RE: Advanced driving: Putting Reg Local to the test
Discussion
To be honest, everything that was mentioned in the article I do anyway. I haven't had training, just common sense?
I like driving fast and getting from point a to b in the shortest time possible. Years of doing that has wisened me to potential dangers and hazard perception. I taught myself to heel-toe when I started driving, and I have my road positioning down to a tee.
I can imagine how an inexperienced driver or a non-enthusiast could find this beneficial, but just how beneficial would something like this be to someone like me?
I like driving fast and getting from point a to b in the shortest time possible. Years of doing that has wisened me to potential dangers and hazard perception. I taught myself to heel-toe when I started driving, and I have my road positioning down to a tee.
I can imagine how an inexperienced driver or a non-enthusiast could find this beneficial, but just how beneficial would something like this be to someone like me?
WJNB said:
Great reading & all very lovely with open roads & minimum traffic.
Would enjoy Regs wisdom when doing the same in the always congested South & South East where there are NO open roads,ALWAYS something ahead & behind & every other road user is aggressive & impatient.
Yes, this is something I've pondered too. His youtube videos (at least the ones I've watched thus far) all seem to be on roads with very light traffic, few cyclists, buses, pedestrians etc. Driving in the South East is almost a separate skill entirely.Would enjoy Regs wisdom when doing the same in the always congested South & South East where there are NO open roads,ALWAYS something ahead & behind & every other road user is aggressive & impatient.
My understanding is that IAM and RoSPA both only use police / ex-police drivers to conduct their test. Unfortunately the fact that IAM and RoSPA don't feel able to train people up to a high enough standard themselves to be able to conduct their own tests reduces the faith I might otherwise place in their training.
akirk said:
I recently spent 4 hours with a coach just looking at rev-matching / heel & toe after buying a new car
Rev matching is fairly intuitive, non?I taught myself heel and toe, by first practising at a standstill on the driveway and then on a quiet motorway. Then double declutching. Then both together.
As you say, constant practice makes it become second nature.
The Rospa examiner I went out with didn't like heel and toe at all, though. Ooh no.
hooblah said:
To be honest, everything that was mentioned in the article I do anyway. I haven't had training, just common sense?
I like driving fast and getting from point a to b in the shortest time possible. Years of doing that has wisened me to potential dangers and hazard perception. I taught myself to heel-toe when I started driving, and I have my road positioning down to a tee.
I can imagine how an inexperienced driver or a non-enthusiast could find this beneficial, but just how beneficial would something like this be to someone like me?
It is sometimes good to be observed and it can make you think about things differently. I like driving fast and getting from point a to b in the shortest time possible. Years of doing that has wisened me to potential dangers and hazard perception. I taught myself to heel-toe when I started driving, and I have my road positioning down to a tee.
I can imagine how an inexperienced driver or a non-enthusiast could find this beneficial, but just how beneficial would something like this be to someone like me?
Although you can spend a lifetime improving, there is realistically only so much info that can be taught.
Before I did the bike IAM, I had spent time learning about riding and another of time practising riding well. I then absorbed the IAM book. I was complimented on my riding by some of the observers, who were surprised that I'd only been riding for 2 years -Practice, rather than talent. Apparently most people are not very smooth or flowing on a bike.
By far the best part of IAM bike was the test with the examiner.
I went out for a private session, non-ROSPA with a Rospa car examiner. It was quite good, but similar to Bike IAM and a little too prescriptive about control sequences and holding the wheel etc. for my liking. (eg. shifting and rev matching under braking was fine at bike IAM). I was happy that he thought that my driving was fairly good.
Ps. Meeting my wife made me drive better. Maintaining speed whilst not upsetting the passenger (s). She tolerates quite a bit
syl said:
My understanding is that IAM and RoSPA both only use police / ex-police drivers to conduct their test. Unfortunately the fact that IAM and RoSPA don't feel able to train people up to a high enough standard themselves to be able to conduct their own tests reduces the faith I might otherwise place in their training.
