after I parked it...Curious to see what proportion of "electronic handbrake failures" are actual handbrake failures and not user error. Remember the Toyota accelerator problems?
Software was blamed. Guess what - it wasn't the problem. The brakes were good enough to bring the car to a stop even with the engine at full throttle.
Floor mats were blamed, for trapping the pedal. These were found to be responsible for only a small proportion of accidents of the "my throttle is jammed wide open" accidents.
The vast majority of the crashes were caused by the very human drivers (which are definitely not driving gods from PistonHeads, who are an insignificant proportion of potential customers and barely worth paying attention to from a mass production standpoint) pressing the accelerators into the firewall and screaming that the brakes weren't working. The brakes were not working because the brake pedal wasn't being used.
How about all those aviation accidents that were caused by humans? Highly trained ones, not just "L-test passes".
Can't think why electronic handbrakes exist. They're lighter than mechanical systems, easier to package, harder to use incorrectly, cheaper.
Baffles me.
Now if you excuse me, I'm going to go smash some calculators with my bare fists, because maths is to be performed manually, and hammers are just too complicated to trust with the complex job of smashing stuff.
Software was blamed. Guess what - it wasn't the problem. The brakes were good enough to bring the car to a stop even with the engine at full throttle.
Floor mats were blamed, for trapping the pedal. These were found to be responsible for only a small proportion of accidents of the "my throttle is jammed wide open" accidents.
The vast majority of the crashes were caused by the very human drivers (which are definitely not driving gods from PistonHeads, who are an insignificant proportion of potential customers and barely worth paying attention to from a mass production standpoint) pressing the accelerators into the firewall and screaming that the brakes weren't working. The brakes were not working because the brake pedal wasn't being used.
How about all those aviation accidents that were caused by humans? Highly trained ones, not just "L-test passes".
Can't think why electronic handbrakes exist. They're lighter than mechanical systems, easier to package, harder to use incorrectly, cheaper.
Baffles me.
Now if you excuse me, I'm going to go smash some calculators with my bare fists, because maths is to be performed manually, and hammers are just too complicated to trust with the complex job of smashing stuff.
Mr Tidy said:
Electronic hand-brake - another solution to a problem that didn't exist!
Still I will always park above any French cars, because they may have that defective feature - and when French cars have an issue you don't want to be anywhere near them!
Only the manual system does have a problem th?at exists... read my previous post regarding 93 year old Doris... and the EPB cures that problem. Still I will always park above any French cars, because they may have that defective feature - and when French cars have an issue you don't want to be anywhere near them!
wst said:
Can't think why electronic handbrakes exist. They're lighter than mechanical systems, easier to package, harder to use incorrectly, cheaper.
If they are so wonderful, why do so many people complain about them?I still possess the mental capability to know when a handbrake should be applied and removed, and still possess the physical capability to pull the lever up and down. The system gives me positive feedback in that I can regulate the holding force by varying how hard I pull on the lever, and confirmation that the brake is applied when I leave the vehicle, because I can see that the lever is up. I can also check the efficiency of the parking brake now and again by trying to gently pull away in first gear with the parking brake applied, and comparing the results with different amounts of force being applied to the lever. The conventional system suits me just fine.
I am by no means a Luddite and will buy into new technology when I consider it to be useful, but I am beginning to loathe the amount of unnecessary new technology being forced upon us. May be it’s my age as I was brought up during the time when there were only 4 channels on the television and the sound from your HiFi system was controlled by rotary knobs and switches rather than unpredictable touch screens.
The only justification I can see for electronic handbrakes (from a drivers point of view) is that they will give 93 year old Doris a method of applying the handbrake when she cannot summon up enough energy to do so using a conventional lever. May be EHB’s should have been rolled out as an option for the physically disabled or the ipod generation, and then with some kind of standard operating protocol. However the number one priority will have been to do it cheaper, so unfortunately, they are here to stay.
And finally ... just to add ... Electronic handbrakes remind me of Vauxhall's utterly utterly pointless attempt at 'improving' the indicator stalk, by preventing it staying in the left and right position, and having it immediately return to the central/off position, thus confusing feedback.
GSE said:
And finally ... just to add ... Electronic handbrakes remind me of Vauxhall's utterly utterly pointless attempt at 'improving' the indicator stalk, by preventing it staying in the left and right position, and having it immediately return to the central/off position.
Unfortunately BMW tried this as well, although their implementation doesn't seem as bad...Triumph Man said:
GSE said:
And finally ... just to add ... Electronic handbrakes remind me of Vauxhall's utterly utterly pointless attempt at 'improving' the indicator stalk, by preventing it staying in the left and right position, and having it immediately return to the central/off position.
Unfortunately BMW tried this as well, although their implementation doesn't seem as bad...GSE said:
wst said:
Can't think why electronic handbrakes exist. They're lighter than mechanical systems, easier to package, harder to use incorrectly, cheaper.
If they are so wonderful, why do so many people complain about them?
Ares said:
Triumph Man said:
GSE said:
And finally ... just to add ... Electronic handbrakes remind me of Vauxhall's utterly utterly pointless attempt at 'improving' the indicator stalk, by preventing it staying in the left and right position, and having it immediately return to the central/off position.
Unfortunately BMW tried this as well, although their implementation doesn't seem as bad...BMW have gone the other way with the latest generation models reverting back to standard indicator stalks!
GSE said:
If they are so wonderful, why do so many people complain about them?
Selection bias. No-one waxes lyrical about how good a handbrake is. I'd suggest you aren't seeing a statistically significant number of complaints about them.Plenty of people complain about change, even if it's objectively better. There is a measure of having to learn how new things work (I thought "sod this" with my first EPB because it was on the dashboard and I didn't know it had auto-release, so I was constantly pressing the button in queues... but I soon learned) and some people don't earn the right to complain because they are reluctant to put the slightest effort into learning something new.
