RE: Ford drops hatches from US line up
Discussion
rossub said:
The Hypno-Toad said:
There are all already very strong rumours that the Mondeo is to be dropped kicked at end of the year....
Wouldn’t be surprised. I hardly see Mondeos any more... I reckon they’re just too damn big. Probably because the Focus is big enough to do what the Mondeo used to.Gone the same way as the Omega and Scorpio...
There are a few Mondeos in our works car park.
The Focus has a small boot.
I think this is a smart move. Ford sees the writing on the wall. Whilst 200,000+ unit sales of the Fusion are impressive, I wonder what % of those sales were to fleet buyers? I live in Los Angeles, regularly rent from various car rental agencies and see nothing but a sea of Fusions and Fusion Hybrids left on the lot as people prefer to pick up a Nissan Rogue (aka the X-Trail in the UK) or a Ford Escape (aka the Kuga) - As fleet sales continue to decline at double digit speeds, Ford just couldn't see a future in the model. Once those fleet buyers start listening to customers who prefer crossovers and SUV's - the Fusion has had it. So best to pre-empt that and invest wisely now. The Taurus is a terrible, decade old model and the Fiesta has never been popular here. The Focus in the US has been dogged with huge transmission issues and it's hurt the brand.
I'm car shopping right now and a crossover/SUV is top of my list. Why? Because the fuel economy deficit is pretty negligible. I'm currently renting a brand spanking new Mazda CX-5 and we're getting 27mpg avg. Thats not great by euro-standards but pretty good for the US and LA traffic. I'm 6ft2, my partner is 6ft4,I like the space and comfort of a crossover. If the range of wagons/estate cars was better here, I'd defo be looking at that as I love a good estate but theres' only a handful of models to choose from and they command huge price premiums. I also guarantee that if fuel prices were to creep up, Americans would not be running back to cheapbox sedans. They'd be running to hybrid SUVs.
I'm car shopping right now and a crossover/SUV is top of my list. Why? Because the fuel economy deficit is pretty negligible. I'm currently renting a brand spanking new Mazda CX-5 and we're getting 27mpg avg. Thats not great by euro-standards but pretty good for the US and LA traffic. I'm 6ft2, my partner is 6ft4,I like the space and comfort of a crossover. If the range of wagons/estate cars was better here, I'd defo be looking at that as I love a good estate but theres' only a handful of models to choose from and they command huge price premiums. I also guarantee that if fuel prices were to creep up, Americans would not be running back to cheapbox sedans. They'd be running to hybrid SUVs.
fblm said:
IME in the US people don't want a compact/mid size they want an SUV; as they're already buying a car they don't want they act rationally and buy the best value which is Korean/Japanese. When people are buying something they want they don't act rationally, the Explorer comes close to last in just about every comparison of big SUV's, beaten by a number of cheaper better equipped and more capable rivals but is consistently the biggest seller. I just bought a 2018 Explorer this morning. It is surprising that Ford have given up, because even if they don't make a profit, I'd have thought they need the employee pension contributions to keep up with the legacy pension payments, which suggests to me they are actually losing money on every *car* they produce. Even if they have no vision, you have to imagine they've done their maths. Alternatively they are hoodwinking everyone and the next US market saloons will be EV's built in the US.
I think the Explorer is still pretty popular because most North American towns have a Ford dealership and cheap to fix etc. One benefit vs. any of the Asian competition though is that the Explorer actually has some luggage space when all 7 seats are in use whilst being more stylish than something like a Dodge Grand Caravan and having AWD. The 3.5 V6 Ecoboost engine is also pretty potent for the class.Having lived in North America for a few years, I'm a little dismayed by this. Yes, trucks and SUVs are still popular but not everyone wants or needs AWD/4WD, particularly in warmer climes and they're still expensive. I knew plenty of people who ran compact cars as commuters and they're still more efficient and easier to park in the cities. Granted, it doesn't surprise me that they're dropping the Fiesta over there, as subcompacts aren't big sellers and not much cheaper than the Focus but the compact car market is still huge and Mazda 3, Civic, Corolla and Elantra are Mazda, Honda, Toyota and Hyundai's bestsellers respectively. All these manufacturers sell SUVs/crossovers too and trucks in Toyota's case. Despite being a favourite in Europe, Focus has never sold quite as well over there. We all know that Fiesta/Focus are good cars and amongst the best-in-class dynamically but perhaps the poor reliability of the default Powersh** transmission hurt them over there? Stick a conventional six-speed torque convertor automatic in there and it might have done OK, as GM sell plenty of Chevrolet Cruzes in comparison.
