RE: Ford drops hatches from US line up
Discussion
Jonesy23 said:
So having f
ked up the 'world' models by making them suit the US market they then stop targeting the US market. Utterly brilliant. You'd have thought they might have noticed how the rot set in in with certain models.
It'll be interesting to see if this actually works. I suspect stripping your range down to a couple of popular models isn't a great long term plan if you really want to hang onto market share - you end up owning a couple of niches but people can no longer stick with the brand if they want to buy some perfectly normal stuff.
It basically stinks of a bean counter driven decision rather than a great strategic vision.
Totally agree. It's such a bad decision I fear that GM have infiltrated the Ford management and are deliberately destroying the company. ked up the 'world' models by making them suit the US market they then stop targeting the US market. Utterly brilliant. You'd have thought they might have noticed how the rot set in in with certain models. It'll be interesting to see if this actually works. I suspect stripping your range down to a couple of popular models isn't a great long term plan if you really want to hang onto market share - you end up owning a couple of niches but people can no longer stick with the brand if they want to buy some perfectly normal stuff.
It basically stinks of a bean counter driven decision rather than a great strategic vision.
Taking out all that production must have implications for plants and therefore jobs also. This may also affect EU workers as the US will protect it's own interests first at the expense of the European facilities.
Whilst SUV's are practical and currently the flavor of the month, many people still want a typical 3-box saloon or hatchback vehicle. Giving up the market to the Japanese and Koreans is a big mistake.
j4r4lly said:
Totally agree. It's such a bad decision I fear that GM have infiltrated the Ford management and are deliberately destroying the company.
Taking out all that production must have implications for plants and therefore jobs also. This may also affect EU workers as the US will protect it's own interests first at the expense of the European facilities.
Whilst SUV's are practical and currently the flavor of the month, many people still want a typical 3-box saloon or hatchback vehicle. Giving up the market to the Japanese and Koreans is a big mistake.
No offence, to you and to everyone else in this thread, but I am going to presume that Ford's legion of analysts, economists, accountants, and senior management know more about the business of selling cars than most on this forum, and they think that it is a good decision. Taking out all that production must have implications for plants and therefore jobs also. This may also affect EU workers as the US will protect it's own interests first at the expense of the European facilities.
Whilst SUV's are practical and currently the flavor of the month, many people still want a typical 3-box saloon or hatchback vehicle. Giving up the market to the Japanese and Koreans is a big mistake.
Businesses don't always make good decisions but they are in the best position to make these decisions with the volume of data that they possess.
Integroo said:
No offence, to you and to everyone else in this thread, but I am going to presume that Ford's legion of analysts, economists, accountants, and senior management know more about the business of selling cars than most on this forum,
+1lee_erm said:
Rumour has it Kim Jong has crossed the border to join the celebrations at the Kia factory.
Hugh Jarse said:
Doubtful, what are the figures by comparison? - I bet less than 15%.
People have always wanted cars with space and easy to get in an out of.
The "crossover" merely reflects the shape of a car people want.
The 4wd gubbins that they originally had in the 90s was merely an inconvenience.
The profile of thirties cars is very similar to that of crossovers.
We've just had a daft phase in between where cars were cramp, made people creep along the ground, and a dismal view that cannot see over hedges.
Finally cars are shaped like people need, without the 4WD gubbins.
Hugh Jarse is spot on.People have always wanted cars with space and easy to get in an out of.
The "crossover" merely reflects the shape of a car people want.
The 4wd gubbins that they originally had in the 90s was merely an inconvenience.
The profile of thirties cars is very similar to that of crossovers.
We've just had a daft phase in between where cars were cramp, made people creep along the ground, and a dismal view that cannot see over hedges.
Finally cars are shaped like people need, without the 4WD gubbins.
This talk about a Golf does everything you need it to and you don't need a crossover is BS from my own point of view.
I had a Golf, it was cramped, I couldn't fit anything in it, it was so bloody low I used to fall over on top of my young child bending down so bloody low to fasten her in.
I cracked the sump, snapped a spring and bent an alloy, because it is so low it can't cope with Pot Holes, speed bumps or the odd kerb.
AND, it got 45-47 mpg, less than the Qashqai I replaced it with.
The Qashqai has more space and nothing has ever broke and it is more economical (just at 50 mpg).
So this talk of Crossover tax etc is just BS from my own experience.
There is something to be said for cars that have:
Reasonable ground clearance
Plush ride and some tyre volume
Compliant suspension and good handling feel
Decent sized door apertures
Big boot
A lot of SUVs don't have the above though.
They are pseudo off road, ruffty tufty Judge Dred mobiles.
Reasonable ground clearance
Plush ride and some tyre volume
Compliant suspension and good handling feel
Decent sized door apertures
Big boot
A lot of SUVs don't have the above though.
They are pseudo off road, ruffty tufty Judge Dred mobiles.