I can't speak for RoSPA, but there are certainly a number of carefully selected civilian examiners testing for the IAM. They will have extensive IAM experience (and probably other training too), but they've not had Police training.Is your faith now restored?
hooblah said:
To be honest, everything that was mentioned in the article I do anyway. I haven't had training, just common sense?
Given that the training session under discussion was for a relatively inexperienced driver, that's probably not too surprising.hooblah said:
I can imagine how an inexperienced driver or a non-enthusiast could find this beneficial, but just how beneficial would something like this be to someone like me?
It's hard to know what you don't know until someone points it out to you. If we assume that a number of years as a Police instructor has equipped Reg with a fuller skill set than most drivers have access to, then it's not unreasonable to suppose that he could show you a way to do something better.
hooblah said:
To be honest, everything that was mentioned in the article I do anyway. I haven't had training, just common sense?
I like driving fast and getting from point a to b in the shortest time possible. Years of doing that has wisened me to potential dangers and hazard perception. I taught myself to heel-toe when I started driving, and I have my road positioning down to a tee.
I can imagine how an inexperienced driver or a non-enthusiast could find this beneficial, but just how beneficial would something like this be to someone like me?
The more involved I have become in AD, and the more people I have met who are extremely good drivers, the more I have noticed one thing:I like driving fast and getting from point a to b in the shortest time possible. Years of doing that has wisened me to potential dangers and hazard perception. I taught myself to heel-toe when I started driving, and I have my road positioning down to a tee.
I can imagine how an inexperienced driver or a non-enthusiast could find this beneficial, but just how beneficial would something like this be to someone like me?
The further people progress as drivers, the greater the journey ahead they understand
When I did IAM 20+ years ago I thought I had made it - to the pinnacle of driving, I too would have made your comment at that point... It wasn’t until I picked up that training again a few years ago and went beyond IAM, that my mind was blown by what is possible, only then did I start to see the potential, and rather then thinking I was at the end of the journey as a driver I started to see a long and fascinating road of learning and improving ahead of me - one I am now enjoying travelling...
I used a brief analogy about music above and it is a frequent comparison, but worth using... For those who get to Grade 8 in an instrument, they can play all the notes and they are extremely competent... to most non-musicians they sound professional and awesome, but...
The comparison with a professional, and especially a world class player shows a vast journey ahead of that musician at Grade 8, far from having made it, they simply have the foundations and now the real journey starts...
And so with driving, I have driven over the last few years with some fantastic drivers, their style might differ dramatically, but there is something in common and it is that they have the technical basics mastered, and on top of that they add interpretation - from meticulous digital perfection to more analogue, creative fluidity - their character comes through- it is not something you can define but you can recognise it when you see it... interestingly, each of those people would say that they still see a long journey ahead of them...
So back to your point... I don’t think that the driver exists who has nothing left to learn, if you think that is where you are then either you have no hunger to learn (which is fine and acceptable) or you are yet to understand what is possible...
Either way a day out with someone like Reg Local is a lot of fun - or to test the water pop over to The ADHub forum and join a day out, there are usually plenty of competent drivers who will help confirm your awesomeness, or suggest gently that maybe there are still opportunities to improve (disclaimer - I run ADHub - but it is a free forum, nothing commercial!)
S. Gonzales Esq. said:
I can't speak for RoSPA, but there are certainly a number of carefully selected civilian examiners testing for the IAM. They will have extensive IAM experience (and probably other training too), but they've not had Police training.
Is your faith now restored?
It could be, except I keep on seeing things like this on their local websites (Cirencester, for example):Is your faith now restored?
“Your Examiner will hold a Police Advanced Driving certificate, will be either a serving or retired Police Officer and will have extensive experience from working within the Traffic sections of the Police Force.”
hooblah said:
I don't claim to know everything, but I am curious as to what there is that I don't know. That gives me a starting point. Thanks.
Fair point- def. worth popping onto ADHub and maybe finding someone to drive with... if you are within reasonable distance of the Cotswolds drop me a line...Good article. As an outsider from Sweden, I wish to remind you all in the UK how damn lucky you are that the concept itself of AD and associated organizations exist. As far as I know, this is mostly inexistent in the rest of the world, you only have driver license training (to a very democratic standard for good and worse), and trackday car handling courses.