Fusion is right up there with Accord/Camry in terms of sales, so that's a little puzzling and Taurus is the new Crown Vic, so seems to be the default Police car right now.
There must be a business case for the decision but up until this point, Ford probably had one of the best and most complete ranges in North America. Ford is supposed to be an everyman brand but without its cars, the price of entry has gone up significantly and if I was a North American consumer, then I would feel a bit let down and feel more inclined to switch my allegiance to GM products instead. That being said, I can see Chrysler/Dodge doing the same thing. They have already axed their compact and mid-size cars and I can't see them replacing the Chrysler 300/Dodge Charger/Challenger when they reach the end of their life cycles.
podwin said:
Hugh Jarse is spot on.
This talk about a Golf does everything you need it to and you don't need a crossover is BS from my own point of view.
I had a Golf, it was cramped, I couldn't fit anything in it, it was so bloody low I used to fall over on top of my young child bending down so bloody low to fasten her in.
I cracked the sump, snapped a spring and bent an alloy, because it is so low it can't cope with Pot Holes, speed bumps or the odd kerb.
AND, it got 45-47 mpg, less than the Qashqai I replaced it with.
The Qashqai has more space and nothing has ever broke and it is more economical (just at 50 mpg).
So this talk of Crossover tax etc is just BS from my own experience.
Can I just say, what the bloody hell were you doing with a Golf to crack the sump?! My last two cars have been a Megane 265 and a Golf R. I've driven both of them all over the UK (and beyond), been into the deepest forests of Wales for Rally GB, across fields and never scraped on anything, let alone got anywhere near the sump. What did you do with it, rock crawling?This talk about a Golf does everything you need it to and you don't need a crossover is BS from my own point of view.
I had a Golf, it was cramped, I couldn't fit anything in it, it was so bloody low I used to fall over on top of my young child bending down so bloody low to fasten her in.
I cracked the sump, snapped a spring and bent an alloy, because it is so low it can't cope with Pot Holes, speed bumps or the odd kerb.
AND, it got 45-47 mpg, less than the Qashqai I replaced it with.
The Qashqai has more space and nothing has ever broke and it is more economical (just at 50 mpg).
So this talk of Crossover tax etc is just BS from my own experience.
On the fuel economy side what age/engine are both cars?
Jon_S_Rally said:
Can I just say, what the bloody hell were you doing with a Golf to crack the sump?! My last two cars have been a Megane 265 and a Golf R. I've driven both of them all over the UK (and beyond), been into the deepest forests of Wales for Rally GB, across fields and never scraped on anything, let alone got anywhere near the sump. What did you do with it, rock crawling?
I would guess a speed bump, or those concrete mayan temple sump crackers, that fall between the wheelbase. Whoever designed and implements those should be worked on with pliers out in the desert.
Hence > crossovers.
Integroo said:
j4r4lly said:
Totally agree. It's such a bad decision I fear that GM have infiltrated the Ford management and are deliberately destroying the company.
Taking out all that production must have implications for plants and therefore jobs also. This may also affect EU workers as the US will protect it's own interests first at the expense of the European facilities.
Whilst SUV's are practical and currently the flavor of the month, many people still want a typical 3-box saloon or hatchback vehicle. Giving up the market to the Japanese and Koreans is a big mistake.
No offence, to you and to everyone else in this thread, but I am going to presume that Ford's legion of analysts, economists, accountants, and senior management know more about the business of selling cars than most on this forum, and they think that it is a good decision. Taking out all that production must have implications for plants and therefore jobs also. This may also affect EU workers as the US will protect it's own interests first at the expense of the European facilities.
Whilst SUV's are practical and currently the flavor of the month, many people still want a typical 3-box saloon or hatchback vehicle. Giving up the market to the Japanese and Koreans is a big mistake.
Businesses don't always make good decisions but they are in the best position to make these decisions with the volume of data that they possess.
The American car industry is very prone to disasters, it has a difficult market to produce cars for. one that revolves around cheap new cars and shifting metal out to the masses. Small cars of the past were built down to a unit price, they imported Japanese and rebadged them to try and keep prices down while shifting metal out of the dealers.
The industry thought it knew better than the customer and developed small cars that were better, but also more expensive trouble is the prices started to approach that of the established Europeans and Japanese cars, and people went for them as they were perceived as better than domestic. The margins and perceived quality levels can not be married, its too difficult so they want to get rid of small cars and sell larger ones that can generate more money.
foxbody-87 said:
On the subject of crossovers, what is it about the Qashqai that makes the owners drive so aggressively?
I can't remember any models of cars being driven particularly more aggressively than others, and the QQ would certainly not be one based on my not very statistically relevant observations. I think there are morons in similar proportion behind the wheel of any models.
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