RE: Honda Integra Type R DC2: PH Buying Guide

[Hippea]

So many with coilovers though, I don’t know how I feel about that. Does it not ruin the original greatness? It seems a unnecessary ‘upgrade’

[Jonstar]

People put coilovers on partly because honda do not sell the OEM showa shocks anymore. Spoon and koni dampers are well regarded replacements however, maintaining a similar ride to stock.

One of the best bits about these cars is their ability to attack any road and remain absolutely composed, so keeping as close to OEM suspension wise is crucial!

[havoc]

Jonstar said:

The only good thing about these cars increasing in value is it keeps more of them on the road and people are more inclined to look after them.

I suspect the opposite - it's now got to the point where investors are getting in and keeping them garaged.

Plus they're now eligible to go to the USA (25 y.o.), who seem to appreciate Jap metal more than the UK ever did...

[Jonstar]

havoc said:

I suspect the opposite - it's now got to the point where investors are getting in and keeping them garaged.

Plus they're now eligible to go to the USA (25 y.o.), who seem to appreciate Jap metal more than the UK ever did...

Maybe you are right, the USA point is significant and they generally prefer the euro front end to the JDM. Alot of them were stolen out there which adds too which doesn't help.

[Beethree]

Yeah, when I sold my '96 spec a few years ago, that was bought a US guy working over here to take back there.

[horsemeatscandal]

Coilovers shouldn't necessarily put you off. As with any modification, they're a mixed bag. You could get some unbranded cheap ones off eBay, or you could splash out on KWs. I have a Honda of a similar vintage and when I bought it the dampers were shagged, so I fitted coilovers which were a revelation. I kept the original suspension though because I know people get a bit whacky around originality.

Edited by horsemeatscandal on Friday 21st July 10:20

[BenEK9]

Jonstar said:

havoc said:

I suspect the opposite - it's now got to the point where investors are getting in and keeping them garaged.

Plus they're now eligible to go to the USA (25 y.o.), who seem to appreciate Jap metal more than the UK ever did...

Maybe you are right, the USA point is significant and they generally prefer the euro front end to the JDM. Alot of them were stolen out there which adds too which doesn't help.

Do you go about just making stuff up?

In the states JDM>USDM for any jap cars.

It’s not a ‘euro’ front end. It’s a rest of the world front end.
The states got 2700 195bhp dc2 integra type r’s (compared to the UK’s detuned 500). The same nose cone as Canada, Australia, the UK and the rest of the world.

A popular mod in the states is to jdm install the front of their integra’s.

https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/modp-0909-projec...

Edited by BenEK9 on Thursday 3rd August 00:33

[havoc]

BenEK9 said:

Do you go about just making stuff up?

In the states JDM>USDM for any jap cars.

It’s not a ‘euro’ front end. It’s a rest of the world front end.
The states got 2700 195bhp dc2 integra type r’s (compared to the UK’s detuned 500). The same nose cone as Canada, Australia, the UK and the rest of the world.

A popular mod in the states is to jdm install the front of their integra’s.

https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/modp-0909-projec...

USDM Integra Type R's had:-
- non-Recaro seats - you can tell by the separate headrests in a squared-off doughnut-shape.
- I THINK it came with the EU Type R front-end - there's a different (earlier) 4-light front end with smaller more recessed lamps without the sideways 'swooping' on the EUDM front, which is definitely fitted to lesser US-spec Integras...but I'm sure I've seen USDM cars with the swoopier 4-light front.
- 4-stud hubs with different wheels (pretty sure they're EK9 ones) - JDM 96 spec
- the 187bhp engine (i.e. that's what everyone had until the JDM '98 exhaust manifold - the 195bhp claim was on Jap 100RON fuel) - some people claim differences to VTEC engagement, rev limiter and compression ratio, but they're usually claiming the wrong figures for the JDM cars (i.e. they all have a 5,700rpm VTEC cut-over, not 6,000 as some websites claim). CR MAY be different due to emissions regs in different markets...but as the claim is for the US cars to have a lower CR, that would reduce peak power not increase it.
- smaller brakes (262mm, again same as JDM 96, not 282mm as in the EUDM and JDM 98)

(Essentially they're mechanically almost exactly 96 JDM with a different cosmetic look inside and out, so aside from the front-end change a lot of the mods to US cars are the same as those done to JDM 96s - 5-stud hub conversions, bigger brakes, 2.5" exhaust manifold)


PS - the UK got c.1,500 in the end. The "500" figure was the initial allocation, all CW, which then got increased as demand was there.


[/beard]

[nebpor]

I thought the facts were the Aus/USA cars had a lower compression ratio, as they typically run on lower octane fuel

That was never questioned. Be surprised if it was wrong.

[havoc]

nebpor said:

I thought the facts were the Aus/USA cars had a lower compression ratio, as they typically run on lower octane fuel

That was never questioned. Be surprised if it was wrong.

Fair point.