It's like how my parents complain about computers, despite spending no time bothering to learn how to use them and not making any sort of connection between "I do this" and "it does that".
Edited by wst on Wednesday 25th April 11:45
wst said:
election bias. No-one waxes lyrical about how good a handbrake is. I'd suggest you aren't seeing a statistically significant number of complaints about them.
Plenty of people complain about change, even if it's objectively better. There is a measure of having to learn how new things work (I thought "sod this" with my first EPB because it was on the dashboard and I didn't know it had auto-release, so I was constantly pressing the button in queues... but I soon learned) and some people don't earn the right to complain because they are reluctant to put the slightest effort into learning something new.
It's like how my parents complain about computers, despite spending no time bothering to learn how to use them and not making any sort of connection between "I do this" and "it does that".
Fair enough. In ten years time all cars will have epb's and hopefully by then they will have ironed out all the bugs Plenty of people complain about change, even if it's objectively better. There is a measure of having to learn how new things work (I thought "sod this" with my first EPB because it was on the dashboard and I didn't know it had auto-release, so I was constantly pressing the button in queues... but I soon learned) and some people don't earn the right to complain because they are reluctant to put the slightest effort into learning something new.
It's like how my parents complain about computers, despite spending no time bothering to learn how to use them and not making any sort of connection between "I do this" and "it does that".
Edited by wst on Wednesday 25th April 11:45
You have probably gathered by now that i don't like automatic gearboxes either. All this new tech just dumbs down interaction between the driver and the vehicle, and thus dumbs down the driving experience (what's left of it) in my opinion. May be when I get really old I will appreciate the 'benefits' of an epb and an automatic gearbox. GSE said:
Fair enough. In ten years time all cars will have epb's and hopefully by then they will have ironed out all the bugs You have probably gathered by now that i don't like automatic gearboxes either. All this new tech just dumbs down interaction between the driver and the vehicle, and thus dumbs down the driving experience (what's left of it) in my opinion. May be when I get really old I will appreciate the 'benefits' of an epb and an automatic gearbox.
Or maybe you'll just drag yourself into the current century and stop playing Victor Meldrew You have probably gathered by now that i don't like automatic gearboxes either. All this new tech just dumbs down interaction between the driver and the vehicle, and thus dumbs down the driving experience (what's left of it) in my opinion. May be when I get really old I will appreciate the 'benefits' of an epb and an automatic gearbox. Do you remember when this was all fields? And we had jumpers of goalposts? Nothing made like it used to be? Kids today.....
I’m not a fan.
Every Passat or Insignia I’ve been in exhibits clutch judder.
I believe a lot of this is down to pulling away against the auto park brake,
It takes a lot of torque before they release.
All this slack is taken up by the poor clutch.
Fine in autos I suppose, not so nice in manuals.
I also like the finesse of clutch vs handbrake when it comes to manual hill starts.
Yep it’s a no from me.
Every Passat or Insignia I’ve been in exhibits clutch judder.
I believe a lot of this is down to pulling away against the auto park brake,
It takes a lot of torque before they release.
All this slack is taken up by the poor clutch.
Fine in autos I suppose, not so nice in manuals.
I also like the finesse of clutch vs handbrake when it comes to manual hill starts.
Yep it’s a no from me.
3795mpower said:
I’m not a fan.
Every Passat or Insignia I’ve been in exhibits clutch judder.
I believe a lot of this is down to pulling away against the auto park brake,
It takes a lot of torque before they release.
All this slack is taken up by the poor clutch.
.
er.......the idea is to disengage a parking brake before setting off??Every Passat or Insignia I’ve been in exhibits clutch judder.
I believe a lot of this is down to pulling away against the auto park brake,
It takes a lot of torque before they release.
All this slack is taken up by the poor clutch.
.
See definitions of 'parking' for further details
GSE said:
Ares said:
er.......the idea is to disengage a parking brake before setting off??
See definitions of 'parking' for further details
er .... I thought electronic parking brakes were supposed to do it automatically???See definitions of 'parking' for further details
And electronic parking brake is just an electric version of a manual parking brake. From a user perspective it is a little flap to life up/down rather than a big lever. Some may also have an auto-on function, I've never driven one with an auto-off function.
Ares said:
Er....no That's auto-hold/auto parking brake.
And electronic parking brake is just an electric version of a manual parking brake. From a user perspective it is a little flap to life up/down rather than a big lever. Some may also have an auto-on function, I've never driven one with an auto-off function.
Ares, ahh, I see, thanks for that. [victormeldrew=on] I see that a full investigation into bloody e-l-e-c-t-r-o-n-i-c handbrakes is needed before we buy our next car! [victormeldrew=off]And electronic parking brake is just an electric version of a manual parking brake. From a user perspective it is a little flap to life up/down rather than a big lever. Some may also have an auto-on function, I've never driven one with an auto-off function.
Apologies for being a bit slow at the back here, I'll leave you to it
GSE said:
Ares said:
Er....no That's auto-hold/auto parking brake.
And electronic parking brake is just an electric version of a manual parking brake. From a user perspective it is a little flap to life up/down rather than a big lever. Some may also have an auto-on function, I've never driven one with an auto-off function.
Ares, ahh, I see, thanks for that. [victormeldrew=on] I see that a full investigation into bloody e-l-e-c-t-r-o-n-i-c handbrakes is needed before we buy our next car! [victormeldrew=off]And electronic parking brake is just an electric version of a manual parking brake. From a user perspective it is a little flap to life up/down rather than a big lever. Some may also have an auto-on function, I've never driven one with an auto-off function.
Apologies for being a bit slow at the back here, I'll leave you to it
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff