RE: Showpiece of the Week: AM Vantage GT12

[LordHaveMurci]

Why is the Vantage so heavy?

I get the V12 has a sodding great lump up front but even the V8 is heavy.

Surely a V8V at about 1200-1300Kg would be a delight to drive.

[JohnnyFive]

LordHaveMurci said:

Why is the Vantage so heavy?

I get the V12 has a sodding great lump up front but even the V8 is heavy.

Surely a V8V at about 1200-1300Kg would be a delight to drive.

I am guessing because that would then make it a Lotus. All the bits you don't have in an Evora are probably the qualities an AM customer values that lead them to making their buying choice.

I agree that a Vantage weighing 1200-1300kg would be a delight to drive, but all the bits you'd have to throw away in order to reach that weight would put the car into a different sector.

[RumbleOfThunder]

JohnnyFive said:

LordHaveMurci said:

Why is the Vantage so heavy?

I get the V12 has a sodding great lump up front but even the V8 is heavy.

Surely a V8V at about 1200-1300Kg would be a delight to drive.

I am guessing because that would then make it a Lotus. All the bits you don't have in an Evora are probably the qualities an AM customer values that lead them to making their buying choice.

I agree that a Vantage weighing 1200-1300kg would be a delight to drive, but all the bits you'd have to throw away in order to reach that weight would put the car into a different sector.

I'm not sure I buy that. Porsche pack in that same level of quality and refinement but AFAIK are much lighter than the equivalent Aston or Jag.

[LordHaveMurci]

RumbleOfThunder said:

I'm not sure I buy that. Porsche pack in that same level of quality and refinement but AFAIK are much lighter than the equivalent Aston or Jag.

That was my thinking too.

[JohnnyFive]

RumbleOfThunder said:

I'm not sure I buy that. Porsche pack in that same level of quality and refinement but AFAIK are much lighter than the equivalent Aston or Jag.

Yes, 911 is a lot lighter than a Vantage, but it's still 200-300kg more than the weight we are talking about, and don't forget the inherent weight advantages of having all the powertrain at the back. I'm sure if Porsche put their engineers to it they could make a Vantage/F-Type formula vehicle at around 1600kg but then it would have Porsche touchy-feely bits (don't read this as a slight on Porsche, it's just the Aston bits that Aston customers like tend to be heavy lumps of metal or leather clad bits and bobs instead of lighter (good quality) plastic mouldings.

My point is that the reason why a Vantage doesn't weigh 1200kg isn't because Aston didn't try hard enough, it's because you can't make an equivalent product at that weight and price point.

[LordHaveMurci]

JohnnyFive said:

RumbleOfThunder said:

I'm not sure I buy that. Porsche pack in that same level of quality and refinement but AFAIK are much lighter than the equivalent Aston or Jag.

Yes, 911 is a lot lighter than a Vantage, but it's still 200-300kg more than the weight we are talking about, and don't forget the inherent weight advantages of having all the powertrain at the back. I'm sure if Porsche put their engineers to it they could make a Vantage/F-Type formula vehicle at around 1600kg but then it would have Porsche touchy-feely bits (don't read this as a slight on Porsche, it's just the Aston bits that Aston customers like tend to be heavy lumps of metal or leather clad bits and bobs instead of lighter (good quality) plastic mouldings.

My point is that the reason why a Vantage doesn't weigh 1200kg isn't because Aston didn't try hard enough, it's because you can't make an equivalent product at that weight and price point.

To be fair, I didn't realise the GT3's were as heavy as they are, assumed they were 1200-1300Kg, not 1400+, makes more sense now, especially with comments above.

[ChilliWhizz]

Great to see good 'ole No 98 get a class win at Spa last weekend with the No 90 up its chuff as they crossed the line.. New Vantage not quite so impressive but it was first outing... GT12 looks a bit of a lump, but cars always look better in the flesh than in photos in my opinion.

[petrolburners]

I 8 a 4RE said:

Snubs said:

So Aston wanted to see fewer Porsches and more of their cars in the pit lane and they thought they'd achieve that by....

.....building a very limited run of ultra-exclusive Astons all of which sold immediately presumably in far larger proportion to speculators than track day enthusiasts.

Do people regularly track these things? I've no idea but my guess would be not. Even if all 100 did nothing but get driven on track, Porsche have built the best part of 25,000 GT3/GT3 RS from the 996 to the 991.1 according to Wikipedia. So i doubt Marek Reichman's 'growing frustration' has been solved.

Or could this have been more about making money on a high-margin variant of an ageing car

This

This x2.

If Marek was so keen on solving his 'growing frustration' that Astons aren't seen at track days, his primary concern on GT12, GT8 and AMR product development should have been getting them under 105db, rather than as far above that figure as he possibly could.

[JohnnyFive]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I didn't say you couldn't make a Vantage lighter, just that you couldn't make one 300-400kgs lighter without taking away the product's appeal.

I can only find reference to 991s weighing around 1400kg, so perhaps 1500kg would be a reasonable target for a Vantage if Aston were to put their minds to it.