I love road driving, learnt a lot from RL here on PH and try to apply it and become a better (performance) driver every day. With passengers, I always ask if they have any criticism on my driving, to become better. The fact that the perfect driver does not exist makes driving so immensely interesting, certainly in combination with capable cars. While doing this I've managed to make a few drivers in my social circles become more aware and safer, probably only a faint shadow of the satisfaction some as RL gets out of this 'hobby'.
Keep it up!
I love road driving, learnt a lot from RL here on PH and try to apply it and become a better (performance) driver every day. With passengers, I always ask if they have any criticism on my driving, to become better. The fact that the perfect driver does not exist makes driving so immensely interesting, certainly in combination with capable cars. While doing this I've managed to make a few drivers in my social circles become more aware and safer, probably only a faint shadow of the satisfaction some as RL gets out of this 'hobby'.
Keep it up!
syl said:
It could be, except I keep on seeing things like this on their local websites (Cirencester, for example):
“Your Examiner will hold a Police Advanced Driving certificate, will be either a serving or retired Police Officer and will have extensive experience from working within the Traffic sections of the Police Force.”
I know that we don't have any civilian Examiners in the South West yet, which could explain that.“Your Examiner will hold a Police Advanced Driving certificate, will be either a serving or retired Police Officer and will have extensive experience from working within the Traffic sections of the Police Force.”
I don't want to derail the thread, but I'm not sure why it would it a problem to use ex-Police examiners?
syl said:
My understanding is that IAM and RoSPA both only use police / ex-police drivers to conduct their test. Unfortunately the fact that IAM and RoSPA don't feel able to train people up to a high enough standard themselves to be able to conduct their own tests reduces the faith I might otherwise place in their training.
Least line of resistance isn't it? If I were setting up a driver training program, ex traffic plod would be my first port of call. I do think that everybody should be observed driving/riding and given constructive feedback. It can be a very useful experience.
Some Police forces offer observed drives for over 60 year old.
My Dad has arranged to go on one, although my Mum doesn't want to be observed. My Dad is a decent driver, as was my Mum, although I have not been driven by her in many years.
Unfortunately, the self-selecting model means that most of the people who would benefit from it won't take up the offer and many of the people who do take up the offer are the people who already drive well...
...Maybe I could arrange one for my mother in law?
Some Police forces offer observed drives for over 60 year old.
My Dad has arranged to go on one, although my Mum doesn't want to be observed. My Dad is a decent driver, as was my Mum, although I have not been driven by her in many years.
Unfortunately, the self-selecting model means that most of the people who would benefit from it won't take up the offer and many of the people who do take up the offer are the people who already drive well...
...Maybe I could arrange one for my mother in law?
MC Bodge said:
Unfortunately, the self-selecting model means that most of the people who would benefit from it won't take up the offer and many of the people who do take up the offer are the people who already drive well...
Sadly the truth...I would like to see fines / points / SAC for speeding replaced with a compulsory 1/2 day or day of this type of tuition...
not because those speeding are all bad drivers - but because I think it would be far more constructive than the current system - and certainly some bad drivers would then become self-selecting
akirk said:
Sadly the truth...
I would like to see fines / points / SAC for speeding replaced with a compulsory 1/2 day or day of this type of tuition...
not because those speeding are all bad drivers - but because I think it would be far more constructive than the current system - and certainly some bad drivers would then become self-selecting
It would be far too expensive, sadly.I would like to see fines / points / SAC for speeding replaced with a compulsory 1/2 day or day of this type of tuition...
not because those speeding are all bad drivers - but because I think it would be far more constructive than the current system - and certainly some bad drivers would then become self-selecting
From what I hear, SAC are actually more like driving awareness courses for.many of the delegates.
A long time ago, a (state funded) former employer of mine did send everybody who drove on company business on a 1 day IAM course. I enjoyed it, but many people seemed indifferent to it.
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