Old cars,built better ?

[MC Bodge]

LuS1fer said:

I had a January 1997 Mondeo 2.0LX Mk 2 that I bought in October 2007 so nearly 11 years old. It wasn't great, cheap velour seats, cheap plastic dash. Various things went wrong with the heater controls and half the heated screen had failed. Always felt clammy inside. I had it for about 2 years and the front discs had to be cut off, come the MOT, they were that corroded on.

I bought a new Mondeo 2.0 Edge in 2009 so it's now 9 years old and the quality is light years better.

I have had very similar experiences.

My 1994 Mk1 2.0LX had 70k on it when I bought it and about 110k when I sold it. Heater resistor issues, the same velour seats, front discs needed breaking off to replace. Wishbone bushes wore out. Broken coil spring, It suffered various cooling system faults. It felt damp inside. The exhaust was replaced.
-Handling was very good for the time, though.

I had other cars then back to Mondeo.

My Mk3 2.0 TDCI needed only a rear wheel bearing replacement, new rear shocks and a new turbo hose. I sold it at 100k miles due to horror stories about the 130 engine.

My current Mk4 Mondeo Edge 2.0 TDCI is now 8.5 years old on 105k miles. It gets a 6 monthly wash. Beyond yearly DIY servicing and brakes all round has needed, er, NOTHING doing to it. Touch wood. No rust. Clean underneath. A superb car.

All of these Mondeos have been treated similarly. Not been mollycoddled. Driven enthusiastically/hard home and( flat out) abroad (albeit a bit more smoothly 20 years on) , occasionally on bumpy tracks and fields, carted around dirty bikes, tip runs, warmed up and cooled down, quality oil and parts.

Edited by MC Bodge on Saturday 28th April 23:22

[KM666]

I've got a stripped out Honda Prelude for £400 as a track project/leave anywhere car and I'm very impressed with how it's aged. Okay so interior rattles don't apply bit the bodywork has stood up well despite having had door skins and a quarter panel replaced within its history records, a crash I imagine rather than rust.
Whereas my BMW 330d is showing bubbles on the arches, I'd have been very dissapointed had I paid the £30k or so it would have cost new and pretty satisfied with how the Honda aged.
However the BMW only cost me shed money so I don't mind replacing a few wings.
I had an astra mk4 that was actually quite well put together for what it was, nothing rattled on it and the steering was still sharp. Another very cheap buy.
However I've had some atrocious rentals or work cars with all sorts of stuff going on, I think I notice them because perhaps I'd forgive a creak in a older car or a bit of oil consumption but to me I find it hilarious somebody would buy a new Audi and have to top the oil up.
Personally I think cars peaked in the early to mid 2000s.

[lyonspride]

MC Bodge said:

My current Mk4 Mondeo Edge 2.0 TDCI is now 8.5 years old on 105k miles. It gets a 6 monthly wash. Beyond yearly DIY servicing and brakes all round has needed, er, NOTHING doing to it. Touch wood. No rust. Clean underneath. A superb car.

Edited by MC Bodge on Saturday 28th April 23:22

Remove the driver side storage compartment (where the OBDII port is) and see how you feel about the rusting untreated metal just behind it, then look at the storage compartment itself, note no proper hinge, just a thin area of plastic, how long will that last before it weakens, breaks and is left hanging by the catch?
Open your doors, grab the lower door seals and pull gently, how many plastic clips are broken?
Look under the engine bay at the alternator heat shield, has it snapped from it's mounting point and started flailing about yet?
Has your foot gone through the carpet just in front of the drivers seat and into the cable/wiring tunnel yet?
Does your seat drop to the left when you sit down?
Do the headrests actually move without the use of a large rubber mallet (don't actually do that)?
Does yours have the software bug where if you roll down the passenger window a little, you can't put it back up without winding it fully down first?

My experience going from Vectra to Mondeo MK4 is that Vauxhall make cars that don't look great, but are actually pretty solid and well thought out (although the gearboxes are weak), whilst Ford make flimsy cars and roll them in glitter.

It didn't used to be this way and I think there's a quality issue related to excessive penny pinching on Fords built or sold in America, UK and Europe. I drove an Australian built Ford Falcon 4.0 turbo V6 recently (In Australia) and the difference between that and cars in the west, was like night and day, it's a shame they're replacing it soon with a rebadged MK5 Mondeo.