All I can say is this decision is baffling to those of us in America, too. If Ford can't make money selling 200,000+ examples of the Fusion (Mondeo) in the USA annually then there is something seriously wrong going on at Ford. Likewise, if they can't make money selling Fiestas built with cheap Mexican labour (as the current US-spec Fiesta is) then, once again, there is something seriously wrong going on at Ford.
Ford announced a few months ago the next generation US-market Focus would be imported from China. Now it appears the only Chinese Focus we'll be getting is the quasi-crossoverish Focus Active. And, I suspect, the only reason we're getting that version is because even Ford's executives grudgingly recognise the recently introduced (in the US) EcoSport is sh!t.
This is, in essence, Ford saying to the Japanese "We give up, you win!" Granted, there are plenty of car buyers in America who have been brainwashed into thinking only Toyota and Honda build reliable cars. I have met so many people who refuse to consider anything other than a Toyota or a Honda because they truly believe all other cars are unreliable rubbish. However, this stigma doesn't seem to apply when the conversation shifts away from passenger cars and towards trucks and SUVs. Perhaps this is just Ford admitting that, no matter how good of a car they make, they will never be able to win back the car buyers they have forever lost to the Japanese? Even so, this smacks of being an incredibly short-sighted decision.
Come the next artificially-manufactured oil crisis and/or economic downturn, Ford will yet again be caught with their pants down!
Ford announced a few months ago the next generation US-market Focus would be imported from China. Now it appears the only Chinese Focus we'll be getting is the quasi-crossoverish Focus Active. And, I suspect, the only reason we're getting that version is because even Ford's executives grudgingly recognise the recently introduced (in the US) EcoSport is sh!t.
This is, in essence, Ford saying to the Japanese "We give up, you win!" Granted, there are plenty of car buyers in America who have been brainwashed into thinking only Toyota and Honda build reliable cars. I have met so many people who refuse to consider anything other than a Toyota or a Honda because they truly believe all other cars are unreliable rubbish. However, this stigma doesn't seem to apply when the conversation shifts away from passenger cars and towards trucks and SUVs. Perhaps this is just Ford admitting that, no matter how good of a car they make, they will never be able to win back the car buyers they have forever lost to the Japanese? Even so, this smacks of being an incredibly short-sighted decision.
Come the next artificially-manufactured oil crisis and/or economic downturn, Ford will yet again be caught with their pants down!
MadmanO/T People said:
All I can say is this decision is baffling to those of us in America, too. If Ford can't make money selling 200,000+ examples of the Fusion (Mondeo) in the USA annually then there is something seriously wrong going on at Ford. Likewise, if they can't make money selling Fiestas built with cheap Mexican labour (as the current US-spec Fiesta is) then, once again, there is something seriously wrong going on at Ford.
Ford announced a few months ago the next generation US-market Focus would be imported from China. Now it appears the only Chinese Focus we'll be getting is the quasi-crossoverish Focus Active. And, I suspect, the only reason we're getting that version is because even Ford's executives grudgingly recognise the recently introduced (in the US) EcoSport is sh!t.
This is, in essence, Ford saying to the Japanese "We give up, you win!" Granted, there are plenty of car buyers in America who have been brainwashed into thinking only Toyota and Honda build reliable cars. I have met so many people who refuse to consider anything other than a Toyota or a Honda because they truly believe all other cars are unreliable rubbish. However, this stigma doesn't seem to apply when the conversation shifts away from passenger cars and towards trucks and SUVs. Perhaps this is just Ford admitting that, no matter how good of a car they make, they will never be able to win back the car buyers they have forever lost to the Japanese? Even so, this smacks of being an incredibly short-sighted decision.
Come the next artificially-manufactured oil crisis and/or economic downturn, Ford will yet again be caught with their pants down!
IME in the US people don't want a compact/mid size they want an SUV; as they're already buying a car they don't want they act rationally and buy the best value which is Korean/Japanese. When people are buying something they want they don't act rationally, the Explorer comes close to last in just about every comparison of big SUV's, beaten by a number of cheaper better equipped and more capable rivals but is consistently the biggest seller. I just bought a 2018 Explorer this morning. It is surprising that Ford have given up, because even if they don't make a profit, I'd have thought they need the employee pension contributions to keep up with the legacy pension payments, which suggests to me they are actually losing money on every *car* they produce. Even if they have no vision, you have to imagine they've done their maths. Alternatively they are hoodwinking everyone and the next US market saloons will be EV's built in the US.Ford announced a few months ago the next generation US-market Focus would be imported from China. Now it appears the only Chinese Focus we'll be getting is the quasi-crossoverish Focus Active. And, I suspect, the only reason we're getting that version is because even Ford's executives grudgingly recognise the recently introduced (in the US) EcoSport is sh!t.
This is, in essence, Ford saying to the Japanese "We give up, you win!" Granted, there are plenty of car buyers in America who have been brainwashed into thinking only Toyota and Honda build reliable cars. I have met so many people who refuse to consider anything other than a Toyota or a Honda because they truly believe all other cars are unreliable rubbish. However, this stigma doesn't seem to apply when the conversation shifts away from passenger cars and towards trucks and SUVs. Perhaps this is just Ford admitting that, no matter how good of a car they make, they will never be able to win back the car buyers they have forever lost to the Japanese? Even so, this smacks of being an incredibly short-sighted decision.