And I think you're right - I've read the same. But as there's so much wrong info in print masquerading as fact I've not wanted to say stuff that I'm not 100% certain on without qualifying it.
(I'd like to think I'm a fair way along the Dunning Kruger curve, unlike your average journalist...)

[Jonstar]

BenEK9 said:

Do you go about just making stuff up?

In the states JDM>USDM for any jap cars.

It’s not a ‘euro’ front end. It’s a rest of the world front end.
The states got 2700 195bhp dc2 integra type r’s (compared to the UK’s detuned 500). The same nose cone as Canada, Australia, the UK and the rest of the world.

A popular mod in the states is to jdm install the front of their integra’s.

https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/modp-0909-projec...

Edited by BenEK9 on Thursday 3rd August 00:33

What am I making up? Calling it a euro front end doesn't mean it's only in Europe, it's just a term!

Edited by Jonstar on Thursday 3rd August 15:36

[BenEK9]

Jonstar said:

BenEK9 said:

Do you go about just making stuff up?

In the states JDM>USDM for any jap cars.

It’s not a ‘euro’ front end. It’s a rest of the world front end.
The states got 2700 195bhp dc2 integra type r’s (compared to the UK’s detuned 500). The same nose cone as Canada, Australia, the UK and the rest of the world.

A popular mod in the states is to jdm install the front of their integra’s.

https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/modp-0909-projec...

Edited by BenEK9 on Thursday 3rd August 00:33

What am I making up? Calling it a euro front end doesn't mean it's only in Europe, it's just a term!

Edited by Jonstar on Thursday 3rd August 15:36

You made up the statement that the US prefer the round headlights. Google jdm integra front end and see the how many results come up from the US for the swap.

Actually, here;

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=jdm+integra+fron...

[Jonstar]

BenEK9 said:

You made up the statement that the US prefer the round headlights. Google jdm integra front end and see the how many results come up from the US for the swap.

Actually, here;

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=jdm+integra+fron...

And that proves what exactly?

[havoc]

Guys, this was a good thread...please don't spoil it.

[greenarrow]

You're right Havoc, this is a great thread generally contributed to by sensible people. Looking back at the 205 GTI comparison, I must declare an interest having owned one from 2003-14. Have never even driven a DC2 but did drive my brother in laws S2000 if that helps. Really they are oranges and apples. The DC2 is far superior as a performance car, obviously, being a whole generation newer and with far superior power and grip. The 205 though, it provides one of the most feelsome driving experiences you can imagine thanks to that non assisted steering. I remember driving a Clio 182 when we had ours and thinking that for a satisfying drive to the shops, I would take the 205 every time.

Also, I am feeling sad as there are three outstanding cars from the 90s which I always thought one day I would love to own, the Elise Mk1 is one and the DC2 the other. The third is the 306 GTI-6, in some ways the nearest competitor I feel to the DC2 in terms of being an outstanding road car for a FWD car. I only drove the Rallye version and that car demolished B roads. Sadly all three have now appreciated so much that I fear I have missed the boat....

The comments about modern hot hatches being too stiff for B roads are spot on too. We have a Fiesta ST150 (same wheel and tyre size as the Mk7 ST) and that is sooo harsh over bumps. The DC2 and the 306 GTI-6 (or Rallye) I feel sure would keep up with any of these moderns on a truly bumpy B Road.

[havoc]

greenarrow said:

Also, I am feeling sad as there are three outstanding cars from the 90s which I always thought one day I would love to own, the Elise Mk1 is one and the DC2 the other. The third is the 306 GTI-6, in some ways the nearest competitor I feel to the DC2 in terms of being an outstanding road car for a FWD car. I only drove the Rallye version and that car demolished B roads. Sadly all three have now appreciated so much that I fear I have missed the boat....

The comments about modern hot hatches being too stiff for B roads are spot on too. We have a Fiesta ST150 (same wheel and tyre size as the Mk7 ST) and that is sooo harsh over bumps. The DC2 and the 306 GTI-6 (or Rallye) I feel sure would keep up with any of these moderns on a truly bumpy B Road.

At one point in time (pre-kids, late-00s) I had a UKDM DC2 and an S2000 and Mrs H had a 306 GTi-6. S2000 got replaced by an NSX a few years later, by which point the 306 had made way for a MkV Golf GTi.

Those were good times...it really didn't matter which car you took out for pretty much any journey!


And yes to both your points
- the 306 was a cracking drive which I enjoyed on many occasions, sometimes wagging the tail more enthusiastically than intended but never getting into trouble! It only really fell down vs the DC2 through lack of a diff and through a lacklustre gearchange (driving position wasn't as good either to be fair)
- The cross-country pace I could carry in a DC2 was ludicrous for 195-width tyres, because it breathed so well with the road. I think a modern CTR / i30N / etc. would only be quicker on wide/smooth roads and on narrower roads only if you had the balls to trust the chassis and grip regardless of how much you felt thrown-around...and I KNOW I'd have more fun in a (good*) DC2.



* as I've mentioned before, I'm nervous about condition/performance of old/tired/aftermarket bushes and old/tired/aftermarket suspension on a DC2.