[Boosted LS1]

SidewaysSi said:

Modern cars are disposable tat. Use, abuse, chuck away and get a new one. Few exceptions but in general they have a feeling of being built to a (low) price.

Funny you say that. My dad recently commented on the 3 bmw/audi family visitor cars on his drive as if they were a sign of the family dong well. I just see them as white goods. Nowt special at all.

[Boosted LS1]

As for older cars being built better that depends on the manufacturer at the time. My swedish banger was galvanised, so at 18 years old is rust free. It's the fastest van in the west and all I do is maintain it which is pretty cheap. I'm actually in profit from owning it :-)

[loose cannon]

Volume cars are better built today,
prestige cars are not as well Built as they were in the 90’s imo, look past the shiny tech and they have no better build quality than a volume product

[Mr Tidy]

KM666 said:

Personally I think cars peaked in the early to mid 2000s.

I think you are right - but then I've got an 06 plate BMW E91 325i and a 56 plate E86 so it may be wishful thinking on my part!

[MC Bodge]

lyonspride said:

Remove the driver side storage compartment (where the OBDII port is) and see how you feel about the rusting untreated metal just behind it, then look at the storage compartment itself, note no proper hinge, just a thin area of plastic, how long will that last before it weakens, breaks and is left hanging by the catch?
Open your doors, grab the lower door seals and pull gently, how many plastic clips are broken?
Look under the engine bay at the alternator heat shield, has it snapped from it's mounting point and started flailing about yet?
Has your foot gone through the carpet just in front of the drivers seat and into the cable/wiring tunnel yet?
Does your seat drop to the left when you sit down?
Do the headrests actually move without the use of a large rubber mallet (don't actually do that)?
Does yours have the software bug where if you roll down the passenger window a little, you can't put it back up without winding it fully down first?

Most of those don't apply to my car. The unpainted metal behind the dash has nothing more than micro surface rust. The door seal clips are fine, although heavy icing (once in a decade) did cause one to pop off when he door was opened.

The car has surpassed my expectations.

[coppice]

Boosted LS1 said:

SidewaysSi said:

Modern cars are disposable tat. Use, abuse, chuck away and get a new one. Few exceptions but in general they have a feeling of being built to a (low) price.

Funny you say that. My dad recently commented on the 3 bmw/audi family visitor cars on his drive as if they were a sign of the family dong well. I just see them as white goods. Nowt special at all.

I realise it is The Law that one must sneer at cars which are more fit for more people than any predecessor in performance , economy or safety. You guys should have tried driving a Viva HA,Morris Oxford or Maxi in period ....

[dvshannow]

Think 80s cars generally were not built well


But good 2000s are well built

I have a 2005 manual e90 330i with 50k miles now which is pretty much mint and feels like a superbly puttogether car in a way more modern bmws dont....ie we had a new 2014 x3 which felt worse in comparison.

One reason i think this is cars then were still quite basic the 330i has no fancy electronic suspension, pdk, traction or navs to go wrong yet is still made from relatively modern rust proofing.

The engine is also a peach and perhaps better than a modern 330i and certainly better than the current 330d

[Toyoda]

I'm glad this thread popped up as I was thinking of asking the same. Do manufacturers these days really just care about the warranty period? Is there built in obsolescence? I understand if cars were so reliable with age then many consumers would have little need to replace, and that's not a good business model. However if a car only performs reliably for 3 years then the consumer is deterred from buying the same brand again. Has to be a fair balance I suppose. Mind that comment at the start of this thread about volvos response is quite telling.
I've often read on here about the mid noughties cars being the pinnacle and from personal experience that holds true. What about cars from say 2010 to 2013? How's the 5 to 8 year old stuff around today holding up?

[RobDickinson]

Toyoda said:

Do manufacturers these days really just care about the warranty period? Is there built in obsolescence?

Yes and yes. They are built to last around 150k miles , to fail infrequently in warranty and as cheaply as possible to do all that whilst still looking attractive in the market.

[RemyMartin81D]

This thread has a comment in it which made me go looking.

Here is the Iranian 405 sold new!

http://www.ikco.ir/en/Product.aspx?ID=43&Secti...

[MalcolmSmith]

loose cannon said:

Volume cars are better built today,
prestige cars are not as well Built as they were in the 90’s imo, look past the shiny tech and they have no better build quality than a volume product

I would agree with that, it used to possible to buy better quality, now its just a larger version of the same product with squishier plastics.

I suppose its what the consumer demanded.