Come the next artificially-manufactured oil crisis and/or economic downturn, Ford will yet again be caught with their pants down!
roberthiggs said:
GOOD! Now they will start styling the focus for the European market and make it less of an american blob.
So... the Focus is the future, eh?Two markets: A and B. Annual sales / leasing volume of new "light duty passenger vehicles" is almost the same between the two.
A is larger in total population. In market A, nearly 50 percent of new cars are bought or leased by companies which then provide personal vehicles to their employees. Regions of market A have begun to curtail or ban the ICE, the powertrain that, in pure or hybrid form, is projected to dominate beyond 2050.
Market B buys / leases more new cars per capita. Nearly 100 percent of new cars are bought or leased by the end user -- and these end users tend to pay less for the same vehicle than users in market A.
Market B earns the higher household income. Despite that it makes almost no attempt to ban the ICE, market B is the home of the world's most influential startups for battery-electric vehicles. Compared to market A, it also creates more new jobs and receives more foreign direct investment. Generally, most petrol used by cars globally is purchased in the currency of market B. Market B pays for and provides the decisive component for energy security and national security for market A.
Now. Which market is most likely to influence the future of personal transportation?
fblm said:
unsprung said:
Now. Which market is most likely to influence the future of personal transportation?
China? They can force change far faster than the west. It's far from obvious. As you say Europe already is mandating a slow move toward HEV. Who knows which path the US will take. fblm said:
No one wants small cars in the US. Small = crappy. It will take a very, very long time to change that perception.
Small cars are popular in LA. Last year I was commuting the freeways of the city and was shocked at the amount of small cars since my last visit 20 years previous. Just that they were mainly Japanese or Korean. In fact I found it weird not to see many muscle cars both old and modern.
I couldn't wait to get back to my Mustang back in the UK.
unsprung said:
I'll take the Chimerica of Niall Ferguson. But it won't be the likes of a "better" stylised Focus and the aforementioned market A.
In what sense; married or divorced? But agreed, if the C-platform can look as diverse as an mkc, c-max, focus, escape, kuga or transit connect then the Focus could already look ''better'' if Ford thought that was the problem.croyde said:
Small cars are popular in LA.
They might be numerous but I've never actually met an American who wants one! I concede Californians might. They're weird. I saw literally hundreds of Tesla's driving from San Fran to Laguna Seca a couple of months ago but not many compact cars to make any impression.fblm said:
unsprung said:
I'll take the Chimerica of Niall Ferguson. But it won't be the likes of a "better" stylised Focus and the aforementioned market A.
In what sense; married or divorced? But agreed, if the C-platform can look as diverse as an mkc, c-max, focus, escape, kuga or transit connect then the Focus could already look ''better'' if Ford thought that was the problem.China will not be, however, the market where middle and upper class consumers decide, through their behaviours and chosen lifestyles, the future of personal transportation. A disproportionate amount of that will come from the aforementioned market B.
There are hints that we've "seen this movie before". Look back at the trajectories of iOS, Android, and related hardware.
unsprung said:
...the market where middle and upper class consumers decide, through their behaviours and chosen lifestyles, the future of personal transportation. A disproportionate amount of that will come from the aforementioned market B....
Absolutely. IMO the reason it's not a simple question to answer in that there's a chance legislation drives the change faster in ROW than consumer choice does. China could easily mandate the most aggressive EV move, Europe is already heading down the HEV route, right now US consumer choice is saying ok I can live with FWD and 2 fewer cylinders... fblm said:
unsprung said:
...the market where middle and upper class consumers decide, through their behaviours and chosen lifestyles, the future of personal transportation. A disproportionate amount of that will come from the aforementioned market B....
Absolutely. IMO the reason it's not a simple question to answer in that there's a chance legislation drives the change faster in ROW than consumer choice does. China could easily mandate the most aggressive EV move, Europe is already heading down the HEV route, right now US consumer choice is saying ok I can live with FWD and 2 fewer cylinders... unsprung said:
fblm said:
unsprung said:
...the market where middle and upper class consumers decide, through their behaviours and chosen lifestyles, the future of personal transportation. A disproportionate amount of that will come from the aforementioned market B....
Absolutely. IMO the reason it's not a simple question to answer in that there's a chance legislation drives the change faster in ROW than consumer choice does. China could easily mandate the most aggressive EV move, Europe is already heading down the HEV route, right now US consumer choice is saying ok I can live with FWD and 2 fewer cylinders... The Hypno-Toad said:
There are all already very strong rumours that the Mondeo is to be dropped kicked at end of the year....
Wouldn’t be surprised. I hardly see Mondeos any more... I reckon they’re just too damn big. Probably because the Focus is big enough to do what the Mondeo used to.Gone the same way as the Omega and Scorpio...
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